Building a DIY Music Server

[MarcelNL]

1 hour ago, jean-michel6 said:

I am also using an optane 32 go card with the Daphie os on it , a nice sq bump compared to running from a usb stick .

Have you ever tried to put music files on the optane drive and running from there ? 

I plan to do so tonight....IF I get Daphile to copy a file to another location ....probably IRL not very practical as I'd need to copy a couple of albums to the Optane drive (16Gb) remove the HDD and listen-repeat...

I expect the results will be almost similar to playing an album from memory with the external drive removed and Optane only used as OS ROM, but we'll see....

 

The hunt for the evasive Apacer ECC Ram continues....what is it that I so frequently end up on a quest for unobtanium...hope this one is easier than getting a Shigefusa Kitaeji Santoku in 200mm.

[MarcelNL]

18 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Apacer ECC ram is here

 

model - D31.23185S.001

 

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/apacer/d3123185s001/?qs=Cb2nCFKsA8prqNusSnCNZw==&countrycode=GB&currencycode=GBP

TA, mate ;-)

 

I'll try check if it fits and will order, plenty of time to tinker now we are entering our second lockdown.

[MarcelNL]

1 minute ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

Thanks for link. 

I don't know if it means anything. The RAM latency is rather average: CL19 / 2666 = Calculated nanoseconds 14.25.

I use CL10 @ 2400 MHz = Calculated nanoseconds 8.33.

not everything works around latency, transistors like tubes all sound different even those with similar slew rates.

[MarcelNL]

4 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

If in the states, just click top right. US in stock also. 

Netherlands here, I had the Dutch subsidiary phone nr on my desk for tomorrow...this is easier!

 

biggest question now is...how many, 1 -2 or 4 *4Gb

 

 

I think it should work :-)

 

MB manual states:

4 x DDR4 DIMM sockets supporting up to 64 GB of system memory Dual channel memory architecture Support for DDR4 2933/2667/2400/2133 MHz memory modules Support for ECC Un-buffered DIMM 1Rx8/2Rx8 memory modules (operate in non-ECC mode)

 

[MarcelNL]

anyone had to take a dremel to their chassis to be able to use a proper power cord? I find that my nice Viborg pure copper Schuko connector won't fit due to the location of the connector in the chassis 🥵 

[MarcelNL]

5 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

I am also using an optane 32 go card with the Daphie os on it , a nice sq bump compared to running from a usb stick .

Have you ever tried to put music files on the optane drive and running from there ? 

 

I am comparing the two, and with somewhat surprising, well baffling rather,  results. 

All fairly quick comparisons (30 sec or so, with not more than 5-10 sec between them), done using the same track by the late Johnny Cash, 'unearthed' track 14 (alternate take) of 'down there by the train'

 

first round: externally fed SSD vs Optane

SSD sounded more organic, better separation of layers and overtones and a better 'view' of the original acoustics than the Optane that sounded more mechanical, rougher. Mind you, small differences but at this level important ones.

 

Doing that same comparison four five times showed a change and therefore a preference for the Optance, as if it's performing better over time (it was already on for 10hrs).

 

next round; RAM buffer fed from SSD vs RAM buffer fed from Optane:

small difference, almost negligable, hard to tell, no real preference

 

last round; 

SSD vs Optane with SSD power removed

 

CLEARLY better, cleaner, blacker background, more depth in sounds, better dynamics etc., sort of the 'coming home'experience, more organic, rounded yet maintaining dynamics etc, as if a thin veil is lifted etc etc, the usual high end babble of superlatives.

 

So now I'm in a conundrum having a clear preference for playing from Optane....to invest $$$$$ in a huge Optane PCIe disc?

 

Or better, definitely for my wallet, how to automate buffering tracks to Optane when playing stored music ....much like a RAM disc?

 

A second small (affordable) Optane unit could sit on a PCIe riser (that is IF there is space on the MB, that Pink Faun I2S card is WIDE. Currently Daphile shows I have some 12Gb free on the 16 Gb Optane stick, should be plenty for buffering....but how.

