Building a DIY Music Server

[Nenon]

12 hours ago, Exocer said:

Back to Taiko DC-ATX testing with PHSR7T.

 

Let's label the configurations A and B. Where:

 

A. Taiko feeding entire server, fed Paul Hynes SR7T 19v 10a rated single rail. Ghent Gotham JSSG360 from Taiko Dc-ATX to EPS on motherboard.

B. Taiko feeding ATX only. EPS powered directly from a Paul Hynes SR7t 12v 12a rated rail. All using the best of Paul Hynes best silver DC cables. No JSSG.

 

Solution A:

 

Pros

1. Amazing transparency.

2. Sense of space is more open.

3. New microdetails are heard and are surprisingly at the forefront. These details cannot be unheard when switching back but did not draw attention to themselves in the same way.

4. The sense of more information retrieval. There will be moments in your listening where you are shocked to re-listen to a very familiar song and will hear a series of notes in the background that you did not know existed! It is something to experience for sure.

 

Cons

1. The sound is a bit leaner and i'm a sucker for a "full bodied" sound. (my preference)

2. More noticeable sibilance over time. I am convinced this has more to do with the EPS cable than the Taiko DC-ATX.

3. Not as much sense of ease. Perhaps I was approaching the 10A limit or not staying within a comfortable range.

4. Down a few notches in slam/impact.

 

Solution B:

 

Pros

1. The sense of ease you get with a dedicated clean 12v rail is apparent.

2. More slam and visceral effect in hard hitting songs.

3. Sibilance is completely not an issue, especially with female vocals and sharper sounding songs.

4. Fuller bodied sound with no obvious loss of speed.

 

Cons

1. The sound does not have the same openness as Solution A although I would not consider the soundstage smaller or closed in.

2. Ultra fine details are not as audible and do not draw as much attention to themselves although they are present (after they jump out at you with Solution A and you cannot unhear them).

3. You kind of miss the magic of solution A depending on the song

 

Summary

In terms of musicality it is a toss-up. Please keep in mind that the cables are not entirely equal and I have had sibilance issues with the Ghent cable in my system before. With the cables I have on-hand I would prefer Solution B for longer sessions, but Solution A has a Lot of potential and it has this way of drawing you into songs you know very well. I would be curious to see how Solution A would work out with a higher capacity rail and/or an equal quality EPS cable.

 

Is the Taiko DC-ATX worth it as an upgrade from the HDPlex? In my particular setup I took a risk and ordered it not knowing what to expect...and it was a major step in the right direction. The HDPlex is good, the Taiko is astounding in comparison, even for ATX alone I feel it is a worthwhile upgrade.

 

Follow-up: In the near future I will be building another EPS cable made from the same wire we will use for our unregulated linear power supplies. This cable is known to be very neutral so the hope is that I can conduct a fairer comparison between solutions A and B. 

 

Hopefully you all find this useful!

 

That's great feedback @Exocer. I just wanted to add a couple observations of mine as well. If you have read my big post a few pages ago, there was this section there:

On 4/14/2021 at 1:04 PM, Nenon said:

Replacing the HDPlex (which was only feeding the 3.3V and 5V) with the Taiko ATX was a big improvement. But Emile told me the strength of the Taiko ATX is in powering the 12V EPS rail. I put together a higher current higher voltage LPS (mine was 12V which was not enough for the Taiko ATX) and while experimenting I managed to destroy one of the rails on the Taiko ATX. Oops! That happened on the day I received it. Emile added protection in the design, so all the units he is selling have that now. But it took a while to send me a new unit. However, I managed to bypass the ATX on the Taiko ATX and just use the 12V EPS rail on the Taiko ATX.

 

Let me expand on that a little. The first month or two after I received the Taiko ATX I could not use it for the ATX section because I destroyed one of the rails and was waiting for a replacement unit. But I used the PS_ON jumper and hooked it up directly to the EPS connectors, supplying only 12V to my dual CPU ASUS Sage motherboard. 

On 4/14/2021 at 1:04 PM, Nenon said:

Did that sound better than my pimped out high-current LPS? No, it did not! At least not at the time. I rolled up my sleeves and started working on this unregulated LPS with some help from Emile. I quickly realized how transparent the Taiko ATX was. Any change you make to the unregulated LPS, and you can immediately hear. I played with different transformers, different rectifiers (including mosfet rectifiers), different capacitors, bypass capacitors, inductors, etc. I have been doing this for about 6 months.

 

There was a few things that I learned at this time. Here are some comments: 

 

1. Although, the ATX input works with any voltage between 16V and 48V, I found that higher voltage sounds much better. I would say that 16V-19V did not sound very good, and the magic happens at higher voltage - 24V - 35V in my opinion is the sweet spot. With the transformer I picked, I am at around 30-31V DC at the moment. 

 

2. For some reason, I prefered feeding it with an unregulated LPS instead of regulated LPS. I don't know why, but there is something really good about feeding the GaN Fets with unrestricted current and unregulated linear. One thing to mention, though, I did not try a 30-35V DC regulated LPS. I could have tried one but did not feel the need. I got excited that we could have such excellent results from a relatively inexpensive unregulated LPS. Perhaps we should try a 30-35V regulated LPS, but I strongly believe at this time that my server benefits more from unrestricted current than regulation before the GaN ATX. 

 

3. All my experiments were with two 85W TDP Xeon CPUs. Those are much harder to power than a single 65W TDP AMD Ryzen CPU or a 95W TDP I9 9900k. And that is where this power supply arrangement really shines. I am not sure how well it works on lower power CPUs. I am guessing on low powered CPUs a good LPS would work better. But this dual CPU computer is a different story. Those are some experiments people would need to make. There are specific applications in which we want to use the Taiko ATX. It's not a miracle device that would work best in every single application. 

 

4. I find the GaN Fet ATX to be extremely fast. Too fast actually. Adding some big capacitors in front of it makes it fuller, more dynamic, and more expansive. It also slows it down a little, although it is still faster than a LPS. Seems like this is one of the things @Exocer ran into. 

 

Just to get an idea of how sensitive the GaN ATX is on what is feeding it... I did an A/B comparison between different ring terminals that connect the high current capacitors yesterday. That's the connector on each end of the 3-parallel white wires link on the picture below:

 

I compared a regular tin-plated copper ring terminal from my local hardware store to a high quality Mundorf copper ring terminal:

 

Well, it turned out everything matters, so I will be buying more of those Mundorfs. I would not say the difference was shockingly big, but definitely worth the few extra bucks in my system. I guess it never ends :). 

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

a more steady state power consumption leading to better SQ potentially

Steady power consumptions is a key factor in many high-end servers. It's one of the many variables that helps sound quality. And there are multiple ways to control that from software and hardware. 

 

2 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

The Aorus MB I'm currently using has a fan-stop feature, in my usage the chipset fan never comes on

That's a good feature. 

 

2 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

the CPU fan also hardly does

Ugh, I would stay away from any computer fans. But that's me. 

 

4 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Sure. I will conduct this test. I do not think you will need to give it up if you are sticking with a single CPU. The Taiko DC-ATX + PH SR7T is fantastic. I think the Unregulated supply is more of a necessity for the Dual CPU build per Nenons tests. Will keep you posted.

We still need to test all that.

I would not be surprised if "unregulated LPS --> Taiko ATX --> ATX+EPS" sounds better than using a separate regulated LPS for the EPS and TaikoATX on the ATX on single CPU servers too. You are mixing up ground planes, restricting the current, etc. You haven't really tried yet. And I haven't tried it on a single CPU server either. But it would be nice to test all that.

