Exocer Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 5 hours ago, MarcelNL said: Why go USB? If your DAC has I2S input capability the SQ improvement over uSB is an easy win at similar price level. Totally depends on the DAC. In my case, USB is what I should be using. I2S isn't even an option for me. ASRMichael 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, seeteeyou said: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/43/?tab=comments#comment-1088701 1.5 TB version of P4800X turned out to cost 22,988 RMB (about 3,500 bucks) on TaoBao or roughly $5,000 on Amazon https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=603137014053 https://www.amazon.com/SSDPED1K015TA01-P4800X-2Heigh-PCIex4-XPoint/dp/B077BMV9DD Dual Xeon E5-2600 V2 (Ivy Bridge) motherboards with 24 DIMM slots are available for 500 RMB / $150 / £90 a pop https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=632593953534 https://unixsurplus.com/x9dri-ln4f-v1-20a-motherboard-only/ https://www.bargainhardware.co.uk/supermicro-cse-815-v2-configure-to-order Those "ancient" Ivy Bridge-based Xeon processors are worth next to nothing these days https://www.serversupply.com/PROCESSORS/Intel Xeon 6-Core/2.4GHz - 7.2GT QPI/INTEL/SR1AZ_198913.htm https://www.serversupply.com/PROCESSORS/Intel Xeon 6-Core/2.4GHz - 7.2GT QPI/INTEL/CM8063501376200_198863.htm Right now 64GB of DDR-3 LRDIMM costs only 480 RMB, two dozens of them would be more like 11,520 RMB / approximately $1,750 for 1.5 TB of RAM https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=623606011431 It's getting closer and closer to a dollar / GB of DDR-3 RAM now, though it's hard to tell if that were better sounding than Optane (PCIe) or otherwise https://www.crucial.com/articles/about-memory/difference-between-speed-and-latency https://pcper.com/2018/12/intels-optane-dc-persistent-memory-dimms-push-latency-closer-to-dram/ As usual it also depends on the software that determines the performance of RAMDISK https://thessdguy.com/an-nvdimm-primer-part-2-of-2/ Thanks @seeteeyou, I looked into these and they are a bit power hungry when talking about a decent number of cores. Would be interesting to try nonetheless. Perhaps the benefits brought on by having separate CPUs supercedes the benefits of having a higher core count individual CPU... Link to comment
Exocer Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 On 12/14/2020 at 9:30 AM, StreamFidelity said: I also consider low latencies to be a key to increasing SQ. The setting in the ASIO USB driver depends on the sample rate. With DSD 256, 32 samples can be specified as the lowest buffer. Then it is 1.18 ms input latency and 1.50 ms output latency for USB. With LatencyMon the process latency can be measured. I have measured the sensationally low value of 12.20 µs = 0.0122 ms since using the XILINX Solarflare Flareon Ultra SFN8522 PCIe card. My tips: - Check the process latency with every change. Disturbing drivers are displayed with LatencyMon. A driver update usually helps. - Select and configure everything that transports data according to low latencies (CPU, USB, Ethernet, RAM, SSD, etc.) - Disable unnecessary processes I'm not sure if you've already covered this,but, have you had a chance to compare the Xilinx to an audiophile network card? What were the tonal differences if any? Cheers Link to comment
Exocer Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Just now, jean-michel6 said: I am in bed :-) .... but my system is running because I am burning in some mundorf cabling ( by the way this is also a true sq lift ! ) . If several of us are asking Kimmo , he may do it ! It truly is! Currently using it within my modded Buffalo, SJ DC3 DIY dual rail build, and connectivity between the DC3 and ER/Buffalo, and connecting the HDPLEX DC-ATX and motherboard "24" pin. jean-michel6 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 Excellent news Nenon. I am hoping the power supply I just received after months of waiting will be on the list of recommended power supplies! I like the idea of this technology trickling down to the DIY community! It will be interesting to see how the DIY community will have a somewhat similar foundation for these builds, and how the discovery of new tweaks/adjustments will take the sound in different directions to synergize with different DACs, Speakers, cables etc. A wonderful time to be a DIYer! Will start saving my pennies now 🤑 ASRMichael 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Exocer Posted January 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 1, 2021 16 minutes ago, GUTB said: So in regards to linear power supplies -- all these motherboards, NUCs, etc, have switching regulators on them. How much is linear power supply quality really going to matter, especially considering the USB controller is externally powered on a battery for example? The one time I did swap back in the switching PSU I thought the difference was fairly minor. I have a TeraDak 380W. It's plugged straight in the wall socket, no power conditioning. Going from an SMPS to a PH SR7T was a major improvement for me. Once you hear it, it cannot be unheard. This is with using the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX adapter (also uses switching regulators. I do not have a JCAT