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Building a DIY Music Server


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24 minutes ago, genvirt said:

Are you referring to M.2 for storage/data? Or for OS?
 

If storage, that’s a tough question, I can’t imagine many DIYers trying out various M.2’s. Have you considered buying a NAS drive? Or you may even have one. I would use a NAS. IMHO Less noise this way = better SQ. 

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1 hour ago, genvirt said:

Hi!

 

I'm step by step come closer to begin my project.

One of the steps is to build DIY cabling from LPS to my HDPlex 800w and to ESP socket on mother board and all internal wiering (24 atx and so on).

So, LPS to ATX/ESP wires use 6 or 8 pins on end connection, but LPS out use only 2 (1 is ground and 2 is positive in case of 3 pin output). So do I understand right that all wires should be connected as on pic attached?

Just curious - why get 3 or 4 wire that connected to one LPS output pin instead make some bridging on ATX/ESP connector part? Is here some reason (not enough place of pin connector for bridging?)?

When making cable (as shown on pic) - Do I need twist all wires together a bit or twist  ground wires apart and positive wires apart and then twist all for further shielding (I'll going to use shielding that Nenon has explain)? (hope this question clear...)

 

Do it is a good idea to shield 24 pin ATX cable or just arrange the wires: 24 wires separated by 8 for example.

 

I thought too about doing SATA cable for SSD connection - somebody had experience with such kind of cable?

If Yes - it'll be kind of providing scheme and "right" wire gauge? (I'm a bit hesitate which gauge will right for this - regular one is 30, but I thought about 26-24).

(Yes using M.2_2 SSD is preferable from SQ point, but I still have one SDD 2GB and add a new one now not really in my basket:), maybe later).

 

Thanks a lot!

 

 

 

 

XLR 3 PINOUT.png

Post 42, Nenon posted links for making cables. 

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52 minutes ago, m.i.c.k.e.y said:

Don't know if this was suggested already. If you want some nice passive htpc case that can support i9, Xeon, EPYC builds, please check Turemetal's UP10 fanless case.

 

Site: http://www.turemetal.com/index.html

 

UP10 in Taobao: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2oq0.12575281.0.0.5a051debNZtAsb&ft=t&id=590791895684

 

in YT: Linustechtips   EPYC 7551 Test

I’ve been looking at this on & off, the reason I’ve not purchased this is I’m concerned about 2.5kg heatsink sitting on the CPU. Taiko talked about maximum weight certain CPU’s can handle. I use i9 9900k, I can’t find any information on. 
 

Beautiful case, & amazing cooling. To be honest I’m waiting for someone to buy one, but seems no one has yet. 

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15 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

AFAIK the only (affordable) game in town for EPYC should be TureMetal UP10 (5,298 RMB / $775) from China plus an additional 600 RMB for their own custom-made heat sink

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=590791895684

 

A Super Fanless Chassis from TureMetal: For DIY & 0 db Workstations

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14562/turemetal-fanless-chassis-for-diy-highend-pcs

 

TureMetal Builds a Fanless 32-Core EPYC PC with an RTX 2070

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15261/turemetal-fanless-pc-epyc-rtx-2080

 

Dimensions of the motherboard must be under 30.5x32.5cm and therefore UP10 won't work for Asus WS C621E SAGE with 30.5x33.0cm at all.

Hi @seeteeyou, I’ve tried emailing Turemetal a few times & no reply. Do you know if this is compatible with i9 9900k & Asus ROG Maximus X1 Formula Z390 Motherboard? 
 

Do you specify what heatsink you require when purchase?

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18 minutes ago, dctom said:

Well, after initially following the novel way to massively improve thread (austin pop, romaz, et al) and latterly this one, started by Nenon,  it feels like  my two box server has reached something of a destination. Now after around 8 months of development, following all the advice and suggestions, I am getting terrific results - so I owe a lot of thanks to all the many contributors. The build is not as extreme as some of the ones out there but I have managed to include many of the key "discoveries".

The sound quality far outstrips my previous digital source (playback designs MPS5) whether playing CDs or streaming. 