 

In my tests, the Taiko ATX really shined on the EPS, not on the ATX. But it needs to be fed by higher voltage properly designed unregulated LPS. It also takes some time to burn-in... gets better over time.

 

As soon as the Noratel transformers get delivered to Taiko, we would have everything needed to build an unregulated LPS. 

@Exocer I may even build one and send it to you to try. Or I can send you the parts needed (or just those you can't find) and you build one yourself. We can discuss the details on PM when the transformers are ready. 

 

[Nenon]

Had a quick chat with @paulhynes and got some updates from him.

Although he had closed the custom build service to new orders, there are currently 7 custom builds available for transfer to new owners. There is a last chance for 7 people to get the otherwise unobtainable custom dual regulated SR7, which is now called DR7.

 

Per Paul:

Quote

The custom build schedule is now moving ahead again as I have managed to acquire the lease on another workshop unit next to PHD Ltd were I can work in isolation clearing the outstanding backlog of custom builds without fear of contracting covid-19. I am moving furniture and equipment into this unit over the next week and should be operational the following week.

 

Just passing the message here... 

[Nenon]

Hey guys - I am on vacation until mid-May but have been getting a bunch of messages. Some of them alerting me that I need to start moderating this thread and others asking about the unregulated LPS.

 

Please get back on track here. If someone has questions about why high-end servers (or anything upstream from the DAC) matter, please open another topic. This thread is for those who want to improve their source upstream from the DAC. There is a lot of useful info on these pages but it's getting harder and harder to find between the rest of the posts (some of which are completely useless). When you post something think whether your post is on topic and whether it would be beneficial for the readers here. If not, perhaps you should not post. If you open another thread and need my attention, just tag my name, and I will get notification. Or you can always send me a private message. 

BTW, @The Computer Audiophile - can you please give me access to delete messages here?

 

I've seen some questions here I have not answered yet. Give me some time, and I will go back and catch up when I get back from vacation. 

 

I've heard that Taiko has shipped most of the ATX pre-orders. And I've had a bunch of questions about the unregulated LPS and the DIY recipe. I am waiting for the Noratel transformers Taiko ordered to arrive to built a finished unregulated LPS unit. Until we get those, there isn't too much I can do. I have posted details about the unregulated LPS here - 

On 3/22/2021 at 6:30 PM, Nenon said:

Some updates from me on the Taiko DIY project.

 

1. The Taiko ATX was delayed and scheduled for the end of April now.

2. The Chassis is still work in progress. Emile has been super busy, but I was assured today that rendering and pricing is coming up ASAP.

3. Taiko USB card - that unfortunately would remain exclusive to Extreme users. We, the DIY community, would not have access to the Taiko USB card for now. It's quite disappointing, and I am starting to think if I need to buy an Extreme. It's still unlikely for me to go that route, but even if I do, that would be a good thing, as I would have a reference to compare this DIY build to.

4. TAS - that is also exclusive to Extreme owners for now. 

5. Unregulated LPS to feed the Taiko ATX - see the rest of this message below.

 

Here is a quick update on the unregulated LPS.

 

It looks something like this:

IEC Inlet / Fuse --> Soft start module --> Transformer --> Rectifier --> Choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC caps (each bypassed with a VCAP ODAM Film Cap)

 

1 pcs.

IEC/Fuse

TBD

$20 - $90 range

 

1 pcs.

Transformer

Emile has these on order

Don't know the price yet.

 

1 pcs.

Soft start module

https://www.hypex.nl/product/softstart-module/38

~$50 

 

1 pcs.

Rectifier

Taiko will provide an active mosfet rectifier.

 

1 pcs.

Hammond 159ZJ choke. 

Mouser.com part #546-159ZJ

$26.71

 

3 pcs.

Mundorf Capacitor 22000uF 80Vdc MLytic HC

https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-70412.html

$100.41 each ($301.23)

 

3 pcs.

VCAP ODAM - 0.1 uF

https://www.v-cap.com/odam-capacitors.php

$53.74 each ($161.22)

 

I am trying these as well now - https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/cables/mconnect_clg/Presskabelschuh-M6-Ring-Kupfer/?card=4081

 

All that stuff can be made in a way that does not require soldering. For example, the capacitors look like this with screws on top:

With the right pre-terminated cables you can just use a screwdriver to connect it.

We can pick an IEC inlet that looks like this (and does not require soldering):

 

I think we can design this whole thing so even people who can't solder anything can put it together. Obviously, there will be a lot of pictures, explanations, and disclaimers. You would need the connecting wires (with pre soldered connectors).

BTW, I did not pick these components with the agenda to make a solder-less unit. They just sounded best, and the screw connections were a bonus.

 

I've picked the wiring too. But it's a wire that is not available on the consumer market, so I'll have to figure out how to make it more accessible. The Mundorf silver/gold wire is also an option for cost no object units/

 

If I were you, I would not be in a rush to get all the parts now. We may arrange a group order with some discounts. I am looking at that. I may even provide the entire kit with everything needed and detailed instructions. Or get someone else to do that. Also, there is a small chance that I may replace some parts in the last minute (be aware of that!), especially with the plan "B" rectification. I also have a plan Z in mind to test - tube rectification :). Yes, I am serious, but that's not a priority. 

 

All in all, I think we are looking at around $1,000 for the unregulated LPS. Not bad at all for how good this thing sounds with the Taiko ATX. Keep in mind this is designed and voiced with the Taiko ATX. You can try it on a HDPlex DC to DC ATX if you like but it's not a regulated LPS and you can't feed your computer directly with this.

 

 

If you are in North America or Europe, don't jump on buying all the parts. I am trying to arrange a group buy with hopefully some discounts from the retail price. There are also a couple of people who are willing to build an unregulated LPS (for a fee no more than $500 - that was my condition) for those who prefer not to do it themselves. I will also build a few units myself to kick this off and will make plenty of pictures and descriptions. In other words, wait until I get some transformers and parts and will get the DIY unregulated LPS documented. 

 

@Exocer is helping me with some CAD drawings. We'll try to get some custom cases produced to host the unregulated LPS as a standalone unit. And we are still waiting for the Taiko chassis, which will have space to build the unregulated LPS inside. 

 

In the meantime, the Taiko ATX is a good replacement for the HDplex 400W and 800W DC to DC ATX and it's definitely a step up. How much better it is would depend on how resolving your system is. It's a pretty significant upgrade if you have a good resolving system. Keep in mind that it takes a few days to settle. It might be a little bright and lean in the beginning. But once it settles it sounds really good.

 

I have to go now, but give me some more time, and I will post everything you need to know about the unregulated LPS and more.

 

 

 

[Nenon]

Just a quick note to make here (still away on vacation with limited Internet time)...

 

What feeds the Taiko ATX needs to be a very low impedance supply. This is more important than regulated vs. non-regulated. Emile does not recommend longer leads than 4'' of thick gauge cable. I understand 4'' might be difficult but keep that in mind. Some of the DC cables we've used in the past (with great success) might be 50-100mOhm just for the cables. An impedance higher than 20mOhm could make the Taiko ATX sound lean. The unregulated LPS I am currently using has about 1.4mOhm output impedance (it also has about 5uV ripple). Something to keep in mind. I rarely say that, but in this case short and lower gauge wires work better than fancy 15-16 AWG wires (although having both is a good idea). With that in mind perhaps those powering with PH SR7T may try a thicker and shorter wire.

