Building a DIY Music Server

[Nenon]

13 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

How would one like myself be able to integrate this with my existing SJ LPS rails for ATX & EPS?

 

1 minute ago, ASRMichael said:

I don’t use DC-ATX. Direct from SJ to ATX & EPS

Give me some more time... My focus has been to voice the section in front of it particularly for the dual CPU server, and I am not done yet. There is a lot more things I have in mind to test. But the short answer is there is no particular reason for you to use it.

 

1 minute ago, Exocer said:

Now, how does one become a beta tester? I have a very good set of ears (or so i've told myself) 

A production order has been placed already. You can just get one from Emile when they arrive. 

 

Just now, Exocer said:

Did you also power CPU EPS through your new DC-ATX converter?

Yes. It works particularly good on the dual CPU server which can draw more than 200W (close to 300W) at times! I haven't tested it on other servers yet. 

[ted_b]

I know this is DIY. I am more like DIYALAIDRS (DIY as long as it doesn’t require soldering 😀). Am I still good?

[Nsxturbo]

Wow Nenon, I did not see this coming!

Quite an interesting development and sounds like a real game changer. I can imagine the improved dynamics this will bring.

Good times ahead!

[Nenon]

13 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I know this is DIY. I am more like DIYALAIDRS (DIY as long as it doesn’t require soldering 😀). Am I still good?

You are right on the border :). I guess a DIYALAIDRS version would be a popular request. Taiko is not interested of doing more work (they can hardly keep up with Extreme orders), but I am sure we can figure something out. Let's see what the final version would look like. For example, I am currently testing capacitors with screws... they don't need soldering... that would help! 

 

12 minutes ago, Nsxturbo said:

Good times ahead!

Indeed! 

[seeteeyou]

On 1/8/2021 at 7:05 AM, Nenon said:

The purpose of this chassis is to go with a specific DIY recipe utilizing the dual CPU Asus SAGE motherboard for now. If we find something that sounds better, it can be tweaked in that direction. There is plenty of space inside for anything and plenty of cooling capacity.

 

I know this one is only good for single Xeon but just wondering if you or Emile were getting a chance to test it out?

 

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-dominus/rog-dominus-extreme-model/

Quote

Designed for extreme performance: 32 power stages, dual 24-pin, quad 8-pin and dual 6-pin 12V power connectors that deliver industry-leading power efficiency

 

Granted it's meant for that Xeon W-3175X monster, though Xeon Silver with 85W TDP could still work just fine with the latest BIOS release

 

https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-dominus/rog-dominus-extreme-model/helpdesk_cpu/

 

12 DIMM for a single CPU Scalable instead of the same number for dual Xeon, just wondering if that were able to score some points when combined with insane power stages / dual ATX / quad EPS etc.

[Downtheline]

These are exciting developments! I didn't foresee the dc atx converter, but always wondered what a quality one for audio could do. 

 

I have been thinking about the Taiko community case project: I measured my racks and find the current projected size as much too large. I think a smaller case for sage or equivalent size mb and a dc atx converter will allow more people to join in the fun and experimenting. This still allows for best quality no compromise diy servers, but also allows for flexibility of use in different living situations. Living in San Francisco I can imagine some of our worldwide colleagues may have limited space to place such a large case.

 

If it is thought useful to extend vibration and cooling benefits to the ac to dc power supply, 2 cases could be used, and stacked possibly, or set side to side. This would also allow placement of some of the networking gear into the case. 

 

 

I applaud your efforts to bridge the gap between the diy community and industry. I hope to continue participating and learning and picking up more diy skills! 

 

 

[Dev]

Fantastic news and development.

 

I won't be surprised if some manufacturers or Taiko develops an Audiophile quality AC ATX power supply in the future. Intel's dynamic power consumption seems to get steeper with new processor lines. 

 

I am not too clear if the DC power supply for the DIY project is orthogonal to this DC-ATX or they both will work in conjunction ?  

