Building a DIY Music Server

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44 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Let me try to give a short response at least once:

The general consensus is direct to CPU is better. But... (okay, I won't go there  ).

 

 

Are there some exceptions to the rule?

 

The SGM Extreme ASM3142 USB out goes through PCH for example. Zero complaints there from many.

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12 minutes ago, Nenon said:

The question was about PCIe, not USB...

 

Ah yes. My interpretation was a bit different...I figured it was more about going through PCH vs CPU direct in general. My comment wasn't USB centric. Storage can either go through PCH or CPU direct, USB chipsets or cards etc. Each would count as some sort of "PCIE" card in the original question.

 

 It was an example of a transport which can either go through PCH or CPU direct so I think it is applicable.

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@Nenon just want to reiterate how grateful I am for all of your assistance (even outside of this thread in PM). My apologies if I came across as defensive.

 

Looking forward to that Taiko DC-ATX 😁.

 

@OAudio I was wondering what other solutions exist if Optane goes away. Are there affordable enterprise class alternatives which fit standard pcie slots?

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12 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

So options for running two PCI cards without a flexi extender / riser...

 

Maximus XI Gene Z390 seems to be my favored option - but the 1x PCIe slot goes through the Z390 chipset and is not direct to CPU.  Anyone got any ideas on how this might affect the performance of JCAT USB XE?  I have to attach the solarflare to the full speed PCIe slot.

 

Other options:

• MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC matx - does have direct CPU 8x/8x slots, but likely no 2oz copper.
• Otherwise it's full size ATX like the Z390 DESIGNARE as previously mentioned.
• or just use the M2 to PCI cable with my existing ITX as originally planned (1x PCIe will be routed through Z390 again)

 

Difficult to know which would sound best!  A mini-DTX motherboard would be great - but zero opportunity there.

Hi Gavin,

The Asus WS Z390 Pro seems to fit the bill although it isn't cheap. Probably one heck of a Motherboard. 

 

The block diagram suggests all devices in the larger PCI-E 16X slots go CPU direct per the block diagram here:

 

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket1151/WS_Z390_PRO/Manual/E14958_WS_Z390_PRO_UM_V2_WEB.pdf

 

There is the QSW though. I am not sure what the SQ impact would be with the QSW in the chain.

 

You can avoid whatever the QSW introduces by using only the 1 and 3 PCI-E 16X sized slots:

 

 

Here is the Asus Sage C621 in comparison, no QSW on CPU 2 but there is one on CPU 1:

 

 

Not sure if the general consensus is to avoid it.

 

Cheers

 

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7 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

HDPLEX 500w linear now available for preorder, it’s a comparative bargain, so have put my order in... so we will find out.

Looking forward to your impressions.

 

16 hours ago, Gregory said:

I was wondering the same.
Why use  filtering before a component that will generate noise anyway? Seems like a waste.

I also wondered this. All components generate some noise. From what I gather here, the noise can be "additive" in that if you are adding less noise before the component you will have less noise overall. This will result in better SQ. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MarkusBarkus said:

...sorry I cannot recall the thread(s), but some have stated that saving your "best" device and perhaps optical "leg" for the end of the line into your dac was the most efficient and effective method of sonic hygiene. 

 

I totally agree. I use my ER (SJ DC3 powered) as an FMC and have it connected to my server via fiber with Finisar SFPs. This was a step in the right direction for my system.

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2 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Motherboard which has true VRM phases (avoid the use of doublers which can affect transient performance of power supply to the CPU).  I believe C621 Sage uses 7 true phases per CPU.  Increased number of phases may aid detail retrieval, due to lower power supply ripple to the CPU. 

Excellent point. I have serious FOMO for this area... as the Gigabyte Designare does use doublers for the CPU VRM. Though, having gone from the Asus Strix Z390-i to the Designare netted a "gain" in the SQ I am going for. Perhaps the additional direct to CPU lanes provided an additional benefit.

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7 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Up & downs in this hobby! Yesterday was a day of downs! Dreaded code 00! Either CPU or MB! Tried all usual Bios recovery and other PSU. 
 

