Jump to content
IGNORED

Building a DIY Music Server


Recommended Posts

Talking about Mundorf Silver/Gold wire - Is it possible that this formulation acts as a filter somehow dissipating HF energy that may be riding the DC? The sound with it in just a section in a chain has been considerably affected - lost  the residual  'metal hardness' in favor of more natural tones but with what subjectively appears as an HF rolloff or 'softness'.

 

I installed just a foot and a half of it between the PHD SR7T DC power supply and the HDPLEX 800 DC-ATX converter. It replaces a custom (16AWG) GOTHAM HG01 by Ghent Audio. Unfortunately there were associated changes (cables, connectors)  but I believe that I am familiar with their characteristics. It is my first time using the Mundorf!

My setup was as per the post here:

 

So the change:

Setup 1

SR7T (4P XLR)-->CUSTOM Ghent Audio HG01-->800 DC-ATX (MOLEX 6P)

Setup 2

SR7T (4P XLR)-->DIY MIL-W-16878D--> (6P XLR)-->Mundorf Au/Ag-->800 DC-ATX (MOLEX 6P)

The ATX and EPS to MOBO are the same in both cases (Ghent Audio NEOTECH UPOCC wire)

I wish it was a dial I could set to somewhere between 50% to 90% of the SQ change between setup 1 to 2!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing @bit01

Speaking of DC cable - I am thinking to build a very short unshielded Mundorf Silver/Gold 20(or 24) pin ATX to ATX cable to connect the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX adapter to the motherboard.

 

If the cable were under 6", is there still a benefit to JSSG? I was thinking to do point to point connections for the sake of simplicity.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bit01 said:

lost  the residual  'metal hardness' in favor of more natural tones but with what subjectively appears as an HF rolloff or 'softness'.

Just curious if you have given it enough time for proper burn-in. Those cables go through some ups and downs the first 3 weeks. 

 

2 minutes ago, Exocer said:

If the cable were under 6", is there still a benefit to JSSG?

I would not bother. 

Affiliated with Sean Jacobs

Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Just curious if you have given it enough time for proper burn-in. Those cables go through some ups and downs the first 3 weeks. 

 

 

Interesting. Thanks for mentioning burn-in. I will certainly pay attention to it. I only have a few days on it- since this past weekend.

 

34 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Thanks for sharing @bit01

Speaking of DC cable - I am thinking to build a very short unshielded Mundorf Silver/Gold 20(or 24) pin ATX to ATX cable to connect the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX adapter to the motherboard.

 

If the cable were under 6", is there still a benefit to JSSG? I was thinking to do point to point connections for the sake of simplicity.

As Nenon notes, JSSG over that length may not be worth it. It would add considerable stiffness to the cable (resistance to making the short bend from one connector to the other). I will be very interested in any SQ observations you may have. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Thanks for sharing @bit01

Speaking of DC cable - I am thinking to build a very short unshielded Mundorf Silver/Gold 20(or 24) pin ATX to ATX cable to connect the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX adapter to the motherboard.

 

If the cable were under 6", is there still a benefit to JSSG? I was thinking to do point to point connections for the sake of simplicity.


Mmm I don’t know, it is a very noisy neighborhood. I would consider it doing but unsure of how. I wouldn’t do a JSSG just one or two shields and connect it to earth. I believe even John said JSSG is only for digital signal cables.

I did the same for my 1 rail inside power cable, star quad, two shields connected to earth.

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, RickyV said:


Mmm I don’t know, it is a very noisy neighborhood. I would consider it doing but unsure of how. I wouldn’t do a JSSG just one or two shields and connect it to earth. I believe even John said JSSG is only for digital signal cables.

I did the same for my 1 rail inside power cable, star quad, two shields connected to earth.

 

Interesting. So a longer JSSG360 shielded cable of say 8"-12" would be superior to a several inch unshielded variant? 

 

Trying to save on cable when/where possible since it is pricey 😀

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't the motherboard traces pick up considerable more noise? I have a Ghent Audio JSSG ATX/ATX but I do not have a similar non shielded one to compare to.

Keep in mind that the JSSG on the short cable would only cover a relatively small portion of it as the wires need to fan out over the ATX connector.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Exocer said:

Interesting. So a longer JSSG360 shielded cable of say 8"-12" would be superior to a several inch unshielded variant?


??? This is not at all what I am saying.

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, RickyV said:


??? This is not at all what I am saying.

I am not saying you said anything. It was a question based on current discussion. Given your response, I will take the answer as a strong no, that it is not better to have a longer but shielded cable in this instance. Thanks.