 

The build list

server

HDplex  H5 v2 case

i7-9700T 35w CPU

AudioLinux running from ram

HQplayer upsampling to 4 x DSD or 384k PCM

ASrock Z390 ITX phantom gaming MB

16 Gg Apacer ram

HDplex 800w ATX

OS on SSD (switched out after start up)

2Tb NVMe library storage

Paul Hynes dual rail SR7 turbo, internal silver wired, 12v 12amp(EPS)/19v 10amp (ATX) PS 

Mundorf silver gold internal ATX cable

PH silver DC cables ATX and EPS

 

Via blue ethernet cables, Swenson style shield

Buffalo BS GS2024  mundorf and audio note filter caps on DC input,  HDplex 200w PS

EtherRegen powered by P Hynes SR4

 

Endpoint

NUC i7 7DNBE

HQP naa from usb stick

8Gb apacer ram

Sean Jacobs DC3 19v 5amp PS

Star quad Dc cable

 

Sablon usb lead

 

Lampizator Golden Gate  DAC(modified)

 

It has taken a while to get all the components together, waiting for SR7 etc. The most recent arrival is the HDplex 800w which replaces a HDplex400w ATX. This seems to be making a significant difference from cold, no burn in. My thinking here is the 800w is enabling the SR7 to shine - the 400w was somehow limiting it, even though it is the recent version.

 

One of the benchmarks I use is my very capable vinyl system. I noticed other posters in the thread have made similar comparisons. Digital and analogue are now very close, again as others have found the recording is often the deciding factor. 

 

I have reduced my collection of LPs to around 2k the majority are from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, mixed genres. Generally, a high rez digital rock or classical version will sound better. Bog standard jazz LPs eg; Pablo or Blue Note sound better than the CD ripped version. Really well mastered and pressed "audiophile" albums can sound excellent and better digital. I have around 80 or 90 of these  however I would not put them all in the excellent category.  I don't have a great number of duplicate analogue/digital albums but where I have been able to make direct comparisons it is often hard to choose between the two. For instance I recently purchased the new Neil Young album Homegrown which is a fully analogue vinyl recording particularly well produced. The LP does  sound better than the digital but it is close.

 

Having narrowed or bettered the vinyl/digital gap so much, for me, is a great achievement having been a dyed in the wool vinylista. I don't want to think about the relative cost, the digital set up comes to just over a third of the vinyl system! I guess others have come to the same sort of conclusion when comparing.

 

 

 

 

SYSTEM CONNECTION + bs gs + z390 etherRegen.jpg

Z390.jpg

Z390b.jpg

Nice post! Can I ask what copper did you use to get extra cooling from left side heatsink? 

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

For the 2 Buffalows with Pink Faun clocks I am using for EACH switch :

Uptone lps1 - 7v out, followed by double regulated mpaudio SLS-Hpuln with 10x  LT 3045  for the clocks.

Vinnie Rossi mini supercap supplys with 3A and 5v out to the boards .

 

For 2 other Buffalows I use

Vinnie Rossi mini supercap supplys with 3A + 5V and

Vinnie Rossi mini supercap supply with 3A + 12 v .

 

I know it sounds crazy but planning to update this with Sean Jolacobs DC4 multirail. Just need little more time to collect the funds for that.

You cant go wrong with top supplys.

Best

Chris

 

 

Each to their own! working out total costs! 
 

4 switches 1k

4 PF clocks 6k

4 SJ rails 8k

+ wiring 1k

 

16k plus. I always say if you’ve got the money spend it on Hifi! (My wife says otherwise)


Enjoy & thanks for reporting 

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13 hours ago, Nenon said:

Chris has an amazing system but does not like to talk much about it. Don't be surprised if you don't hear from him, just take my word for it :). 

 

 

@nenon. I’ve noticed over time not everyone shows their system details on their profile. Including yourself. 
 

I’ve always asked myself why is this? Any ideas? I actually find it really helpful by looking at other people’s setup. Really helps. 

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7 hours ago, Nenon said:

I am confused by this question. The Ubiquiti Edge Router is a router.

D-Link DGS-1210-10 and Buffalo BS-GS2016 are switches. So I did not chooses the Ubiquiti Edge Router over the D-Link/Buffalo. I use both.

 

We've talked about this, but here is my story on network equipment and how it all started.

 

Some time ago, I looked at my network, and decided to try a couple of things there. My Internet provider (Xfinity but also most ISPs in the US) send you an all-in-one network device that has at least 4 functions. It's a cable modem, a network router, a WiFi access point, and a network switch. Some have more features like phone gateways, firewalls, etc. Given that it does so many functions, it is:
a. a cheap and crappy device that does a lot of things but nothing really good; and
b. a device that has somewhat high current requirements (in order to be able to perform all functions).
Because of “b” it does not come with a typical 12V / 1A brick power adapter, but you have to connect it to the mains and it has a built-in SMPS. In other words, not easy to power up with a LPS unless you open it and do some mods. 