😢😢😢
 

On order Intel i9 1090k & Asus Rog XII extreme. Hopefully my 10a rail boots ok. 

Very interested in your experience transitioning to 10th gen i9. Why have you chosen not to go with 11th gen? Is it the lesser core count?

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1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

My wife asked me? Did you break that deliberately so you could get something new!! & she walked away spouting boys toys & technology! 😂

Dude you just gave me a good idea 🤣.

 

All jokes aside, interested in how this turns out. My desktop is still running an i7 2600k happily and this i9 will become my daily driver when I upgrade... Long overdue for a more powerful desktop CPU/Mobo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

I've used an external video card with my AMD builds. Worked fine with the SJ LPS. It was just an old GPU, nothing special.

 

What about Thunderbolt out to display port? Would that not work with the on-CPU graphics card?

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13 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

I don’t see thunderbolt out. The thunderbolt card has an in. Any how ordered old DDR 2 card. Cheers all

I thought your USB-C ports would be sufficient as they appeared to be Thunderbolt compliant as well. I'm most likely incorrect on that assertion though 😁 (I thought there was an add-on card of sorts as well). 

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1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

Let's understand what it really is, DisplayPort Alt Mode should require hardware / BIOS support and therefore we don't wanna assume that all USB-C ports are created equal

 

True. The Asus ROG Maximus XIII Extreme lists the following specs so they do appear to be DisplayPort capable, hence my comment:

 

"2 x Intel® Thunderbolt™ 4 ports (USB Type-C®) support DisplayPort 1.2/1.4 and Thunderbolt™ video outputs *

* Graphics specifications may vary between CPU types."

 

Also,

Asus ROG Maximus XII Extreme comes with this apparently : 

 

THUNDERBOLTEX 3-TR Card

"ASUS ThunderboltEX 3-TR expansion card, dual Thunderbolt™ 3 ports (USB Type-C®), DisplayPort 1.4, PCIe® 3.0 x4 interface"

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1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

aren't those expansion ports on that MoBo ports for which you need a GPU or internal video processor in the CPU to work with?

CPU integrated graphics will work .

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11 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

I first ordered this king Asus Z490 motherboards but after delivery noticed that there was no ability to utilize on-board integrated graphics from the CPU (which I desire to use). So back it went.

They don't mention the add-on accessory it comes with 🙂. Perhaps this person would prefer not to go that route.

 

I'd say its worth trying as it is no additional cost to try. If it doesn't work then I will take it away as a teachable moment...TY

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1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

FYI - here's a list of Z490 / Z590 motherboards that either came with or without VCCGT (i.e. no VCCGT = integrated graphics couldn't even be powered on)

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16YJm4L1-ohpL8s-4rLDDDCBZvi97ZYwkc44s7LS5-2Q

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel-motherboards/1746916-1440a-madness-z490-vrm-discussion-thread-v3-13-6-20-a.html#post28432822

Touche! 🙂

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Those are some high temps. Are these idle temps? or are you doing HQPlayer upsampling?

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56 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

 

For now it’s a case of touch nothing & sit back with a pint or two! 

Fantastic. Interested in any i9 9900k to 10900k comparisons you can provide.

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1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

Asus Motherboard Intel Z590, ROG Maximus XIII Hero.....$499.99

I am no VRM pro and may have missed some data points in the recent VRM dialogue in this thread, but, the VRM for the Maximus XIII Hero seems interesting:

 

"The ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero features a 8-phase VRM configuration using a parallel—or "Teamed"—power-stage design. Two Texas Instruments 95410 power stages run in parallel for each phase, which gives ASUS double the power-handling capability without using any doublers."

 

If I had to choose from the above listed board this would be my choice.

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@Darryl R - I have seen mention of the 665P for music file storage. Good performance for the price.

 

In other news, I am excited to share that the new Taiko DC-ATX module has arrived.

I am feeding it the 19V input of the PH SR7T the same exact way I did with the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX.