Femto USB XE but once I buy one I will conduct some comparisons for the sake of knowledge if anyone is interested: JCAT Femto USB XE Powered by External MPAudio ALS-HPULN w/ SMPS powering server. JCAT Femto USB XE Powered by External MPAudio ALS-HPULN w/ PH SR7T powering the EPS directly and other voltages going through HDPlex 800W DC-ATX. JCAT Femto USB XE powered internally with PH SR7T powering everything. OAudio and RickyV 1 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Nenon said: There is of course plans to fill that space with a state of the art power supply. That's something that is still in the works and will be a part of the complete DIY recipe. It seems like there is a lot of excellent technology Taiko is willing to share with us. Excited to see the renderings! Already a fan of the look. Regarding the recipe including an SOTA LPSU inside of the case, I did not expect you to be on board with that, given your previously mentioned preference for keeping the transformers in a separate enclosure. My guess is there will eventually be an internal "wall" option to install, for those interested in building the power supply within the chassis. I will deviate from the recipe with my external PSU.So,the extra space will go unused until I budget for the SOTA internal unit. It would be nice to have one less box and shorter DC cables! 4 hours ago, dminches said: I think having a bigger case is good. As long as it can fit on a standard audio rack shelf I say do it. Absolutely agree! Exciting times ahead. Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Dev said: I am noticing that many are looking to build an Extreme as DIY with all sort of requirements - best parts, best chassis, best power supply, TAS, Taiko USB card, etc. If this is going to mimic the Taiko Extreme as close as possible, I wonder what's left of Extreme ? I am sure Taiko is not going to give away their IP but its good to understand how far apart or how close this build will be from it so that some can decide if it makes sense just to buy the Extreme instead ? Some do DIY for the love of it, irrespective of the cost, some do it for the savings, while many are in both the categories. I belong to both and for me its critical to understand the price to performance ratio. If I need to spend $15k for this build, I would probably have double thoughts on spending couple of grand more and getting a commercial server instead. What do others think ? @DevVery good question! A question many will find tough to answer. @NenonWhile I am aware we are in the early stages of development, I would greatly appreciate if you conducted the following comparison in the future: 1. External DC4 19v into HDPlex 800W ATX-DC for minor voltages + Dedicated 12V EPS rail. 2. SOTA LPSU with dedicated rails (I assume this is the direction things are headed, but you can correct me if I'm wrong here) Yes, the first scenario is a compromise, but a compromise I am and many others may be willing to take if it means saving thousands and having a system within 10% of a system with dedicated rails. Some food for thought. Link to comment
Popular Post Exocer Posted January 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Nenon said: I think I've answered that before. #2 sounds better than #1. But #1 gives you a real ATX controller. It's a balancing act. Yes, 2 definitely would sound better. Thank you. My question was more about how close one can get with two rails and an DC-ATX converter vs dedicated rails in a dual Xeon build. If building dual a CPU RIG only brings you slightly above a well executed i9 rig when you're limited to two rails of high quality power and an HDPlex DC-ATX converter, the entry price may not be worth it for many. If building a dual CPU rig (again limited to two rails) can substantially improve upon a well executed i7/i9 rig with the same power, this journey becomes a lot more attractive (to me). Does a build like this require dedicated rails to truly sing, is the question. Edit: I am still very much on board either way. lwr, mikicasellas and 87mpi 3 Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Very exciting update! Bravo. Now, how does one become a beta tester? I have a very good set of ears (or so i've told myself) All jokes aside, thanks for the time and dedication to this project. ASRMichael 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, ASRMichael said: Sound great! Question from the non technical minded! How would one like myself be able to integrate this with my existing SJ LPS rails for ATX & EPS? Good question. This device should be a drop-in replacement for your HDPlex 400w/800w DC-ATX converter from the sound of it. @Nenon ,Did you also power CPU EPS through your new DC-ATX converter? NanoSword 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, ASRMichael said: That’s the thing. I don’t use DC-ATX. Direct from SJ to ATX & EPS Ah!! You may not need this device then. Now I too am curious. Link to comment