 

 

Have to say that without a Linear PSU this bit of kit already sounds better than the NUC with a nice PSU

 

I will make the same comparison later, it's easy enough now I can find both locations with the same track, once the Optane has had some time to break in as it supposedly was brand new so I may be hearing that effect (doubt it).

 

I will also copy the track to another location on the SSD and the Optane from one and the same USB stick so I am comparing  same version....as there are 'some' that say each copy sounds slightly different (and I have reasons to believe that).

[MarcelNL]

5 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

That should be reassuring. 

Just trying to understand your comment. Why would that be reassuring? If there are differences between the two they might 'imprint' like as if it was a 'sonic fingerprint', I expected nothing, was just listening.  

[MarcelNL]

6 minutes ago, dminches said:

your post seems to be comparing the same thing: “next round; RAM buffer fed from SSD vs RAM buffer fed from SSD”

 

ROFL...I SEE....will edit my post, the understanding reader knew that I intended to say RAM fed by Optane vs RAM fed by Optane ;-)

 

[MarcelNL]

4 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Apacer ECC ram is here

 

model - D31.23185S.001

 

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/apacer/d3123185s001/?qs=Cb2nCFKsA8prqNusSnCNZw==&countrycode=GB&currencycode=GBP

on order :-)

[MarcelNL]

holy smoke, some tinkering in BIOS tells my my route may have to be changes....from a one size fits all headless music computer to indeed the two box solution....Just switched off all USB in BIOS (is switched off during boot, I am controlling the PC via Daphile anyway), a veil is lifted.

 

disabled some CPU power saving settings, manually controlled the CPU fan to start at higher CPU temps etc, now digging into the more obscure BIOS settings....is there a list with common settings and audio related preferences somewhere?  (mean stuff like XHCI and EHCI handoff, suspect many are the same across CPU platforms but for sure there are some AMD specifics in this BIOS)

 

So now up to disabling SATA, for a quick listen...  

[MarcelNL]

18 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

Thanks for link. 

I don't know if it means anything. The RAM latency is rather average: CL19 / 2666 MHz = Calculated nanoseconds 14.25.

I use CL10 / 2400 MHz = Calculated nanoseconds 8.33.

can you post a link perhaps? I'm game for a comparison, a couple of sticks don't break the bank (pun intended)

[MarcelNL]

30 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

Yes of course. But it is not an ECC RAM. I attach great importance to cooling, because I run a fanless PC and the lowest latencies.

 

DOMINATOR® PLATINUM 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 2400MHz C10 memory kit

pls tell me the lighting comes off....I don't want any noisy LED's in that place in my computer build if I can avoid it... 

[MarcelNL]

I recall reading something about that in the Taiko Extreme thread at WBF.

[MarcelNL]

11 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Thank’s for these very interesting results .

 

If I understand well you did get the best sound quality with music files streamed from the optane drive , correct ? 
If yes it means it is even better than music buffered and then streamed from ram ! 

Ideally then instead of buffering to ram it will be nice if we could buffer to the optane drive . 
 

Can I ask how did you managed to transfer music files to the optane drive ?

you are right, I listened to the file from Optane comparing to Ramdisk and comparing Optane to SSD. Optane outperformed all options.

 

Moving files was simpler than I anticipated (as was mounting the drive in Daphile and moving the OS, all was almost automatically, all the better as my linux skills are those of a 4 year old), recall all I had to do was select 'music'as type of usage and ticking R/W and 'share'.

 

Once the drive is mounted/installed using the Daphile file manager it's a matter of copy pasting folders or files to the free partition of the Optane drive, and sitting back amazed seeing how fast the file moves (actually faster than noticeable). The Optane drive has three partitions, one is free (12 or so Gb out of the 14.x that is available on a 16Gb).

 

While I'm typing I'm listening to Underworld Drift CD1 from Optane, sounds sweet, great intro for another lockdown. 