 

Either way, I have decided to try the shorter Mundorf SG configuration without shielding. It will be compared to the Gotham 18 AWG OFC JSSG360 cable currently in use. Feedback coming soon.

 

Cheers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, bit01 said:

Talking about Mundorf Silver/Gold wire - Is it possible that this formulation acts as a filter somehow dissipating HF energy that may be riding the DC? The sound with it in just a section in a chain has been considerably affected - lost  the residual  'metal hardness' in favor of more natural tones but with what subjectively appears as an HF rolloff or 'softness'.

 

I installed just a foot and a half of it between the PHD SR7T DC power supply and the HDPLEX 800 DC-ATX converter. It replaces a custom (16AWG) GOTHAM HG01 by Ghent Audio. Unfortunately there were associated changes (cables, connectors)  but I believe that I am familiar with their characteristics. It is my first time using the Mundorf!

 

If you refer to my initial evaluation of the Mundorf Silver/Gold DC cables, I did note some initial loss of treble shimmer and extension but after 3 weeks of constant use the missing treble content returned with added air and sparkle vs the Ghent Audio Neotech 7N JSSG360s that I had used previously. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi Nenon,

Thanks for the really interesting comparison of these 2 ‘mega-switches’.  As a non-lover of audio spagetti I’ve been waiting for this particular data stream issue to get sorted and I think you’ve succeeded in clarifying several questions.  Some time ago both you and Romaz both published hypotheses that these switches were like tone controls and could be used to fine-tune a system to a listener’s tastes. I think this most recent evaluation further illucidates what’s going on in this regard. As far as I can see, both these switches quite dramatically improve the SQ that results from the data stream, It seems that both switches improve certain aspects more that others but that the composition i.e the mix of those improvements have only maybe 70 or 80% in common, with the balance being unique to one or the other switch.   

When you take into account the cost of the switches, a really good LPS to drive them plus 1 or 2 DC cables at the Mundorf Silver/Gold level I believe that investing in both switches will really start to run into the classic area of diminishing returns and that the cost of a second switch invested elsewhere (for example high quality LPSs for other parts of the network, mains supply Improvements, better USB cable or even a better server) may well bring superior results (just my feeling). I have no doubt whatsoever that in the right system, the addition of a top flight switch, LPS and DC cable is highly worthwhile, indeed almost mandatory if you want to achieve really great results from remote streaming. I believe your direction on which set of improvements to apply to which type of system should provide an ideal final step in the data stream.  Personally if after adding one of the switches you describe with LPS  and DC cable I feel that my system still needs further improvement  or still has aspects that require correction I would tend to look elsewhere for those gains. Just my personal feelings on the subject.

Once again, thanks for the excellent evaluation 

I wanted to add an “Of Course” paragraph to the above.

Of course, if you have already optimised the rest of your system then adding a second clock may be the only way you’ll get that extra 20-30% ‘goodness’.  Sometimes, if you want the very best SQ, you just can’t avoid the law of diminishing returns. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

I agree 100%

I tested after Nenon recommended stacking 4 Buffalo and adding Pink Faun clocks.

I started with 1 switch , than 2 , 3 and ,4 

And as you expect it was much better each time.

Than adding 2 Pink Faun Ultra clocks to my 2 switches .

1 brings it to the unexpected word of amazing 👏 

Than second amplifies that .

So at the end I tested if I can take any of the Buffalows and sell them.

NO it is impossible.  Each time the loss in SQ is so strong I cant take anybof the 4 switches away.

I added 5th switch that is Ether Regen as the first from the modem.

And Yes it adds great taste to the SQ 👍 

I use 5 switches now.

Planning to add one more ......

Best

K

 

Are you saying that you have 4 PF Buffalos in series, or 2 PF Buffalos and 2 non-PF Buffalos in series.

 

Best,

Wayne

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Let me be the first one to say it out loud.... this is crazy! :) 

 

Nah...I wouldn't call it crazy until you upgrade all 4 Buffalos to PF Buffalos and then the remaining two to PF clocks  as well 🤪🤪

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I bit the bullet and built myself the Mundorf Silver/Good ATX cable.

 

With @Nenon's guidance I was able to get this to work with the HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX adapter. To achieve this, I have connected 1 of each voltage, a ground and pin 16. I used individual wires of 15.5 AWG Mundorf silver gold wire.

 

Right away, I noticed a less "digital" sound. This is even with a lowly SMPS powering the server. 

 

I am patiently awaiting the arrival of my LPS. This was definitely a worthwhile change though. This is even with Gotham OFC everywhere else.

 

Cheers

 

 

PXL_20201002_035421851_MP.thumb.jpg.6a0923d4bd732247e84f570bf00748fe.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

 CiTE954.png

 

Well, maybe there's a way to demonstrate the differences among switches by using an objectivist's tool?