 

I thought, what if I can find an all-in-one device that can accept DC power. I started looking for one, talked to several people at Comcast/Xfinity, but it turned out there is no device with DC input that is certified by my ISP for my area. This is when I started looking at what other options I've had. And I realized that I would have to use separate devices. It made sense to try that. We don’t use surround receivers that can do everything in our high-end 2-channel systems. We use separates. Let’s try this with the network equipment, which in a way can be considered a “source” for our audio system when streaming Tidal/Qobuz.
I decided to try using a separate cable modem (just a modem without any other features) and a generic Wifi Router. That was an immediate (small) improvement even before powering with LPS. Then I powered the cable modem with a LPS and that was a bigger improvement. Then I tested different cable modems and realized that they make a difference too. There were two modems I liked, but I eventually settled on the Arris SB8200 cable modem that takes 12V DC. 

 

At this stage my network looked like this:
Arris SB8200 cable modem (powered by LPS) --> Linksys WiFi Router --> audio network.
 

The next step was to revise the Linksys WiFi Router part. I tried powering it with LPS. It was an improvement but still noisy. I suspected the WiFi part of it was the noisiest part, so I decided to try splitting this into two components - a simple router and a WiFi access point. I started looking for well designed and very simple routers. I wanted to get something that accepts DC power, does not consume a lot, and it's a solidly designed but yet simple router. The $59 Ubiquiti EdgeRouter seemed really good. I bought one and it turned out it sounded really really good when powered by a LPS. Big improvement.

 

My network at that stage was:
Arris SB8200 cable modem (powered by LPS) --> Ubiquiti Edge Router X --> audio network on one port of the router; WiFi router on another port of the router

 

The next step was to decide what to do with the WiFi. I still thought my WiFI router / access point was generating a lot of noise. The general wisdom in the forums was to galvanically isolate (with fiber optic) the audio network from the router/modem/WiFi. But what I have noticed was that the fiber optic changes the sound, and not necessarily for good. And I thought that approach was wrong in general. 
I kept asking myself an interesting question. What part of my network is my "audio network" and is the cable modem and router a part of it? Absolutely, they are a part of the audio network, so that type of galvanic isolation did not make a lot of sense to me. What I mean by that is that if fiber changes the sound, I should be careful where and how I use it. And also I should consider the upstream devices to be part of my source and treat them as if they were a part of my system. 


This is when I came up with a little unusual solution here - instead of galvanically isolating my audio network from the modem/router/WiFi, I considered the cable modem and router to be a part of my audio network and galvanically isolated the WiFi and the rest of my home network from everything else. In order to do that, it would have been best to have a router that has an SFP (fiber optic) port. This is when I decided to try the $99 Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP. It is essentially the same router as the Ubiquiti Edge Router X but with one SFP port. Both routers sounded the same. The only difference was that one had a SFP port. The next experiment was interesting, though.
 

My network at this point was the same:

Arris SB8200 cable modem (powered by LPS) --> Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP --> audio network on one port of the router; WiFi router on another port of the router

 

But now I had the opportunity to move the WiFi router to the SFP port, which would essentially galvanically isolate the WiFi (and my home network) from the rest of the network. I also had to use a fiber media convertor for that. Connectivity between the router and WiFi looked like this:

Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP (SFP port) —fiber—> Fiber media convertor —copper—-> WiFi access point

I did quite a few tests but quickly realized that galvanically isolating my WiFi was a clear winner. Also, please note that in this set up the power supply of the fiber media convertor or the ethernet copper cable to the Wifi access point did not make a difference.

 

My network since then has been:

Arris SB8200 cable modem (powered by LPS) --> Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP --> audio network on one port of the router; WiFi router connected (with the help of a fiber media convertor) with fiber optical cable to the SFP port on the router.

 

All that took place last year. I shared with some friend and on a couple of forums, and people who tried it liked that approach. 

A year later, I look at people's signatures (systems) and can't believe how many people are using the Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP router. 

 

The Ubiquiti router and the cable modem are not designed for audiophiles. They are in a small, compact, cheap case. People with resolving systems know that vibration isolation on network devices matters. Just moving them to a better case would actually be an improvement. This is how I started thinking about this project - create a better case with the Gaia feet I've used in some of my projects. But now that I am working with Sean, it would be really cool to also add two rails of his power supply. One to power up the router and one to power up an external network device such as a cable modem. 