 

Connected this way using Mundorf Silver Gold 15.5awg wire with additional cotton sleeve:

 

Pin 1 for +3.3v 

Pin 3 for Ground

Pin 4 for +5v

Pin 5 for Ground

Pin 6 for +5v

Pin 8 for PWR-OK

Pin 9 for +5Vsb

Pin 10 for +12v

Pin 16 for PWR-On

 

The long-term plan is to get more of these wires connected to see if this will further improve performance but this is sounding wonderful as is. I would think 15.5awg solid core wire would probably be as good or better than the crappy relatively thin stranded wire in most basic ATX cables for transferring adequate current.

 

Not sure if break-in is complete after just two days but it is sounding very good and improving 2 days in.

 

Will report back with my findings after about a week but so far this has been a very good purchase!

 

Many thanks to @Nenon and Emile.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Nice. Which motherboard are you using to power it and what wiring were you using with the hdplex ?

The Gigabyte Designare Z390.

HDPLEX was swapped out for the Taiko.

 

Have been using the Mundorf for months with the hdplex. The wire is very well broken in. (Since October 20')

 

Only the ATX input on the motherboard for now and the improvement is very noticeable.

 

16 minutes ago, Dev said:

, the Mundrof takes a very very long time to break-in due to the teflon. At least 300 hrs or even more. Keep playing music 24x7. 

 

 

100% spot on and mirrors my experience.

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1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

Do you have plans to use for your CPU also? 

Yes I do. I currently use the Paul Hynes silver DC cables to the EPS input from the SR7T and I think these cables are fantastic:

 

 

@ASRMichael - Yes, in the future I do plan to use it for CPU as well.

 

To conduct a fair test, I would need something similar to the PH wire from the Taiko DC-ATX to EPS. Unfortunately I have no idea what wire Paul uses. When @Nenon completes the unregulated LPS I will likely go with whichever wire he chooses (although I have no immediate plans to go the dual CPU route).

 

So if I were to test, the test would be:

 

19V into Taiko DC-ATX feeding ATX and EPS VS Unregulated LPSU into Taiko DC-ATX again feeding ATX and EPS

Other tests will have to factor in the wire I have available right now, which is the Ghent Gotham JSSG360 cable I used when I was powering the HDPlex with an SMPS. The Ghent cable is good but I do think it would be a step back compared to what I am using now.

 

All worthwhile tests would need to wait until I have a high quality EPS cable IMHO.

 

Would I recommend those with single CPU builds to buy the Taiko Dc-ATX even to power ATX with an existing high quality LPSU rail? Absolutely. The PHSR7T responded very well to this change.

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10 minutes ago, bit01 said:

@Exocer - I thought I had signed up for the Taiko DC DC-ATX but have not heard anything about it since - are they taking orders now and how does that work - or was yours a special case?

 

Thanks.

b.

Yes, it was a special case. I happened to get one a bit early. You should all be hearing from Emile in ~ the next two weeks.

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22 hours ago, JayM said:

 

So, hello everyone, I am Jay! ;)

Nice to meet you Jay! Welcome.

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39 minutes ago, Nenon said:

The real reason I am posting this is not to advertise his classified but to add perspective to some of the things we have discussed and give a real world example of how some of the DIY servers we are building compare to the top commercial products. I thought it would be interesting for people to read.

 

One of the many interesting takeaways from this is it was TAS and the USB card that the difference became so pronounced, justifying the sale of the DIY build. The importance of software and hardware integration is well stated here.

 

I wonder what the Taiko DC-ATX would have done for the DIY build, as it is absolutely a stunning game changer for me in my humble rig. (The change for me may be so drastic because I do not externally power my USB/NIC cards.)

 

@dminches- good luck on your sale and congratulations to the lucky buyer!

 

@Nenon - Thank you for the write up. Have you had a chance yet to listen to any of the larger more recent Paul Hynes builds in your system? (PHSR7T) I am inclined to believe it performs well but have no other LPSUs available for comparison.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenonchallenge accepted!

 

There is no way ANY switching power supply can compete with a truly linear PSU

Would love to be a fly on the wall during the listening sessions! (if they ever do come to fruition).

 

Can we please make this happen? :)