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Building a DIY Music Server


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47 minutes ago, di-fi said:

Nice!

If you have enough Panzerholz left, about the size of your case, you could build an isolation platform for the server à la Taiko Daiza, also with 3 extra tiny Panzerholz feet. Users rave about them. 

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to go all the way you could make 3 copper disks to go between the feet and the platform and CNC a spiral shape in the bottom ;-). 

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/daiza-isolation-platform/

 

 

 

 

Yes, I do have enough left and made one, but without the routed spiral....yet. Currently the server is sitting on it.  Next I'm going to try it under my turntable.

 

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52 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Yes, I do have enough left and made one, but without the routed spiral....yet. Currently the server is sitting on it.  Next I'm going to try it under my turntable.

 

Great idea. I am working on three platforms myself. I like how Taiko put copper discs and foam inserts to further optimize isolation (beside the beautiful spirals of course). Also the little Panzerholz feet with foam inserts are well thought and essential according to Emile. He put 3 under the server and 3 under each platform, I will try make those too. And I wish I could but no routing though!

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33 minutes ago, di-fi said:

Great idea. I am working on three platforms myself. I like how Taiko put copper discs and foam inserts to further optimize isolation (beside the beautiful spirals of course). Also the little Panzerholz feet with foam inserts are well thought and essential according to Emile. He put 3 under the server and 3 under each platform, I will try make those too. And I wish I could but no routing though!

 

I wonder how Iso-pucks under it would influence the sound.

 

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2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Yes, I do have enough left and made one, but without the routed spiral....yet. Currently the server is sitting on it.  Next I'm going to try it under my turntable.

 

Apologies if you already shared this and I just didn't read back far enough, but where on earth did you find Panzerholz in the States?

(I feel as though I've spent enough hours searching the web that my eyes were starting to bleed...)

Nice to see you were able to cram the Nenon supply into the Taiko DIY. I held off on purchasing the Taiko case because Nenon had serious doubts that his supply would fit. I can see it is a very tight squeeze, so his concerns were well-founded. 😅

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10 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

...the server itself has four feet, and those panzerholtz feet also have a metal disc on the bottom. The Daiza platforms do have three feet, as you described. 

2C175DB7-8926-409D-9107-4D6B09690C2E.jpeg

I forgot about the four feet under the Extreme. Strange enough in any other configuration Taiko recommends to use three (the feet w/o copper disc). The footer is not very high so original footers might have to be removed. Choosing 3 is not about weight because these little feet apparently can support up to 1000 lbs. 

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12 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

I wonder how Iso-pucks under it would influence the sound.

 

It will likely partially undo the benefits of the Panzerholz. PH is excellent for removing vibration from inside the component by absorption. The short version: PH does not ‘move’ like rubber hence the benefits for (pitch) perfect sound. A small hard surface for footers is recommended. (But no spike). Note the small outer edge contact surface and the foam inserts that fill the air gap. The foam is sticking out a little and will be compressed under components weight for optimal result. Dimensions of this footer are very strict, changing height or diameter will change the effect. 
 

This is what Emile explained on WBF.

Quote

You need something rigidly coupling equipment to platform, so not an “isolator”. Otherwise they would partially interfere with draining mechanical energy from the appliance. Just trying to “isolate” the appliance from the floor is a quite limited approach. We also, in fact even more so, want to drain mechanical energy generated inside the equipment and applied energy from soundwaves hitting it. 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-daiza-platforms.28666/post-589695

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Panzerholz is the original German name for the impregnated compressed wood product developed during world war 2. It is known today by more common trade names such as Pakkawood, Staminawood, Colorwood, Dymondwood. Its common name is compreg or impreg. These terms will help you locate it in the states. Its commonly used today in knife handles and smaller pieces can be bought from retailers who cater to the home knife making industry. Rockler is one of these. We used to buy the Dymondwood product from Rutland Plywood. Not sure they are around anymore.