And there is of course the burn-in period. It takes a 7-10 days in my experience for the Taiko ATX to go through the peaks/valleys process. As @Exocer just reported, his finding have changed after some burn-in time.

@Exocer - try a thicker and shorter wire between the SR7T and the Taiko ATX if you can next. Pure silver wire like the one supplied by PH may not be the best match given how transparent the Taiko ATX is. Feel free to experiment... I am currently using copper wire (although I still need to try the Mundorf silver/gold wire).

Those of us who would be building the unregulated LPS inside the chassis from Taiko would be able to achieve very low output impedance. But there are ways we can do that with an external supply as well. 

[Nenon]

20 minutes ago, dctom said:

Hi asking for some very basic help.

 

I have got my Taiko ATX however not sure how to connect the SATA power lead. My SATA lead has a 6 pin connector (as used on the HDPLX 800) but the Taiko SATA out has four pins?? 

 

Sounds like you need a new cable. Here are some Molex connectors that should work with the 4-pin connector:

 

4 PIN – 5V / 12V
Part number: 39012040 (white)
Part number: 39012045 (white)
Part number: 39013042 (white)
Part number: 39013045 (black)

 

PINs
18 AWG Gold plated: 457501212
16 AWG Gold plated: 457503212

 

Here is what I have discovered for the other connectors:

6 PIN – External Power:
Part number: 39012060 (white)
Part number: 39012065 (white)
Part number: 39039062 (black)

 

8 PIN – EPS Connector:
Part number: 39012080 (white)
Part number: 39012085 (white)
Part number: 39013085 (black)

 

24 PIN – ATX Connector:
Part number: 39012240
Part number: 39012245
Black part that I think should work: 46992-2410
 

Note: The list above was not provided by Taiko. It was compiled by my own research. 

[Nenon]

51 minutes ago, dctom said:

Thanks Nenon

 

I need a cable like this?

 

 

I am not a fan of SATA drives, and haven't looked at them in a while, but generally speaking the SATA connector provides 3 voltages (3.3V, 5V, and 12V) and different drives use different voltages. Some spinning hard drives use the 12V for the spinning and 5V for electronics. Some solid state drives need only 5V, others need 3.3V, etc. You would need to check the specs of your drive and what voltages are needed.

And then you need to find a cable with the correct pinout or get one made for you. Here is the pinout on the Taiko ATX:

 

 

You can use any of these connectors:

Part number: 39012040 (white)
Part number: 39012045 (white)
Part number: 39013042 (white)
Part number: 39013045 (black)

 

With these pins:

18 AWG Gold plated: 457501212
16 AWG Gold plated: 457503212

 

On the other side, it would be a standard SATA connector.

You can ask the seller of the cable you showed on the picture for the connector type used and the pinout, and it if matches the above (and your SATA drive does not need 3.3V, which is very rare anyway), it should work.

Or you can ask Ghent to make you one.

 

Perhaps other people who use SATA drives would have some better ideas, but that's all I can offer. 

[Nenon]

I had several questions about how I “voiced” the unregulated LPS, some of which with a hint of “should I trust you?”, “what is your sound preference?”.

 

In its simplest form a power supply is a voltage source that needs to remain stable regardless of the current draw. The higher the current draw and the more dynamic it is, the more difficult the job of the power supply is. I used the Asus SAGE motherboard here with two Intel Xeon Silver 4210 processors. These are 85W TDP processors, but the TDP specs are quite useless these days. They can draw more than 170W. Given that what I ended up with works really well on this dual CPU hardware, I suspect it would be a piece of cake for this power supply to handle a single CPU that is rated at 35-95W TDP, which is what a lot of people here use. You can think of it as an overbuilt (overkill) power supply. But who does not like overbuilt components in high-end audio :)?

 

It’s relatively easy to put together an unregulated LPS. You need a transformer, a rectifier, and optionally some components to smoothen out the DC / filter out some noise. Every part has its own sound signature.

When you compare two parts, in many cases one part is better in one area, and the other part is better in another area. But in some cases you have parts that are overall better in all areas. Typically, those are more expensive too.

 

There are two areas with the unregulated LPS - schematics and parts used. A few experiments with different schematics made it obvious what is important. Higher voltage sounded better. The lower the impedance, the better it sounded. There was benefit from better ripple rejection. That narrowed down the schematics selection to CLC and CLCLC. C is capacitor, L is inductor.

 

Inductor / choke selection:

For less than $30 it’s really hard to beat the 10mH / 5A Hammond 159ZJ inductor. It’s cheap, easy to implement, and sounds really good. Another option is to ask Lundahl to make us a custom choke, but Emile advised me that they are much more difficult to implement, so I scratched this idea for now. One of the problems when people like me (I.e. the OCD type) design something is that you can never put a border line and stop improving things… thus the design is never finished. I have promised to people here to provide an easy to build and great sounding unregulated LPS to go with the Taiko ATX. With that in mind, I decided to settle on the 159ZJ choke. It’s widely available, relatively inexpensive, and great for this application.

 

Transformer selection:

The next part to pick was the transformer. While transformers do sound different, the difference is not so much of a “voicing” tool. In my experience, well made toroidal transformers don’t sound brighter, leaner, deeper, etc. What I hear with different transformers is lower/higher noise and less/more distortion. I tried different voltages, different core sizes, and different brand models. Higher voltage was better sounding, so that was a no brainer. The VA value is an interesting one, because it interacts with the rectifier. Using a heavily oversized transformer caused ringing, which was an audible high frequency noise. A 750VA Toroidy Supreme transformer I tried definitely had that. I managed to reduce the ringing by using a very long 16 AWG wire between the transformer and the rectifier. But then what’s the point to use an oversized transformer and throttle its output by highly resistant wires. I found the 350-400VA to be the sweet spot. My first pick was the Toroidy Supreme. The guys from Toroidy are great. Their transformers are exceptionally good. And they are a very reliable vendor. But then Emile sent me a few more transformers to try. One of them was a custom Noratel transformer that is difficult to get. It felt like the Noratel was a little bit lower distortion. How much lower? If the Noratel is 100 points, I would put the Toroidy at 95+ points. Very little difference. Given that the Noratel is hard to obtain, and you have to place an order in the hundreds, I was going to go with the Toroidy. But then Emile offered to place an order with Noratel, and I gladly accepted that. But probably the main reason I picked the Noratel was that it has a built-in soft start. The Taiko ATX prototype I got had no protection and I fried one of the GaN FETs on the first day. Emile added protection on the production units. But I would rather be on the safe side still. Not only I picked the transformer with built-in soft start, but I also added an extra soft start before the transformer. This prolongs the life of the electrolytic capacitors, and the power supply does not need days to recover from the capacitors charge surge on startup.

 

Rectifier selection:

I have written a bit about this previously, but I tried different rectifiers with different transformers combinations. The most expensive Cree diodes I tried sounded the worst. The lower voltage drop Schottky diodes sounded pretty good. The active MOSFET rectifier Emile designed was on par with the best Schottky diodes. They sounded a little bit different, but I had a really hard time deciding which one I prefer. I’ve done many A/B comparisons and got lost at some point. Didn’t take notes, so don’t ask me to explain what I heard, because I don’t remember, but the difference was subtle. At the end I picked the active MOSFET rectifier for its efficiency and lower temperature. Keep the temperature lower in our music servers usually pays out in better sound quality. It’s also easier as we don’t need to to design a PCB board for the Schottky diodes.