[MarcelNL]

just to clarify, this is not my discovery, I just wanted to hear the difference if any for myself and judge the order of magnitude.

 

[MarcelNL]

7 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

I did managed to copy some music files on the optane drive as you said it is very easy . 
i will do the listening tomorrow.

If it is clearly a sound quality improvement we may be could ask the developer Kimmo to put that as an option .

Either buffer to ram or music internal drive ! 
Great 

Life is too short to wait until tomorrow ;-)

 

I was indeed thinking about asking for that option, but without havin to click an icon, just a tick box 'copy all local files to drive X and play from there'

[MarcelNL]

I need to get me some Mundorf wire, I am a big Neotech fan but I hate the insulation used on it....Jupiter wire is also nice.

[MarcelNL]

switches and routers are my next battleground...thanks for sharing ! (also for the clocks, as the PF clock is too expensive to tinker with)

[MarcelNL]

see what I found in my tinker stash:

(sorry for the head tilting

 

[MarcelNL]

I hate it when yet another rabbit hole beckons me ;-)

 

[MarcelNL]

WOW Mouser delivered the Apacer RAM today after ordering it a couple of days (shipping from TX) does anyone have thought on RAM breaking in? It just arrived, sits in the computer with a track on repeat. 

I imagine that heating up tp normal operating temp does something, but anything beyond that?

 

EDIT:also, does anyone have thoughts on the amount of RAM? enough is enough and more adds noise or is it never enough? (I came from 64Gb now 8, which is plenty for Daphile, it shows I have 7Gb free memory)

 

 

Plan on listening tonight...

[MarcelNL]

1 minute ago, OAudio said:

 

Hi MarcelNL,

 

The most important thing when deciding how much memory to install is how many DIMMs are needed to have one DIMM per CPU memory controller / channel. For instance on a c621 motherboard there are usually 6 memory controllers / channels so 6 DIMMs are needed. For an X99 / X299 there are usually four controllers / channels so 4 DIMMs. Etc.

 

Best to look at your motherboard manual to work out how to populate the physical slots so as to use all available controllers / channels (physical DIMM sockets on motherboards may not nessasarily be mapped one to one to a cpu controller / channels).

 

Otherwise within reason keep the capacity of individual DIMMs low 2 or 4 GB per stick seems OK.

 

OAudio.

splendid! thanks!

 

I checked the MB and it seems it has 2 channels and the manual says to populate slot 1 and 2 when using 2 sticks. I have done so. Should be OK!

 

' Dual Channel Memory Configuration This motherboard provides four memory sockets and supports Dual Channel Technology. After the memory is installed, the BIOS will automatically detect the specifications and capacity of the memory. Enabling Dual Channel memory mode will double the original memory bandwidth. The four memory sockets are divided into two channels and each channel has two memory sockets as following: Channel A: DDR4_2, DDR4_4 Channel B: DDR4_1, DDR4_3

Due to CPU limitations, read the following guidelines before installing the memory in Dual Channel mode. 1. Dual Channel mode cannot be enabled if only one memory module is installed. 2. When enabling Dual Channel mode with two or four memory modules, it is recommended that memory of the same capacity, brand, speed, and chips be used. For optimum performance, when enabling Dual Channel mode with two memory modules, we recommend that you install them in the DDR4_1 and DDR4_2 sockets.

 

[MarcelNL]

thanks, I ordered 2 so I won't be testing with 4. I think my gut feeling is confirmed by what you wrote...less is more. 

[MarcelNL]

cleaner sound, blacker background, more 'precision' and lower level detail, SWEET!

 

 

[MarcelNL]

that is what I am thinking about too, I imagine that storing the files away from the computer streaming them to the DAC helps, if only that connection remains free of noise/signal loss/alteration. LOOOONG ago fiberoptics were poor performers (good old Toslink) nowadays from what I read here and elsewhere not anymore if you find the right hardware. 

Or just write a blank check for Opane internal storage...