Popular Post Exocer Posted January 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2021 Up until now, I had assumed all linear supplies used regulators. Found this interesting: https://mcitransformer.com/power-supply-basics-part-1-unregulated-linear-regulated-linear/#:~:text=Unregulated Linear Power Supply&text=Apart from that%2C the basic,voltage through a filter capacitor. " Unregulated Linear Power Supply As mentioned earlier and as the name suggests, regulation of voltage isn’t involved in an unregulated linear power supply. Apart from that, the basic functions of an unregulated power supply are similar to regulated linear power supplies. The AC input voltage, just like a regulated power supply, is initially processed and then transformed into rippled DC voltage through a filter capacitor. But since the unregulated power supplies don’t have a voltage regulator circuit, the ripples in the DC output voltage cannot be done away with. This leads to voltage sags, which are often reflected in the output. Recap: Regulated Linear vs. Unregulated Linear Power Supplies In short, regulated power supplies using a voltage regulator circuit, convert the AC main voltage into a clean, stable DC voltage without noise and variations. In contrast, an unregulated power supply provides a rippled-DC voltage by only rectifying the AC. Key Differentials Output Voltage Regulated – There is no variation in the output voltage of regulated power supplies irrespective of the current drawn by the load. The voltage is independent of the load current. Unregulated – The output voltage of unregulated power supplies changes with the output current, mainly because of the high internal resistance of the power supply. Applications Regulated – Application areas of a regulated power supply include TVs, computers, and other highly sensitive electronic devices where voltage variations can be fatal. Unregulated – Electrical devices like LED lamps and DC motors that are not so sensitive to voltage fluctuations can use unregulated power supplies. Cost Regulated – Regulated power supplies are comparatively expensive as they integrate voltage regulation circuits. Unregulated – Unregulated power supplies are low-priced due to fewer component requirements." MarcelNL and Nenon 2 Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Very excited about the unregulated approach. When funds allow, I will likely end up building the unregulated supply to feed the Taiko DC-DC converter. It will be interesting to compare SQ with the PHSR7T vs the unregulated supply. The SR7T is no slouch, but, I would guess the unregulated supply would provide a "less restricted" means of keeping up with sudden power demands. Plus, we will get @Nenon's voicing if we follow the exact recipe. Very interested in how that would translate to my system... NanoSword 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 @Nenonyou mentioned the need to use 1 EPS input or 2 depending on the motherboard used. Does the Asus C621 Sage most of us will be using require one or two EPS inputs with dual CPUs installed? Going to try and get a head start on cabling... Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 27 minutes ago, Nenon said: Taiko Audio DC-DC ATX pre-order form: https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=wAyHaKEU5EWxi4f_4gJE6LY6WJsC4qJJgufOWga3mOJUNlZSMDhBOEs5NVBVUDFKRENINlQzOVlZOCQlQCN0PWcu I'm on the list! Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 @Nenon, when you say peak power consumption of your dual Xeon build hovered around 200-300W, this would be from the 12v rail I would assume. How long were those transient peaks? Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Nenon said: No, that's on the AC end. Last I checked the 12V EPS rail, it was constant ~7A. That of course depends on the OS, load, how you are using the computer, etc. Thanks for clearing that up! My guess is I will also linger around 7A as I do not upsample. Nenon 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Very interesting @Nenon. 7 hours ago, Nenon said: Yes, I did. My Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS had more depth and more air. The Taiko solution was faster and more transparent. Was the SJ used through the Taiko DC-ATX or was it powering the CPU directly with separate 12v rail feeding the DC-ATX unit? And/or did you compare both scenarios above with the same results? Up until now, it was understand by many that using a single rail "could" result in more audible noise, as more components share the same rail and could contaminate each other, hence the recent uptick in ATX LPSs with multiple dedicated and isolated rails. Very excited for the SR7T / Unregulated supply testing I will conduct in the next few months. I am wondering if the results will be similar to what you've described 😎. With only 10a on the 19v rail, I would be more comfortable powering the CPU directly and the other components through the 19v rail + Adapter. Does the Asus C621 Sage motherboard utilize a separate 12v for the CPU? Link to comment