 

https://www.hunker.com/12003642/what-is-pakkawood

EtherRegen powered by Sonore UltraCap LPS1.2 -> Optical Cable ->OpticalRendu powered by SGC 50w LPS -> Ghent silver plated ->star quad USB (JSSG360)->Denafrips Hermes DDC -> i2S HDMI (Clocked by Terminator Dac via BNC)->Denafrips Terminator II Dac->Linear Tube Audio Preamplifier->Melody 845M Monoblocks -> Silversmith Fidelium Speaker Cables->Pure Audio Project Trio15 Coaxial Open Baffle Speakers->2X SVS 4000 Subwoofers->All connected to PSAudio P10 Power Plant

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26 minutes ago, sandston said:

Panzerholz is the original German name for the impregnated compressed wood product developed during world war 2. It is known today by more common trade names such as Pakkawood, Staminawood, Colorwood, Dymondwood. Its common name is compreg or impreg. These terms will help you locate it in the states. Its commonly used today in knife handles and smaller pieces can be bought from retailers who cater to the home knife making industry. Rockler is one of these. We used to buy the Dymondwood product from Rutland Plywood. Not sure they are around anymore.

 

https://www.hunker.com/12003642/what-is-pakkawood

Panzerholz®: A DIN 7707-compliant hardened panel material made of a combination of phenolic resin and hardwood with a hardened structure. Acoustic energy does dissipate in the PH. It makes almost no difference if the PH sits on top or is situated beneath the component. But energy needs to be properly transferred, hence importance of the contact surface.


Maybe try : 

We sell WebbWood™, a beautiful dyed hardwood laminate designed to be an available replacement for Dymondwood®, ColorWood®, Spectraply® & Dymalux®.

https://webbwood.com/Phenolic-High-Density/PH-Full-Panel

 

or

 

look for the Delignit brand 

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Sorry all Rockler is not a good place to search. Disregard that idea.

EtherRegen powered by Sonore UltraCap LPS1.2 -> Optical Cable ->OpticalRendu powered by SGC 50w LPS -> Ghent silver plated ->star quad USB (JSSG360)->Denafrips Hermes DDC -> i2S HDMI (Clocked by Terminator Dac via BNC)->Denafrips Terminator II Dac->Linear Tube Audio Preamplifier->Melody 845M Monoblocks -> Silversmith Fidelium Speaker Cables->Pure Audio Project Trio15 Coaxial Open Baffle Speakers->2X SVS 4000 Subwoofers->All connected to PSAudio P10 Power Plant

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Another note fromwhen we used to use this material in our snowboard cores of all places. We found that there are two types of this material. Compreg and Impreg. Impreg is phenolic impregnated wood ply and Compreg is compressed impregnated wood ply. 

EtherRegen powered by Sonore UltraCap LPS1.2 -> Optical Cable ->OpticalRendu powered by SGC 50w LPS -> Ghent silver plated ->star quad USB (JSSG360)->Denafrips Hermes DDC -> i2S HDMI (Clocked by Terminator Dac via BNC)->Denafrips Terminator II Dac->Linear Tube Audio Preamplifier->Melody 845M Monoblocks -> Silversmith Fidelium Speaker Cables->Pure Audio Project Trio15 Coaxial Open Baffle Speakers->2X SVS 4000 Subwoofers->All connected to PSAudio P10 Power Plant

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15 minutes ago, sandston said:

Another note fromwhen we used to use this material in our snowboard cores of all places. We found that there are two types of this material. Compreg and Impreg. Impreg is phenolic impregnated wood ply and Compreg is compressed impregnated wood ply. 

We want impreg right?

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15 hours ago, Jeremy Anderson said:

Apologies if you already shared this and I just didn't read back far enough, but where on earth did you find Panzerholz in the States?

(I feel as though I've spent enough hours searching the web that my eyes were starting to bleed...)

Nice to see you were able to cram the Nenon supply into the Taiko DIY. I held off on purchasing the Taiko case because Nenon had serious doubts that his supply would fit. I can see it is a very tight squeeze, so his concerns were well-founded. 😅

 

Here's the info on where we got it from. It is a lot of wood, which is why Nenon and I split it. They cut the wood in two pieces before shipping. Even then I have excess. Shipping was cheaper with UPS. 

 

DELIGNIT® Panzerholz® is compressed to high density (87 lbs / ft3) and made from European beech hardwood veneers throughout, reliably bonded using a water & boil proof phenolic resin glue.  It is commonly used for tooling and bullet security applications. This material has been found to have desirable characteristics for acoustic applications. 