 

Capacitors selection:

This is the part where you can apply the most personal preferences and be more creative and “voice” things to your liking. There are several aspects to consider - capacitor specs (capacitance, ESR, etc), capacitor brand, model, etc. Having had a lot of DIY experience with capacitors, I know how different capacitors sound. I have tried many - Nichicon, Panasonic, Mundorf, Audio Note, Elma, Kemet, Black gate to name a few. Without any doubt, Mundorf is my go to when it gets to high capacitance capacitors. I did try a few other capacitor brands I had on hand, but I quickly narrowed down the choice between Mundorf AG and Mundorf HC. The Mundorf AG had better / smoother highs. The Mundorf HC had deeper and better bass but was a little more rough in the higher frequencies. How do you get the best of both worlds? It’s not easy for the Mundorf AG caps in this application to get the deep bass of the Mundorf HC (although there are ways to get close). But there is a trick to significantly improve the highs on the Mundorf HC - using film bypass capacitors. After trying a dozen different film caps, I liked the VCAP ODAM as bypass caps the best. In my opinion the Mundorf HC with VCAP ODAM film caps sounds better in every level than the Mundorf AG in this particular application. That makes the unregulated LPS huge and more expensive, but that was my choice. It’s an overkill, and perhaps people with smaller speakers don’t need that. Mundorf AG caps would work perfectly fine here. But my highly efficient 18’’ paper cone woofers driven by dedicated SET mono blocks love the HC+ODAM combo. As far as capacitance, I have tried quite a few option and have settled on the two options I liked the best.

 

It’s still to be determined if we can use a full set of Mundorf HC capacitors with the Taiko chassis. I am not sure we can fit all that, especially in the CLCLC configuration, but once I get the chassis, I can do some quick experiments and pick perhaps a combination between Mundorf AG/HC/Film caps. There is also one more rectifier I have on order to test…

 

That’s all for now from me. More posts when my vacation is over... I know I have several other unanswered questions... will get to them eventually. 

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, OAudio said:

 

@Nenon 

 

Wow, 5uV = ~-135db of rejection ( assuming a ~30v rail ) ! 

 

I have been playing along in the background for a while using simulations of an unregulated supply based on the component choices in your earlier posts. With components listed and tweaking components parameters to near ideal performance levels its hard to get <3mv pk - pk @ 1 amp constant load.    

 

5uV is exceptional. Can I ask how you measuring the ripple and and under what test conditions ?

 

Thanks. 

Have you tried simulating the dual choke CLCLC configuration? 

 

19 minutes ago, dctom said:

Struggling to get the Taiko ATX up and running. I cannot get the system to boot up beyond bios screen, the  sata OS ssd and my nvme m.2 storage drives do not show up in bios screen. 

If I substitute my hdplex 800 it boots up with no problem??

Try booting from a USB stick (disconnect the SATA and NVME for the test). This should narrow down the problem between:

a. not having enough power to boot; or

b. something related to powering the SATA / NVME

If you can boot from a USB drive, it is likely "b". Sorry, I won't be around later to help troubleshooting, but other people here can advice. 

[Nenon]

7 hours ago, bit01 said:

I will also confirm preference of using the SR7T to power the TAIKO DC DC ATX unit and let that power the CPU (Intel i9-10900K in a GB Z490 AORUS Master). The music flows (grabs my attention)  much better than when using the 2nd rail via a SJ regulator for the CPU. So far I hear what I would call a 'polished' sound, pleasant on the ear with nice PRaT. Music intricacies are very evident. Instrumental timbre is very good as are voices. This is very relaxed listening so far. 

 

 I switched the SR7T powered HDPlex 800 out to test the Taiko. The CPU powered by the SR7T in both cases. I had been playing some tracks at a comfortable volume.  The server was feeding my main system, which I had left powered up when I made the switch.

 

Without adjusting the volume the sound seemed diminished with the TAIKO (apparent lower volume). I was tempted to increase the volume a few notches but resisted.

 

When I powered the CPU directly from the TAIKO the volume seemed more, but not quite to the level I remembered (audio memory can be poor). I will have to switch back to the HDplex to double check this. If true (very early days) then it sounds to me like the macro dynamics are somewhat diminished in comparison to the HDPlex both fed with the SR7T 19V rail.  Although the sound is more refined  I feel like it does not 'punch' to the same level. There will be more break in and tuning here hopefully including the unregulated higher voltage PS that 

@Nenon  is working on to power the TAIKO. 

 

I had a similar impression as the above when I switched the G. SKILL RIPJAWS V RAM 3200MHz out for the APACER 2666 CL19 WT and to a lesser extent the  APACER 3200 CL22 WT! (More polish, less dynamic swing)!!

 

I had tuned the HDPlex 800 setup to my liking with:  the Ghent Audio Neotech 18awg UPOCC (in JSSG360)- 0.2M of NT01 for ATX and 0.5M NT02 for the CPU. The SR7T to DC-ATX unit: about 1M Mundorf 16AWG Ag/Au and 0.5M to CPU (when used). The same wiring is sounding really good with the TAIKO.

 

The TAIKO DC DC-ATX is a replacement unit, FedEx having smashed the 1st one. Taiko replaced it without issue, thanks to them, and the unit this time came in its own  nice box inside the shipper (double boxed). It survived the trip because of the better packaging as the outer box here was visibly rough treated too.

 

ATB.

b.

 

 

How long have you had it running for? The lower volume is one of the general burn-in characters, so I suspect you don't have 400-500 hours yet. Give it some time, it will open up a lot more. 

 

I am back from my vacation and have some parts coming my way. I will also try to catch up with Emile this week to see where we are with the chassis and transformers. I do need a transformer to finish the chassis layout, but if they are far away, I will take my power supply apart and use the transformer I have.

I know the Taiko DIY chassis were delayed. He had some CNC time reserved but with the raw materials shortage and other issues everything is taking much longer. 

 

I should have some more updates next week... 

[Nenon]

Unregulated LPS update

 

I am pretty much set on the 3 designs. As I explained in an earlier post, we simply add more parts to each design. You can start with v1 and then go to v2 and then to v3. As you are going up the ladder no parts remain unused. 

 

The first version (aka v1) is very simple. You have an IEC inlet --> Fuse --> Soft start --> Transformer --> Mosfet rectifier --> Output connector. The version gives you very clean, fast, and transparent sound, but it does not have the body and the full expansive sound as the other two versions. Can too transparent and too fast be a problem? I think it's way too fast and transparent, hence the additional components in the other two versions. But it's all about personal taste. Some may like that version more. 

 

The second version (aka v2) consists of: IEC inlet --> Fuse --> Soft start --> Transformer --> Mosfet rectifier --> Mundorf HC 22,000 uF (bypassed with VCAP ODAM 0.1 uF film cap) --> Hammond choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC 22,000 uF (each bypassed with VCAP ODAM 0.1 uF film cap) --> Output connector. This is an improvement over v1 in my opinion. It gives you a bit more of everything and is the sweet spot. This is what I have been running for months (until I tried v3). You have about 5mV ripple with this version. You get about 2.3 mOhm output impedance but that's influenced by the wiring you are using and could be higher if you use thin wires or bad connectors.