[Jeremy Anderson]

17 hours ago, Nenon said:

Here are some more details on the power supply for the DIY recipe.

 

Taiko has designed a state of the art switching mode DC to DC ATX power supply that is a drop-in replacement for the Hdplex 400W DC to DC ATX. ...

 

Simply put, this thing is so transparent that every little detail of the unregulated LPS matters. One of the keys for this dual CPU build is to provide unrestricted power to the server. And it would deliver unrestricted dynamics and transients.

 

The price? 1250 Euro I am told. Should be available in a couple of months.

 

[Nenon]

16 hours ago, Dev said:

Fantastic news and development.

 

I won't be surprised if some manufacturers or Taiko develops an Audiophile quality AC ATX power supply in the future. Intel's dynamic power consumption seems to get steeper with new processor lines. 

 

I am not too clear if the DC power supply for the DIY project is orthogonal to this DC-ATX or they both will work in conjunction ?  

 

A suggested list of parts and schematics will be provided to make the unregulated AC to DC linear power supply. It would consist of:

Transformer —> Rectifier —> Choke —> Filtering capacitors; or to be more complete:

IEC inlet/fuse --> SoftStart module -->Transformer —> Rectifier —> Choke —> Filtering capacitors.

 

That unregulated LPS will be tweaked to work with Taiko's ATX module. The output of the unregulated LPS goes to the input of Taiko's module. And we would have:

IEC inlet/fuse --> SoftStart module -->Transformer —> Rectifier —> Choke —> Filtering capacitors --> Taiko ATX.

 

The Taiko ATX module has two 8-pin EPS connector outputs, one 24-pin ATX connector and an Auxiliary connector with (+5V and +12V output) for future use. You will need one or two EPS cables (depending on the motherboard used) and one ATX cable to connect the Taiko ATX to your motherboard.

 

That is the entire power supply. The Taiko ATX is super transparent. Tweaking the unregulated power supply has a significant impact on the overall sound. This is one area where we can tweak things. This is also an area where we can have different versions - a more affordable version and a more exotic version. We can potentially add a solderless option to make things easy for those who like building computers but would like to stay away from soldering. I am sure that would be a popular request. 

 

This unregulated power supply is something that people can do on their own with parts of their choice. Or use the recommended parts. Taiko would try to arrange stocking the transformer I really liked, to make that more accessible (you have to order hundred(s) to get it). That would be the recommended transformer but you can get whatever transformer you like. The rest is still work in progress. 

[dctom]

Thanks for the info Nenon - you mention an unregulated PS to power Emile's ATX, would one be able to use an existing PS such as a PH Sr7 dual rail?

[matthias]

@Nenon

 

I am just curious why Taiko do not offer an AC to ATX SMPS to get rid of the unregulated linear PS or as alternative a second AC to DC SMPS to feed the DC to ATX SMPS.

 

Please, can you shed some light on this?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[Nenon]

21 minutes ago, dctom said:

Thanks for the info Nenon - you mention an unregulated PS to power Emile's ATX, would one be able to use an existing PS such as a PH Sr7 dual rail?

The Taiko ATX is a drop-in replacement for the Hdplex if that is what you are using today. You only need one rail to feed it and that could be a PH SR7 rail if it has high enough voltage and current. 

 

18 minutes ago, matthias said:

I am just curious why Taiko do not offer an AC to ATX SMPS to get rid of the unregulated linear PS

Just to be clear - the unregulated LPS is not a compromise in this case. For this particular dual CPU server where the current draw might be quite high, I see it as a better option than a regulated LPS or SMPS.
In this case, you benefit more from less restricted current going to the Taiko ATX than voltage regulation. The Taiko ATX does the regulation very efficiently at very high switching frequency. You don't really need another regulation before that. Trust me, it's the right design for this project. This is essentially a design by Taiko. All my tests have been done with Emile's involvement.