As I've mentioned in an earlier post, I am doing this for myself. But if it turns out to be something good, I can make a couple of units for people to try. And if I get a positive feedback, we can make it a product. But I need to be careful now what I am posting and obey the forum rules. 

Hopefully my story above makes sense and helps some people to improve their networks, and respectively their streaming quality. 

 

Hi your current network is roughly the same as mine. Only difference is Edge x SFP goes to Ubiquiti switch SFP. I have trunk port down to switch for VLANs. I have inter VLAN router for Edge port to audio network. I agree isolation the rest of your network back to the Edge with SFP is the way to go. 

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10 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/702/?tab=comments#comment-1085485  

 

FYI - they really aren't THAT expensive IMHO and there's only one £195 Duelund CAST Silver inside each Extreme

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/castdcag010-01uf-630v-duelund-cast-silver-stock-p-9417.html

GqoLstf.jpg

 

13 pieces of Mundorf MLytic AG were placed next to Duelund and obviously they're quite affordable, and then we could find 2 more nearby but they're still inexpensive

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_182.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_393.html

XDt8hfP.jpg

 

There's a much larger one on the other side that might look more like Mundorf MLytic HC, once again it wouldn't cost too much in the first place

 

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_236.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_412.html

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-experience.html

oAtnaYL.jpg

 

Duelund CAST Silver seemed to be a solid performer, it's just almost nobody was interested other than Taiko Audio 

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/28/?tab=comments#comment-1078052

In the review it states the Duelund capacitors are $1000 each, hifi collective $210. Quite a difference. Are they the same specification? 

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  • 2 weeks later...
12 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/3594-optimo-atx-truly-linear-atx-power-supply/#entry52874

 

Now that NET Card XE is coming soon, it's only natural to ask a question like this — could some sorta isolation be achieved by binding audio-related process(es) like HQPlayer / NAA etc. to that specific network adapter exclusively? Meanwhile everything else will be forced to go through the on-board Ethernet and then we're making sure that no processes are allowed to access both adapters under any circumstances.

 

Is it really as simple as something like this?

  • On-board Ethernet — IPv4 = Enabled / IPv6 = Disabled
  • JCAT Net Card XE — IPv4 = Disabled / IPv6 = Enabled

Maybe we could even unplug the network cable from the on-board Ethernet at some point, though not really sure about how to keep the remote control part going.

 


 

Let's say it ain't so easy, could these programs do the trick by any chance?

 

https://github.com/falahati/NetworkAdapterSelector

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/bind-windows-application-to-specific-network-adapter-with-forcebindip/

 

And then we've got something else for Linux as well

 

https://nsjail.dev

https://github.com/google/nsjail

 


 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/656/?tab=comments#comment-1053701

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/699/?tab=comments#comment-1077821

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-206#post-655430

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/676/?tab=comments#comment-1063711

 

I expect that not everyone would actually play something on YouTube etc. with command-line based software (i.e. MPV Player + FFmpeg + youtube-dl = no ads whatsoever) like I do, though it's still quite interesting to try something like this

 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/298457-ethernet-switches-for-audio-part-a-list-of-switches-related-info-experiences/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-4598801

 

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/298457-ethernet-switches-for-audio-part-a-list-of-switches-related-info-experiences/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-4598833

 


 

Now the $64,000 question is, do we have anything out there that could (automatically) detect the beginning / the end of track so that all NICs will be disabled / re-enabled accordingly?

I was thinking this also the other day. Having old JCAT card for mobile connection (WAP), and new JCAT for receiving music directly connected to NAS. I’m using Euphony so my options are limited. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
4 hours ago, Csaba said:

The configuration of my new Control PC is shaping nicely and I have been thinking about the following build:

 

Morherboard:  

ASUS Z390-I ROG Strix Gaming mini ITX (familiar to many of you as I am following some recommendations regarding previous builds)

 

CPU:

i9-9900 (not the K version, as I am a little bit afraid of overheating in Streacom FC-10 case)

 

RAM:

2 x 8Gb Apacer ECC RAM (D31.23245S.001) Hope it will be compatible with the motherboard.

Any experience with this specific RAM under the mentioned item number?

 

Boot drive for OS and Roon Core:

Could you please advice a new Optane model, as MEMPEK1W032GAXT is not available anymore?

 

Storage drive:

Would need 1Tb or 2Tb internal storage.

Your kind advice would be highly appreciated and were thinking about M2 SSD. There are cheaper solutions but concerned those will generate more noise.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your advice.

Ref Boot drive. Did you check Amazon?

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