 

The third version (aka v3) consists of: IEC inlet --> Fuse --> Soft start --> Transformer --> Mosfet rectifier --> Mundorf HC 22,000 uF (bypassed with VCAP ODAM 0.1 uF film cap) --> Hammond choke --> Mundorf HC 22,000 uF (bypassed with VCAP ODAM 0.1 uF film cap) --> Hammond choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC ( 2 x 47,000 uF + 1 x 22,000 uF, each bypassed with VCAP ODAM 0.1 uF film cap) --> Output connector. This version gives away some of the "clean" sound you have in v1 and v2 but is fuller, bigger, massively expensive. Amazing 5uV ripple and nearly half the output impedance compared to v2 - ~1.2 mOhm + the impact of your wiring. 

 

I don't have the prices of the Noratel transformers and the Taiko rectifier, but just to get some idea, let's assume they are $200 each. Here is what I have for the bill of materials with somewhat rounded prices:

 

This is just ballpark pricing to get an idea. Leave it to me, and it would get much more expensive as I would add thick pure copper busbars, multiple runs of expensive wire, exotic connectors, footers, etc. I would also have Modushop fabricate the cases for me, so it's easier to install everything. That also adds to the cost. However, if you see how massive v3 is, it would easily compare to the power supplies of very very expensive amps. If this thing was a commercial product (or a part of a commercial product) in the dealer's network I'd expect it to be over $20K. This is the beauty of DIY :). And as far as R&D goes, the amount of time spent here is on par with many commercial products to say the least. 

 

If you are impatient and don't want to wait anymore, you can order a 24VAC 400VA Toroidy Supreme transformer, get a rectifier of your choice, and get this going. Not my favorite rectifier but something like the Vishay GBPC3504-E4/51 could do the job for the time being, assuming it would be replaced with something better in the future. 

 

That was the easy part of the post. It gets quite complicated from here. As with anything else in life, there will be people with all kinds of different preferences. Some would like cheaper. Some would like better where cost is no object. Some would prefer easier to make. Some would prefer someone else to make it for them. Some would have existing parts they would like to use. And so on... It's hard to cover all possible cases, but here are some random notes to begin with. 

• If you are on a budget, the above can be made a lot cheaper. You can use a cheaper chassis, cheaper IEC inlet, cheaper connectors, cheaper transformers, cheaper capacitors, etc. You can really make this a budget LPS. It would probably still be better than most linear power supplies on the market (most of them use cheap components too). 
• If you are on the opposite end of "on a budget", you can make this even better. You can use even better chassis. You can add good feet to the chassis (i.e. the Gaia I use). You can fabricate copper busbars to screw in the Mundorf caps to (something I am looking to do for myself). You can use the Mundorf copper terminal rings. 
• If you are not handy with drilling/milling we can have Modushop predrill all the holes on the rear panel and the bottom panel. That adds to the price - from their price list guessing around 25 Euro for the rear panel (less than 10 holes) and another 35-45 Euro (more the 20 holes for v3) for the bottom panel. BTW, I have not received this chassis from Modushop yet, so I am just speculating that v3 would fit in it at this point. Pretty sure v2 would fit. But you can also use a smaller chassis for v1 and v2.
• Taiko does not have many mosfet rectifiers, so we have to decide if another batch is needed, if Emile is even willing to run another batch. There are a lot of complications with that... We need to see what the lead times would be. We need to know how many to order. Or we can look for some other alternatives. There is something else I have in mind but would require a PCB. 
• There is a guy in the US and a guy in the EU who are willing to make these unregulated LPS's for other people. The labor fee negotiated was $500, given that the chassis has all the holes pre-drilled. I will make a couple myself just to get the process started and documented.  
• We haven't discussed wiring. I am still making some tests but so far I am leaning towards busbars for the capacitors and a custom OEM copper wire I managed to procure with the Mundorf lugs (which are quite pricey by the way, but I like them). 

 

There is a global shortage of materials. Some of the products mentioned above may be hard to obtain. I mentioned doing a potential group order in the past. I can try to organise that and get the entire BOM. If anyone is interested in that, please contact me on PM before the end of May indicating if you want v2 or v3 and if you want someone to build it for you.

 

Okay, let's keep it at that for now. I can probably keep writing this post the whole day but have other things I need to do now. 

 

[Nenon]

41 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

I would highly recommend to avoid those ultra expensive Furutech connectors/plugs/sockets. All Furutech products have been cryogenically treated and unfortunately they impose a very bad sonic signature compared to the non-cryo versions. I used to purchase Wattgate & Furutech products many years ago, before this cryo treating policy was applied to the whole array of their products. Nowadays, cryo treatment has become a standard and this is really bad for good sound.

Yep. Some people love them. Some hate them. Not only the cryo stuff.... some people hate anything Rhodium plated too.

I like their NCF stuff.

When Emile and I discussed the Taiko chassis, we designed the IEC cutout to fit multiple IEC inlets including the Oyaide used on the Taiko Extreme and Furutech. This is DIY and everyone can use whatever suits them.

 

41 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

In addition, I have never ever listened to any Vcap capacitor that sounds really good. On the contrary, they are sterile and thin sounding.

In what application? Signal path or power supplies? And if power supplies, for analog or digital component? And if for digital, for high current or low current application, in what design and what position?

I know you are very knowledgeable about analog designs, transformers, etc. But if you referring to your analog signal path experience, this has nothing to do with it. I would not use those VCAPs as coupling capacitors or anywhere in the signal for my tube amps or tube line stage or tube phono stage. I use Duelund Cast-Pio Tinned Copper Film caps there (or copper in one application). Using them in this LPS is completely different.

 

41 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Last, bypassing electrolytes does not make things better.

Let's not generalise. I've spent a lot of time listening and didn't just recommend it because I read somewhere that using bypassing caps might be better. I've tried many other capacitors with and without bypassing caps. More on that in one of my previous posts:

On 5/7/2021 at 12:20 PM, Nenon said:

Capacitors selection:

This is the part where you can apply the most personal preferences and be more creative and “voice” things to your liking. There are several aspects to consider - capacitor specs (capacitance, ESR, etc), capacitor brand, model, etc. Having had a lot of DIY experience with capacitors, I know how different capacitors sound. I have tried many - Nichicon, Panasonic, Mundorf, Audio Note, Elma, Kemet, Black gate to name a few. Without any doubt, Mundorf is my go to when it gets to high capacitance capacitors. I did try a few other capacitor brands I had on hand, but I quickly narrowed down the choice between Mundorf AG and Mundorf HC. The Mundorf AG had better / smoother highs. The Mundorf HC had deeper and better bass but was a little more rough in the higher frequencies. How do you get the best of both worlds? It’s not easy for the Mundorf AG caps in this application to get the deep bass of the Mundorf HC (although there are ways to get close). But there is a trick to significantly improve the highs on the Mundorf HC - using film bypass capacitors. After trying a dozen different film caps, I liked the VCAP ODAM as bypass caps the best. In my opinion the Mundorf HC with VCAP ODAM film caps sounds better in every level than the Mundorf AG in this particular application. That makes the unregulated LPS huge and more expensive, but that was my choice. It’s an overkill, and perhaps people with smaller speakers don’t need that. Mundorf AG caps would work perfectly fine here. But my highly efficient 18’’ paper cone woofers driven by dedicated SET mono blocks love the HC+ODAM combo. As far as capacitance, I have tried quite a few option and have settled on the two options I liked the best.

 

41 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

A good measuring electrolyte like Siemens or Nichicon with its characteristic angle as close to -90 as possible (at 100 Hz) has way better behavior than the one of the Mundorfs, which have been found to be unreasonably expensive.