[dctom]

Would 19v at 10 amps be sufficient the other rail supplying the cpu with 12v at 12 amps  (both rails continuous ratings) - both rails supplying 40 amp transients?

[matthias]

12 minutes ago, Nenon said:

This is essentially a design by Taiko. All my tests have been done with Emile's involvement.

 

Might this very interesting design find eventually in the future its way into the Extreme, maybe with higher specs?

Thanks

 

Matt

[seeteeyou]

If an expensive LPS weren't providing enough current, better be safe than sorry then?

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-97#post-615725

Quote

While the Extreme consumes only about 60 watts during music playback, Emile tells me that the Extreme can consume up to 300 watts during bootup. This would fry any of the bespoke PSUs I have on hand.

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-132#post-623214

Quote

We have tested HQPlayer version 3.x with the Extreme, DSD upsampling using the most taxing filter back then, polysinc-xtr (non -2s), it can run on 1 CPU up to DSD256, for DSD512 you need both CPUs, at which point it draws about 330 watts from the wall. The EC modulators in HPlayer 4 use even more resources, this is really beyond reasonable assuming using a linear powered server.

 

[Nenon]

31 minutes ago, dctom said:

Would 19v at 10 amps be sufficient the other rail supplying the cpu with 12v at 12 amps  (both rails continuous ratings) - both rails supplying 40 amp transients?

It should work, but you would need to try it, especially if you are thinking of building the dual CPU DIY server. 

BTW, the unregulated LPS would not be expensive relatively to regulated linear power supplies. The parts I am using at the moment are less than $1,000 and that is the deluxe version with a bunch of VCAP film caps. 

 

24 minutes ago, matthias said:

Might this very interesting design find eventually in the future its way into the Extreme, maybe with higher specs?

I can't make any comments about the Extreme. I don't really know all the details there, but even if I knew something, it would not be appropriate to share. All I can say is that the Extreme has been called "Extreme" for a reason :).

[genvirt]

2 minutes ago, Nenon said:

It should work, but you would need to try it, especially if you are thinking of building the dual CPU DIY server. 

BTW, the unregulated LPS would not be expensive relatively to regulated linear power supplies. The parts I am using at the moment are less than $1,000 and that is the deluxe version with a bunch of VCAP film caps. 

 

 

Nenon, as You know I’m on build my PSU based SJ, and one rail is 20v 5A, will it work for me on a new DC-ATX?

[Nenon]

1 minute ago, genvirt said:

Nenon, as You know I’m on build my PSU based SJ, and one rail is 20v 5A, will it work for me on a new DC-ATX?

It would work if you don't feed the 12V EPS rail with the DC to DC ATX. 

[matthias]

18 minutes ago, Nenon said:

The parts I am using at the moment are less than $1,000 and that is the deluxe version with a bunch of VCAP film caps. 

 

That would be 2250 USD for the complete PS with the Taiko parts and is then less expensive than the JCAT or Farad solution and probably less than SJ as well.

 

Most certainly better SQ than the alternatives?

 

Matt

[genvirt]

1 minute ago, Nenon said:

It would work if you don't feed the 12V EPS rail with the DC to DC ATX. 

No, EPS feeds from 12v rail straight.

Thank You! Will wait :) 

[Nenon]

Didn't I say that 2021 would be very exciting for DIY :) ?

[genvirt]

After one year home “alone” - we have strength :)

[Dev]

7 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

A suggested list of parts and schematics will be provided to make the unregulated AC to DC linear power supply. It would consist of:

Transformer —> Rectifier —> Choke —> Filtering capacitors; or to be more complete:

IEC inlet/fuse --> SoftStart module -->Transformer —> Rectifier —> Choke —> Filtering capacitors.

 

That unregulated LPS will be tweaked to work with Taiko's ATX module. The output of the unregulated LPS goes to the input of Taiko's module. And we would have:

IEC inlet/fuse --> SoftStart module -->Transformer —> Rectifier —> Choke —> Filtering capacitors --> Taiko ATX.