At our warehouse in Quebec/Canada we stock DELIGNIT® Panzerholz® B15 in size 2130 x 1000 x 20mm (approx. 84” x 39” x ¾”) and in size 2130 x 1000 x 25mm (approx. 84” x 39” x 1”). 

20mm (approx ¾”) thickness:  USD 460.00 / panel

25mm (approx. 1”) thickness:  USD 575.00 / panel 

2130 x 1000 x 20mm, 24 ply, panel weight 132 lbs

2130 x 1000 x 25mm, 29 ply, panel weight 165 lbs 

Additional costs per shipment:

+ USD 80.00 for pallet packaging (required for shipping whole panels)

+ USD 50.00 for U.S. customs clearance (for shipping whole panels)

+ shipping costs from our warehouse to you 

Shipping to residential addresses in the U.S. is tricky.  To ship a whole panel to a residential address, the carrier charges extra fees of US$150 on top of the freight costs. Sometimes our residential customers will pick up at the local carrier’s terminal to avoid these residential delivery fees.  Alternatively we could cut the panel in half (our cutting charge for 1 cut is US$30) and ship 2 packages using UPS.  If you are interested to proceed with one of the above panel sizes, we could investigate the shipping possibilities and costs for you. 

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

Here's the info on where we got it from. It is a lot of wood, which is why Nenon and I split it. They cut the wood in two pieces before shipping. Even then I have excess. Shipping was cheaper with UPS. 

Way to go, you guys ordered a pallet of this heavy material? That’s where I got my 25mm sheet as well, but it’s only 1 hour drive from here. Shipping gets expensive due to the exceptionally high weight. They are great to deal with and it was nice to go check out the place and meet.  Note that their stock is 20 and 25 mm. Daiza is 40mm thickness. But you can double sheets like the Taiko Daiza platform that is sometimes used one on top of each other.

 

https://www.bkbindustrial.com/delignit-panzerholz

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2 hours ago, di-fi said:

Way to go, you guys ordered a pallet of this heavy material? That’s where I got my 25mm sheet as well, but it’s only 1 hour drive from here. Shipping gets expensive due to the exceptionally high weight. They are great to deal with and it was nice to go check out the place and meet.  Note that their stock is 20 and 25 mm. Daiza is 40mm thickness. But you can double sheets like the Taiko Daiza platform that is sometimes used one on top of each other.

 

https://www.bkbindustrial.com/delignit-panzerholz

 

We bought a full sheet, not a pallet. Still the shipping was expensive. It's extremely heavy as you know. The thickness was perfect as I have just enough clearence to close the top of the server with the Mundorf caps installed on top of the Panzerholz. 

 

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2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

We bought a full sheet, not a pallet. Still the shipping was expensive. It's extremely heavy as you know. The thickness was perfect as I have just enough clearence to close the top of the server with the Mundorf caps installed on top of the Panzerholz. 

 

OK, maybe I was exaggerating a little. But I liked very much the image of a pallet traveling with this precious and heavy material all the way from the north to you after first sourcing it of course. Still... I think it shows how motivated you were. Like me, I guess. It seems a fascinating material with an interesting history. I mean using bullet proof wood (!) invented in the 1940's, to absorb acoustic energy in 2020's. (and allready speakers and footers where built with it before that.)

Because of the German name I started looking in Germany then Europe, crossed the ocean to the the US and then realized the company was located almost next door to Ottawa. They would cut me a 1/4 sheet (3 platforms) for an affordable price. Most interesting part I read on WBF how Emile did his research in PH sheets combined with copper discs and the exact dimensions for footers and more very precise details like air gaps filled with foam to avoid oscillations, also tiny holes in the platform and discs and the CNC cut shape.

I hope it works out well for you! 

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On 12/7/2022 at 2:18 AM, Johnseye said:

I was delayed on my build due to a personal injury but made it to the next phase.  The other day I installed Panzerolz wood to the Taiko DIY case, then moved the PSU components into the case.  This was @Nenon's unregulated supply that he graciously sold me after a little begging on my part.  All supply components, including cables were his.  We went in on some Panzerholz and I have a little left if anyone lives in the Chicago area and is interested. It would need to be cut which will involve access to a table saw and some time. The wood isn't terribly difficult to cut using a new blade.  I did break 2 drill bits and 2 screws inside the wood when preparing to install the components.  Everything is screwed down tightly and doing this into the wood as opposed to the case itself made things fairly easy.