Okay, they may have "better behaviour" (whatever that means), but they sound worse in this application. We care about sound quality here, and those Mundorf caps sound better. Way better actually! Given how transparent the Taiko ATX is, EVERYTHING makes a difference in this unregulated LPS. I am posting what works for me and hoping that the DIY community would improve my initial design (and I will benefit from that later too). 

 

41 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Putting all these down, leads to cost cutting well below 40%.

That's right. Maybe even more than 40%. As I said in my post:

2 hours ago, Nenon said:

If you are on a budget, the above can be made a lot cheaper. You can use a cheaper chassis, cheaper IEC inlet, cheaper connectors, cheaper transformers, cheaper capacitors, etc. You can really make this a budget LPS. It would probably still be better than most linear power supplies on the market (most of them use cheap components too). 

It won't sound the same, though. The beauty of this is that it's an open design and everyone can fit to personal taste, budget, etc. 

[Nenon]

17 hours ago, novaca said:

Would this power supply be usable (and a better choice than others) also for other than Taiko DC-ATX? (yes, for example HDPLEX 800W) If so, should v2 or v3 be considered?

I don't see why not.

While both the HDPLEX and Taiko ATX are switching mode power supplies, the Taiko ATX is using GaN FETs configured to switch in the MHz range (way outside the audio range) and the HDPLEX has switching noise in the audible range. Just something to keep in mind when making those choices. 

 

17 hours ago, Downtheline said:

Nenon, is the taiko diy case still planned to be big enough for this v3 power supply and the motherboard and the dc/atx?  Or are you now thinking it better to separate into 2 chassis? 

V1, V2, and V3 were provided as options to build an unregulated LPS in an external chassis. I wanted to get this out as many people ordered and received their Taiko ATX. 

Once I get the Taiko chassis, I will be working on a version for that for myself and will share what I end up with. I don't think we would have space for V3 with the big Mundorf HC caps. Some compromises would be needed there. We can probably do V3 with Mundorf AG caps, or stick to V2, or do something in between. The benefit there would be that the Taiko ATX would be right next the the output of the unregulated LPS - we can use short wires and no connectors, which would reduce the output impedance, which has a big effect on SQ. 

 

5 hours ago, Rovo said:

Nenon, would you be able to supply us with a connection diagram/sketch and/or photos?

That is the plan. But I need the chassis first, and can do the connection diagram and the chassis layout on one diagram. 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Rovo said:

Nenon, this will take a while before the connection diagram will be available. Is it possible that you share some photos of your current testing setup. The reason for this is that I will make my own chassis and with the photos I will get a better idea about the size requirements. I have already designed my own chassis (for a different micro ATX motherboard) and would like to get a feeling if the unregulated LPS will fit.

 

Currently the motherboard is in a Streacom FC5 chassis, but will be assembled in the new chassis with the Taiko DC-ATX and a Paul Hynes SR7T or the unregulated LPS.

 

 

 

How big is the chassis? Taiko's chassis is 19” x 15.7” x 6.2”, I don't think v3 would fit. The chassis on the pictures looks much smaller than that. 

Take a look at the BOM I posted. I've listed all the parts there. You can check their dimensions. The only dimensions that you can't find online are the transformer and the Taiko MOSFET rectifier. I don't have their dimensions handy at the moment but will provide them in due time. 

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, Rovo said:

Would this be the diagram for the unregulated LPS v3:

 

 

Yes, that's about right. 

I will end up using 3 x 47,000 uF caps at the end (instead of 1 x 22,000 uF + 2 x 47,000 uF). That will keep all 3 caps the same height and make it easier to use a thick pure copper busbar instead of wires.

 

Also, let me open a can of worms here. Don't assume v3 is better than v2. It's better in some ways but not in others. I think you guys should listen to both and decide which one you prefer. V2 gives you better clarity. V3 gives you crazy expansive sound (i.e. there are no wall boundaries in my room anymore type of thing) but you lack some clarity. I wish it was safe to add a switch and switch between the two, but it's probably not! I would encourage people to try both and decide what they like more. 

[Nenon]

1 minute ago, ted_b said:

Thanks....so, V3 lacks clarity compared to what?  V2 obviously...but how about V1 or other psu/ATX combos?  I ask cuz I am a Tesla M3 owner, and when I purchased it back in 2018 the sales folks said mine (the dual motor all-wheel long range edition) lacked a bit of torque compared to the performance model.  HA!!  Mine will break your neck if not careful so "lack of torque" is hilariously misleading for my needs; I can get around ANYTHING and more torque would simply ruin my tires faster.  🙂  Anyway.....you get my question....the lack of clarity in V3 may even be less than rounding error in even our most revealing systems (sans Taiko).

 

Haha, good point! Let's say the V3 has the potential to break your neck (in terms of clarity) but with V2 you would need neck protection when you drive :). 

 

When I say v3 lacks some clarity, it is in comparison to v2. We are on the cutting edge technology with both of these. For most people, v3 would have more clarity than anything else they have tried before. But at this level, the power supply is so transparent and revealing, that you can easily hear the impact of adding an extra choke. The choke is a coil of wire and it costs less than $30. How good can that wire be (1 meter of the Mundorf silver/gold wire a lot of us use here is ~$160)? Not very good obviously, and you can hear the impact. I wonder if @Peter Avgeris or someone else here can build us a similar choke with silver wire or just better quality copper wire? However, thanks to this choke and the other components in the circuit we reduce the ripple from 5mV to 5uV. For high current draw servers like the dual Xeon I am using that has a huge positive impact (larger than the lost of clarity). Everything is a compromise, so you guys need to decide what your compromise is. 

 

I personally would not go with v1. This is an option if you are hardly trying to build this on a budget. For me the two options are v2 and v3. There is about $500 difference between the two. It's actually a lot of fun to compare the two versions. It's worth the $500 admission fee. If you don't need the experimenting-entertaining value, then start with V2. When you are ready to have some fun, spend the extra $500 and enjoy the ride. 

[Nenon]

Don't forget this design is super efficient - we are using active mosfet rectification and GaN regulators. If it wasn't the transformer this whole thing would be 99%+ efficient. The transformer is the most inefficient component here. This choke (which btw is 10mH not 5mH) was not a good fit in a fully regulated LPS, but here is not a problem with my dual Xeon set up. But don't look at just that individual part. It's a well thought out design, carefully tested, and tweaked with the components I like over many listening tests. 

5A may seem like very little... But at 99% efficiency is not... and it works very good in practice. It's easy to implement, it sounds pretty good, and it's cheap to try (~$30).

 

With high current power supplies, we benefit from very low ripple. We have 5mV ripple with v2 and 5uV with v3. It's very illuminating to listen to v2 vs. v3 to understand exactly what the lower ripple does to the sound quality in a computer source. Everyone who has a chance should listen to that. V1 does not have a choke to limit the current. But I do prefer the sound of v2 and v3. 

 

A 10A choke would require a lot more capacitance not to overshoot. We need to be careful not to kill the Taiko ATX. I already killed one and have been super careful since that. I know Emile added protection after my incident, so maybe you won't kill the production units, but you would not have a reliable PSU unless you add that extra capacitance with a 10A choke. 

 

Lastly, just to clarify, I did not suggest a LC configuration. In the "Transformer --> Mosfet rectifier --> Hammond choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC 22,000 uF" version, there is a 22,000 uF Mundorf AG capacitor on the Mosfet rectifier board. Should have clarified that. 