 

The Taiko ATX module has two 8-pin EPS connector outputs, one 24-pin ATX connector and an Auxiliary connector with (+5V and +12V output) for future use. You will need one or two EPS cables (depending on the motherboard used) and one ATX cable to connect the Taiko ATX to your motherboard.

 

That is the entire power supply. The Taiko ATX is super transparent. Tweaking the unregulated power supply has a significant impact on the overall sound. This is one area where we can tweak things. This is also an area where we can have different versions - a more affordable version and a more exotic version. We can potentially add a solderless option to make things easy for those who like building computers but would like to stay away from soldering. I am sure that would be a popular request. 

 

This unregulated power supply is something that people can do on their own with parts of their choice. Or use the recommended parts. Taiko would try to arrange stocking the transformer I really liked, to make that more accessible (you have to order hundred(s) to get it). That would be the recommended transformer but you can get whatever transformer you like. The rest is still work in progress. 

Nice...

I won’t ask for the details but I am simply assuming the Taiko DC-ATX is all capable of powering the dual Xeon and beyond (for future extensibility). I am also assuming $10k ballpark price that you mentioned earlier includes this DC-ATX ?

 

That reminds me, the cooling solution will only include 3647 ? Or does Taiko plan to release other sockets as well ?

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

I won’t ask for the details but I am simply assuming the Taiko DC-ATX is all capable of powering the dual Xeon and beyond (for future extensibility).

Yes! It's quite powerful, super efficient, and does not generate almost any heat. It has a large copper plate that acts as a heatsink but I haven't seen it getting hot at all. 

 

1 hour ago, Dev said:

I am also assuming $10k ballpark price that you mentioned earlier includes this DC-ATX ?

That is the idea. It's just an estimate, and something I would like not to exceed. I did not know the price of the Taiko ATX when I first mentioned $10K. I learned that yesterday. I don't know the price of the chassis yet either. 

 

1 hour ago, Dev said:

That reminds me, the cooling solution will only include 3647 ? Or does Taiko plan to release other sockets as well ?

I think they have one or two others that might be included on request. But the 3647 is confirmed. 

[J.J]

On 1/10/2021 at 1:45 AM, AME said:2021년 1월 10일 오전 1시 45분에 AME는 다음과 같이 말했다.

Hello, 안녕

 

I'm  following this thread with great interest, I'm fairly new on the forum, but hope to contribute more in the future.나는 이 실마리를 매우 흥미롭게 따라가고 있다. 나는 포럼에 꽤 새로운 사람이지만, 앞으로 더 많은 기여를 하기를 바란다.     

I'm also in the process of building a music server and almost have finished it, I allready started building, before I learned of the Taiko DIY project, otherwise I probably would have waited.나도 음악 서버를 만드는 중인데 거의 다 끝냈어. 타이코 DIY 프로젝트에 대해 알기도 전에 말이야. 안 그랬으면 아마 기다렸을 거야.     

 

Parts used:사용된 부품:

- HDPlex case - HDPlex 케이스

- Asus Sage C621 single processor mainboard - Asus Sage C621 단일 프로세서 메인보드

- Intel Xeon Silver 10 Core - Intel Xeon Silver 10 Core

- 6 RDIMM memory modules with Samsung IC's - 삼성 IC가 장착된 RDIMM 메모리 모듈 6개

- Custom copper cooling for Xeon - Xeon용 맞춤형 구리 냉각

- Intel P900 Optane 280Gb for OS - OS용 Intel P900 Optane 280Gb

- M2 drives for music files on M2 PCI Express adapter - M2 PCI Express 어댑터의 음악 파일용 M2 드라이브

- Windows LTSC 2019 and Process Lasso - Windows LTSC 2019 및 프로세스 라소

 

I choose to use a single processor, mainly because of the added extra cost for a dual Xeon system, the complexity with the passive cooling and the power supply requirements.나는 주로 듀얼 Xeon 시스템의 추가 비용, 수동 냉각의 복잡성 및 전원 공급 장치 요구 사항 때문에 단일 프로세서를 사용하기로 선택했다. The Power supply I'm planning to use can simply not handle two CPU's. 내가 사용하려는 전원 공급 장치는 단순히 두 개의 CPU를 처리할 수 없다.