 

https://deltaw.org/DeltaWaveSetup.zip

 

So far significant differences were found between 2 Linux distros

 

https://www.symphonic-mpd.com/forum/topic/126/deltawave

https://www.symphonic-mpd.com/release/files/deltawave_comparison_20200918.zip

 

And then we've got more comparisons here

 

http://mimizukobo.sakura.ne.jp/articles/articles029.html#001

9FXvX5u.png

 


 

Easy Ways to Record Windows Audio (Loopback)

https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=305913

https://jackaudio.org/faq/jack_on_windows.html

 

We could use ALSA loopback driver for recording audio files under Linux

 

https://superuser.com/questions/597227/linux-arecord-capture-sound-card-output-rather-than-microphone-input/597230#597230

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

This switch business may be ‘crazy’

 

Yeah it's crazy But maybe it has something to do with the difference between analog and digital reproduction.

 

My theses:

 

1. If I play an analog source, for example from a turntable, I inevitably have losses on the analog route via the amplifier to the loudspeaker. No matter how good the cables are, something is being taken away. Be it the frequencies (skin effect) or the speed. I suspect that if we pass 70% or 80% of the original source on to the loudspeakers in this way, that's a lot.

 

2. With a digital source, however, there is a 100% chance of passing the original source signal on to the DAC. This is due to the bit-perfect forwarding of 0 bit and 1 bit. Based on this, optimization measures should no longer play a role. But they do and in my opinion this has the following reasons:

 

2.1 jitter
We can measure jitter and know how it affects music playback. The human ear is very sensitive to timing errors.

 

2.2 Interfering signals, for example high frequency
There are observations that high frequencies can demodulate the useful signal. Even if repeated packet requests are able to restore the original code due to mismatched checksums, high frequency can interfere with other devices.

 

3.3 Conclusion
In my experience, jitter is minimized when there are several high quality clocks in the signal path. Galvanic isolation, for example by means of glass fiber, completely eliminates high-frequency components. Perhaps this is where the secrets lie, why cascading Switches has very positive effects on the SQ. From the DAC onwards, we naturally have to struggle with the analog transmission of the music again. Ultimately, we will never achieve 100% identical reproduction even with digital sources. But with digital it works a little better. 😉

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

2. With a digital source, however, there is a 100% chance of passing the original source signal on to the DAC. This is due to the bit-perfect forwarding of 0 bit and 1 bit. Based on this, optimization measures should no longer play a role. But they do and in my opinion this has the following reasons:

 

 

I found this video to be enormously helpful in my understanding of how digital can be suspectable to quality issues

 

https://youtu.be/grzoqEb2KMk

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nenon is correct.

I got 4 Buffalo switches but sent 2 for the clock upgrade to Jord at Pink Faun.

He did fantastic work as you see on the pictures I submitted few pages ago.

Spering the money now to get other 2 upgrated. I need to have all 4 Buffalows  with Pink Faun clocks. Those are fantastic switches.

I wish you could hear the difference on my system. Night and day difference. 

There is no way to take any of the 4 Buffalows away or to get the 5th switch (Ether Regen) out of the chain.

 

I am glad Nenon confirmed the Telegartner M12 being excellent as a musical and sweetness adding solution. 

I wish I could afford to get one and install in my chain as the 6th switch.

 

For now I Prefer to keep Buffalows with PinkFaun clocks if they give 60 % of performance related to 40% of M12 performance ( Nenon rating).

So as far as I understand it correct

you get little more SQ for much less money.

Thank you Nenon !

Best

Chris

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

Nenon is correct.

I got 4 Buffalo switches but sent 2 for the clock upgrade to Jord at Pink Faun.

He did fantastic work as you see on the pictures I submitted few pages ago.

Spering the money now to get other 2 upgrated. I need to have all 4 Buffalows  with Pink Faun clocks. Those are fantastic switches.

I wish you could hear the difference on my system. Night and day difference. 

There is no way to take any of the 4 Buffalows away or to get the 5th switch (Ether Regen) out of the chain.

 

I am glad Nenon confirmed the Telegartner M12 being excellent as a musical and sweetness adding solution. 

I wish I could afford to get one and install in my chain as the 6th switch.

 

For now I Prefer to keep Buffalows with PinkFaun clocks if they give 60 % of performance related to 40% of M12 performance ( Nenon rating).

So as far as I understand it correct

you get little more SQ for much less money.

Thank you Nenon !

Best

Chris

 

 

 

 

What 9 power supply rails will you be using with the 4 PF Buffalos and EtherRegen?

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...