[Nenon]

47 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

@Nenon whilst things are quite here at present, you posted previously you were going to post how to setup windows affinity etc on dual CPU’s. Using Asus sage board. 
 

I maybe see myself on a journey towards the dual cpu. Especially since I have the Taiko ATX card. 
 

I think users who plan to buy Taiko ATX, Unregulated PSU, Taiko case may be thinking about how to setup windows affinities etc. You posting how to do it may gather a lot more interest to go down that route. 
 

If you could do you write up that would be great. 
 

Cheers

 

Yes, I was planning to do that when I get the chassis and an opportunity to build a new server. I can document step by step what I do this way. It has been a long time of tweaking on my dual CPU server, and I don't remember everything but will gather the various bits and pieces together once I start from scratch.

 

I noticed a quite significant variable while doing tests with my DIY server. Every time I turned it off to make some changes and back on as part of my A/B tests, it sounded better. It took me some time to understand why but it became clear after a few tests. The HDPlex chassis runs a bit hot after my dual CPU is powered one for several hours/days. When I turn it off and all the components cool down, my server sounds quite a bit better! I knew there was a difference but did not expect it to be that big. With that variable in mind I had to redo most of my tests. 

 

After living for several weeks with V3 of the unregulated LPS, I decided to switch back to V2. I heard exactly what I heard the last time. V3 gives you a very expansive soundstage but loses some clarity. If clarity and transparency is what you are after, go with V2. If you prefer to have soundstage way beyond the walls of your listening room, then go with V3.
I had a pretty hard time deciding what I prefer. But I picked V3 for me and my system at the end. The good thing is it’s easy to switch from V3 to V2 when I get bored :). The main point is that V3 should not be considered an upgrade to V2. They are just two differnet sounding versions. Many people may prefer V2. I like the big and expansive soundstage on V3! 

 

Asked Emile about the chassis and the transformers. 

Transformers are due end of July. Seems like the transformer company was also affected by the raw materials shortage and delayed the order by several months. 

Chassis - well, the raw aluminum shortage was a problem, but Emile thinks he has secured enough aluminum for his Extreme chassis and for our DIY chassis. The good news is that all these delays took us to the time when Taiko is receiving their new state of the art CNC machine (end of this month I'm told), so they would be able to produce the DIY chassis in-house now! 

I do believe however that this would bring this project till the end of the summer! 

 

[Nenon]

5 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Any extreme owners compared the Taiko USB to the JCAT USB XE yet?

 

I've had a Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge card for a while, but decided to return it as the performance delta was not very large over JCAT USB XE -> Matrix Audio X-spdif 2 to warrant upgrade. The main difference was due to the ultraclock, with instrument placement (imaging) being cleaner (less haze around each instrument) on the pink faun.  How much better, not much, maybe 5% - so not big, but big enough to notice.  The Pink Faun Ultra Clocked spdif bridge is still the best bridge I've had so far mind.

 

So anyway, these findings lead me towards the Taiko USB which seems superb and USB is also more future proof than spdif... so probably a wiser investment.

 

(p.s. I presently use the USB XE to x-spdif 2 chain because Chord DAC's tend to sound better with spdif as noise generated internally to the DAC from the Amanero USB receiver is removed when USB is not in use.  I'll also be trying USB to spdif via SRC-DX courtesy of @Fourlegs shortly).

 

I had the Taiko USB card for a month in my system. A Taiko Extreme user loaned it to me. 

On 4/10/2021 at 9:00 AM, Nenon said:

 

 

It went through a pretty bad burn-in slope (connected directly to the DAVE DAC). After the first 7-10 days it settled and became really good. Unfortunately, I could not power it up with my Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS. It required 2 rails (5V and 12V), but also takes power from the PCIe slot. According to Emile, the 5V and the 12V rails need to come up at exactly the same time as the PCIe power. Given that the card was not mine, I did not want to risk damaging it and did not try powering by my DC4. It was powered by the 5V and 12V rails on the Taiko ATX instead.

 

I was planning to do a detailed comparison, but then Emile said the card will only be available to Extreme users. I decided it's not worth writing for something that we can't buy. So, let me keep this short. The day I had to remove the Taiko USB card and put back the JCAT USB XE was a sad day. If I had to summarize the differences, the Taiko USB is much more natural and organic sounding. Every tone and every instrument sounded more real, more believable. We know that when we hear live music somewhere on the street our ears/brain can tell it's live music and not a stereo system. The Taiko USB brought me closer to believing the instruments were real and not coming through my stereo system. And that's a big deal! It's also super transparent. My system has never been that transparent as it was with the Taiko USB card. There was also less noise, more depth, more air, the soundstage was bigger, etc. But those differences were more subtle... the organic and natural sound is what was striking and I liked the most. It was more analog sounding in a good way. 

 

After living for about a month with the Taiko USB card, I switched to my JCAT USB XE and what I immediately noticed was what I notice every time I switch to the JCAT XE USB card, which is boosted high frequency and bass. It almost feels like the XE has a V-shaped equalizer curve applied (not saying that's the case but that's how I perceive it in my system). However it took a few days and I got used to it, and I started liking it again.

BTW, all digital products or power supplies using LT3045 regulators I have heard have a unique sound signature that I contribute to the LT3045s. And I don't particularly like that sound signature to be honest.

 

I tend to agree with you on the differences between the JCAT USB XE and the pinkFaun USB with ultraOCXO clock. I've done many of these comparisons in the past.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun without OCXO clock --> I prefered the JCAT XE.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun with standard OCXO clock --> I prefered the JCAT XE.

- JCAT XE vs. pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock --> I prefered the pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock. But the difference is not that big and it's hard to justify the nearly double price. 

The improvement from JCAT XE to Taiko USB was a few notches bigger than the difference of going from the JCAT XE to the pinkFaun with ultraOCXO clock. In other words, the Taiko USB card is the best I've heard. It would have been an easy recommendation if available. But it's not. And that makes the JCAT XE my current choice. Unless of course you want to spend the extra money for the pinFaun with ultraOCXO. 

 

I also had a chance to listen to a brand new Taiko USB card a second time. This time I was using the SRC-DX between the Taiko USB and DAVE DAC. To my surprise, there was no burn-in nastiness at all. It was better for the few days in my system and more inline with what Taiko Extreme users were reporting on WBF. This is one of these high-end audio mysteries that would never get explained... it seems like the Amanero on the DAVE makes the Taiko USB card burn-in process horrible, and the USB on the SRC-DX behaves pretty nice with it. Go figure.

 

The other thing that was a pleasant surprise was that with the Taiko USB card, the network tweaks mattered less. They still made a difference but not as much as before. 

 

BTW, the SRC-DX is an easy recommendation for all DAVE DAC users. The only issue is that now you need good BNC cables. 

 

[Nenon]

35 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Why wouldn't he?  He could bundle it with the Taiko ATX and instruct folks it must be connected through it (so as to power up correctly).  Maybe I'm missing something.  That handshake (USB to DAC) is probably the biggest handshake in computer audio, and if Taiko has such a world beater, proven to have value even outside an Extreme, do it!

My guess is that the USB card (combined with TAS and Taiko's USB driver) would keep the Extreme on the top for some time, until Taiko comes up with some newer technology, at which point they can make the USB card available for DIY. 

 

There is major global parts and supply shortage at the moment. That might be another reason. Keep however many USB card can be produced for current and future Extreme users? 