Popular Post Exocer Posted January 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2021 34 minutes ago, dctom said: I don't know, when you read reviews the emphasis is usually on the DAC often the reviewer is using a lap top or average commercial streamer. On other forums other than here, DACs draw more attention than streamers, just my take on it. The exception being the extreme! This is true. However, I do not agree with what most others are doing with their DAC emphasis. The source and DAC are both important. Feeding a bad DAC from an SGM Extreme...I do not know if any miracles would happen but i'd love it if someone experimented. A great DAC will scale with a great source. An average DAC may be slightly improved with a better source but will not sound better than a better DAC with an equal source in my experience. That being said, I have not done a lot of tests in this space... but I have tested with my Topping and Yggdrasil DACS. I upgraded from a Topping (DX7S) dac to the Yggdrasil with a Rpi4 streamer source early last year. The DAC made a substantial difference with a modest streamer. But with network optimizations and a more powerful music server, the gap between these DACs significantly widened to the point where I wanted to rid myself of the Topping immediately. It is unlistenable to me now. Yes, the Topping sounded much better with the more powerful/cleaner source and network optimizations but the Yggdrasil is A LOT better with the same optimizations in the path. Edit: @Nenon thanks for reading through my typo and thanks for your response. I mean 19v rail from SJ DC4 + 12v to EPS but your answer covers that. Great responses! Thanks for taking the time. Learning a lot! Gavin1977 and ASRMichael 1 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 @Nenon in addition to @JonD's question, can we confirm if it matters whether one uses the Xeon Scalable Silver 4210 or the 4114? I recall Emile mentioning he had switched to the newer 4210's with zero impact to SQ. Link to comment
Exocer Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, genvirt said: I’ve a question regarding AC power cords that better to use with PC and external supply like SJ. I understand a huge importance and influence of power and cabling on SQ and using in my setup a really good and not a cheap cables with all audio component, but here I’m actually not sure what cable to use - some “good” brand or DIY one? Some suggestion what cable work better with Yours setups will help:) Thanks! I'm no power cable aficionado but I have tried the following cables with my PH SR7T: 1. Audience Forte F3 2. VH Audio Flavor 4 ( with cheap Viborg Rhodium plated/copper base AC Connectors) 3. Audio Art Power 1SE with Furutech Fi-28 Rhodium connectors. I preferred the 2nd option. Option 1 was a bit laid back in comparison to the other two, Option 3 performed equally well but performed extremely well with my AMP, so I used it there until I replaced it with an NRG Custom Cables "The .1 CS". These types of recommendations are very system dependent. genvirt 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, ASRMichael said: I’ve tried various exotic cables!!! nothing I’ve tried so beats Furutech DPS-4.1. My whole system runs on these! £400 pm £600 NCF connectors & SR fuse £1000 total. Sold my TQ statement cable, costing far more than £1000! Like my Sablon & Ethernet cables, I won’t be upgrading any cable again. Diminishing returns! I will be building one of these to compare with my NRG Custom Cables "The 5". Will report back in due time! The DPS-4.1 gets rave reviews across the board. Another good bulk Furutech cable is the FP-S55N. Cheaper but not necessarily a major performance compromise (From what ive read). @ASRMichael have you built anything with FP-S55N? genvirt 1 Link to comment
Exocer Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, Nenon said: Just FYI - I prefer this over the Furutech nano liquid: https://walkeraudio.com/product/quantum-silver-treatment-for-contacts/ In fact, I don't use the Furutech stuff anymore. Have done the Furutech FP-S55N and DPS-4.1. I prefered the DPS-4.1 but don't use it anymore. Both of these take a very long burn-in time. I have tried many other DIY cables, including the VHaudio (all flavors) and a bunch others. None of those DIY cable can compare to some of the commercial cables I am using like Sablon King/Prince, Audioquest Hurricane HC (1.5m specifically), High Fidelity Cables Professional Series (only for very low current devices), some of the higher end SR cables, etc. We do need to find a good DIY recipe for power cables. I have been looking for a while but haven't invested too much time/money/energy into that yet. @Nenon Thanks for sharing. Of the cables you've listed, which do you prefer for DC4 use? Link to comment
Popular Post Exocer Posted February 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Gavin1977 said: Is the Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI GENE a decent upgrade from AS Rock z390 phantom itx for 1151 processors? I have the same M2->PCI adaptor that Nenon uses, but am wondering if it's worth me switching motherboards to remove this. I "side-graded" from the Asus Strix z390-i to the Gigabyte Designare Z390 FWIW. This afforded me with two additional direct to CPU PCI-E slots. I also went with one of these to bring my Optane 800P to a CPU direct lane: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0773ZR6L8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 There is now an increased sense of ease going CPU direct with Network, Storage, and USB card. I am not saying the motherboard is of higher quality, but, the architectural differences may be worthwhile. Also, this board isolates EPS 12v from ATX 12v. Good luck! Gavin1977 and 87mpi 1 1 Link to comment
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