 

Does the Panzerholz have any impact on SQ, I don't know.  Too much time passed between listening to the supply in its previous case to it installed on the Panzerholz.  I hope that it does.  The Taiko board between the transformer and the caps is free floating.  I could screw it into the case but didn't see a need.

 

Cables are from Ghent. Neotech UPOCC in JSSG 360.

RAM is from Taiko. Some Apacer stock they had laying around.

Optane and Asus m2 to PCI adapter with Intel m2 cards are all the same models as Taiko uses.

I've added 3M RF shielding to certain parts of the case.

 

There are some small improvements I can make and will over time.  I need to clean things up a bit as these pics were taken just after installing everything.  This build replaces the SOtM modified motherboard I had been using for several years with much enjoyment. That server still sounds fantastic.  I used Nenon's PSU to power it for a while and it pushed it to a level I never expected, which is why I asked to buy his supply, knowing he had recently acquired the Extreme.

 

Right now I'm battling an issue upsampling to PCM 1536.  When using Euphony or Audiolinux with a JCAT USB XE it comes out distorted.  PCM 768 is fine but doesn't sound as good as 1536 direct from the board's USB or to an HQP NAA.  As a result, I'm leaning toward the continued use of an NAA as my preferred best sound.  The NUC NAA is tapped to a SOtM sCLK along with the SOtM switch and tX-USBUltra.  The tX-USBUltra helps in all counts.

 

I can provide more detailed listening experiences of the different scenarios another time.

 

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Very nice. I thought the component needs the panzerholz most would be the Taiko transformer. I understand there is limited space in the cage there. Would it be possible to add a piece of thinner panzerholz say 12 or 15mm to mount the transformer on it?

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1 hour ago, SK8 said:

Very nice. I thought the component needs the panzerholz most would be the Taiko transformer. I understand there is limited space in the cage there. Would it be possible to add a piece of thinner panzerholz say 12 or 15mm to mount the transformer on it?

First of all you seem to struggle with space inside the case and there also needs to be air circulating to avoid too high temperatures. Further I would think a small piece of PH simply will not have the capacity to absorb much acoustic energy, if that is what you try to accomplish (but it looks great though). If you look for isolation from acoustic vibration, very likely it would have an audible effect if you:  

1) make sure all inside the case is well attached but never overtight to avoid damage to electronic boards 

2) install a large and thick piece PH (platform) under the case making sure there are three or four hard contact points, between the server case and the platform and also between platform and rack/floor.

If you are looking to protect from Electromagnetic interference (EMI) better options are relatively thick copper or aluminum walls and mounting plates (flatbar) that will also take up less space. Just a thought.

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1 hour ago, SK8 said:

Very nice. I thought the component needs the panzerholz most would be the Taiko transformer. I understand there is limited space in the cage there. Would it be possible to add a piece of thinner panzerholz say 12 or 15mm to mount the transformer on it?

 

Yes, that is my plan. There is very limited space inside the cage. I will need to cut or route out the Panzerholz, similar to what Taiko has done with the Extreme. Not an easy task. I likely won't get to it until Jan or Feb. 

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47 minutes ago, di-fi said:

First of all you seem to struggle with space inside the case and there also needs to be air circulating to avoid too high temperatures. Further I would think a small piece of PH simply will not have the capacity to absorb much acoustic energy, if that is what you try to accomplish (but it looks great though). If you look for isolation from acoustic vibration, very likely it would have an audible effect if you:  

1) make sure all inside the case is well attached but never overtight to avoid damage to electronic boards 

2) install a large and thick piece PH (platform) under the case making sure there are three or four hard contact points, between the server case and the platform and also between platform and rack/floor.

If you are looking to protect from Electromagnetic interference (EMI) better options are relatively thick copper or aluminum walls and mounting plates (flatbar) that will also take up less space. Just a thought.

 

You're correct in that the panzerholz will be very thin between the case and transformer. I don't know how much it will help but hope for something.  Air circulation is a concern.  I may drill more holes in the side and top of the case to allow for heat dissipation. It does not get too hot inside its cage now.

 

While copper might be ideal or at least it looks nicer, I know this works. I've used it in my last server build and for other components. I've heard the improvement.  There are varying thicknesses.

 

AB5100SHF 3M Electronic Specialty | Mouser

 

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