 

I choose to use a Xeon, because of the 48 PCI Lanes direct to CPU and the sound signature according to Emile from Taiko.타이코의 에밀레에 따르면 CPU로 연결되는 48개의 PCI 레인과 사운드 시그니처 때문에 나는 Xeon을 선택했다.

The Asus board has 4 PCI slots directly attached to the CPU. Asus 보드는 4개의 PCI 슬롯이 CPU에 직접 연결되어 있다.

 

One thing which was a challenge, was to find a proper passive cooling solution for the Xeon.도전이었던 한 가지는 Xeon에게 적합한 수동 냉각 솔루션을 찾는 것이었다. I looked initially at the solution Nenon used for his build, but decided to take another route. 나는 처음에 네논이 그의 체격에 사용한 솔루션을 살펴보았지만, 다른 경로를 택하기로 결정했다. So together with a friend of mine, who also wanted to build a new music server with the same components, we started to make our own cooling solution. 그래서 제 친구와 함께, 같은 구성 요소를 가진 새로운 음악 서버를 만들고 싶어했고, 우리는 우리만의 냉각 솔루션을 만들기 시작했다.

It all started with a copper block of a few KG.이 모든 것은 몇 KG의 구리 블록에서 시작되었다. It was a lot of work, but the result is great. 일이 많았지만 결과는 대단하다.

 

I did a burn in test for a couple of days and the CPU never exceeded 49 degrees celsius.며칠 동안 시험에서 화상을 입었는데 CPU가 섭씨 49도를 넘지 않았다. Under normal load it stays around 29 degrees celsius. 정상 부하에서는 섭씨 29도 정도에 머문다.

 

 

 

 

I have used a HDPlex 400W ATX PSU to test the server and it sounds great, a lot better then my former Intel 7700 build.나는 서버를 테스트하기 위해 HDPlex 400W ATX PSU를 사용했는데, 내 이전 Intel 7700 빌드보다 훨씬 더 좋은 것 같아.

 

I also compared a SoTm USB Card with external clock from my former build with the motherboard onboard USB and couldn't believe that the onboard USB sounded better.또한 SoTM USB 카드를 마더보드 내장 USB와 이전 빌드의 외부 시계와 비교했는데, 온보드 USB가 더 잘 들리는지 믿을 수 없었다. Probably the new USB controller chip is a lot better. 아마도 새로운 USB 컨트롤러 칩이 훨씬 더 나을 것이다.

 

Next step would be a very good power supply.다음 단계는 매우 좋은 전원 공급 장치일 것이다. I actually had a Farad Full ATX prototype PSU on loan, not cheap, but it sounded fantastic. 사실 싸구려가 아니라 빌려서 패러드 풀 ATX 시제품 PSU를 가지고 있었는데, 정말 환상적으로 들렸다. I will write a seperate post on this. 나는 이것에 대해 따로따로 글을 쓸 것이다.

 

I'm very interested in the Taiko DIY project and probably can use a lot of parts from my current build.나는 타이코 DIY 프로젝트에 관심이 많고 아마 현재 내 체격에서 많은 부품을 사용할 수 있을 거야.

 

@Nenon any idea when the Taiko DIY components wil be available?@Taiko DIY 구성품이 언제 나올지 알기나 해?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The XEON CPU HEATSINK you made looks very good.
I want to follow along, but can you reveal the drawings of HEATSINK?