 

I think we would be able to buy it at some point in the future. But probably not anytime soon... 

 

[Nenon]

The biggest strength of the Taiko ATX is to power the CPU, especially with power hungry CPUs. 

 

If your 12V EPS rail is consuming let's say less than 3A, and you have a high quality LPS, keep it. It would probably sound better than the Taiko ATX. Also, if you have a 3-rail good quality LPS (3.3V, 5V, 12V) to power the ATX connector, it would probably sound better.

 

However, if the CPU is drawing more current (my dual CPUs consume 7A), this is where the Taiko ATX really shines. But you can't just feed the Taiko ATX with any energizer. The Taiko ATX is as transparent as it gets, so you are essentially listening to to the quality of the energizer. Bad energizer - bad quality. Good energizer - good quality. This is why the unregulated LPS (i.e. energizer) plays a crucial role feeding the Taiko ATX. 

 

Can't wait for these transformers to be ready so you guys can hear what a good energizer can do with the Taiko ATX. 

As a general guideline, there are 4 things I found to be very important with the energizer:

1. Super low output impedance (ideally less than 2 mOhms).

2. High voltage (at least 25V, preferably 30-35V).

3. Very short cables and the thickest possible cables. That's also related to #1 (low output impedance), but I wanted to stress it enough. Those 1 meter 18 AWG Ghent cables a lot of us were using would demolish the performance here. Use at least 3 x 15-16 AWG wires (for 10-11 AWG combined wire gauge) and keep them as short as possible. The gauge and length is actually more important than the quality of the wire here. But if you can do all there (short, thick, and high-quality), even better.

4. Use high quality components and high quality design. 

 

The SR7T probably qualifies or can qualify for 3 out of the 4 things listed above, especially if you use short/thick/high-quality cables. But it's limited to 19V, and that's a problem. 

 

The second big benefit of the Taiko ATX is that it eliminates the multiple shared ground planes compared to using multiple linear power supplies. The benefit of that was apparent when I listened to the Taiko USB card in my system. That card was also powered by the Taiko ATX, and there was essentially just one ground. BTW, the network tweaks in my system started to make less difference, although they still did.  Pretty cool stuff!

However, with the XE USB card I found that powering with a Sean Jacobs DC4 sounded much better. I guess everything is a tradeoff :).

 

[Nenon]

7 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

1. Use case:
- Keces P8 20V to Taiko Audio DC-ATX
- Keces P8 12V to 8 pin CPU EPS
- Taiko Audio DC-ATX 12V to 4 pin CPU EPS

 

No power was drawn from the Keces P8 12V! The audio PC booted successfully anyway.

 

2. Use case:
- Keces P8 20V to Taiko Audio DC-ATX
- Keces P8 12V to 4 pin CPU EPS
- Taiko Audio DC-ATX 12V to 8 pin CPU EPS

 

No power was drawn from the Keces P8 12V! The audio PC booted successfully anyway.

 

Motherboards typically have only one 12V EPS rail. Even if there are multiple EPS connectors, they feed the same rail. Those Molex pins are rated at 5A. So an 8-pin connector can provide 20A (or 240W). For obvious reasons some motherboards may need more than 20A. And the solution for that is to add more EPS connectors. An 8-pin + 4-pin connectors would give you 30A (360W) theoretical limit. An 8-pin + 8-pin would give you 40A (480W). The dual CPU ASUS Sage motherboard has two 8-pin connectors and one 6-pin connector which can supply 55A (660W).

 

What happens when you connect the 4-pin and the 8-pin from two different power supplies?

If the power supplies have different output impedance, the power supply with lower impedance would be the better voltage source. In the case of Taiko ATX and Keces competing to deliver the 12V voltage, the Taiko ATX wins by a big margin and the Keces does not do anything. Hence, "No power was drawn from the Keces P8 12V! The audio PC booted successfully anyway.". You were essentially not utilizing the Keces. In that case it would probably be better to feed both EPS connectors from the Taiko ATX (i.e. more wires, lower resistance... see the end of this post). Or you may just feed the EPS with the Keces and not use the Taiko ATX.

That unfortunately also means the Keces has much higher output impedance, which does not make it a good candidate to feed the Taiko ATX. This is a case where a good unregulated LPS feeding the Taiko ATX would sound better. 

 

What happens when you connect two Keces P8 power supplies to the EPS, i.e. one to the 4-pin EPS and another to the 8-pin EPS?

Two Keces P8 power supplies would likely have similar impedance and will balance the load better. You are nearly doubling the current capabilities. Our CPUs like the extra current headroom and usually sound better. Not only that, but you are also reducing the output impedance in (nearly) half - when you have two resistors connected in parallel the equivalent resistance drops by half. The downside, or at least one of them, is that you have more potential for ground-related problems since you also parallel the two grounds. 

 

From the above, the picture should be clear that the lower the power supply output impedance, the better voltage source it is. Running more wires to the EPS, would decrease the wire resistance, and that certainly helps. 

I believe the 15.5AWG Mundorf silver/gold wire has about 3 mOhms resistance per foot. Need to double check, but let's assume for a moment that is correct. A 4-pin / 1-foot EPS cable would have about 1.5 mOhms resistance. An 8-pin / 1-foot EPS cable would have about 0.75 mOhms resistance. An 8-pin + 4-pin / 1 foot EPS cables would have about 0.50 mOhms resistance. This is why shorter, thicker, more wires help here. 

 

@sakso136 - to answer your question - yes, using an 8-pin instead of 4-pin EPS connector would most likely result in a little uptick in sound quality. The downside is It also doubles the price of the wire :). 

[Nenon]

1 minute ago, sakso136 said:

Thks for the clarification nenon.

My question rests unanswered though.... Hiw about powering the 4 pin left unconnected from the hd800?

 

Then you will run in the same situation as @StreamFidelity where the 12V Keces P8 and the 12V output from the HDPlex (Taiko ATX in StreamFidelity's case) would be connected in parallel to the 12V rail and would be fighting to supply current to the 12V rail. The results would be unpredictable. It's not impossible that the unpredictable result might sound better, but the chance is small, and it's not something I would do in my system.

You know my recommendation - sell the two Keces and HDPlex, build an unregulated LPS and get a Taiko ATX :).

 

4 minutes ago, sakso136 said:

I have a doubt also now,my mb have 12 or 8 pin connector? : )

Your motherboard has one 8-pin EPS connector. 

[Nenon]

41 minutes ago, magnium said:

@Nenon, what are your thoughts about using two Taiko ATX for one motherboard setup? Asking because I’m wondering if I could power a video card and need more connections to do so.  It looks like some cases have room for two PSUs.

 

The Taiko ATX excels in high current draw applications, which probably makes it a good option for GPUs. However, I don't have any first hand experience with that. If I was to guess, powering the GPU with one Taiko ATX and the computer with another might be a good option. Please report back if you try it. 

[Nenon]

12 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

@Nenon Is the plan to have separate case for V2 & V3 unregulated LPS? If so will the dimensions of the Taiko now change to a smaller footprint? Enough to cater for full ATX mobo & Taiko ATX?

 

The Taiko chassis will remain the same large size. We can figure out how things fit inside later. The idea is to have an all purpose / no compromise chassis for DIY experiments (or to be able to build a dual CPU Asus SAGE server). 

I would like to have the unregulated power supply right next to the Taiko ATX with very short cables in my build. The only downside of that is having a transformer in the same chassis as the motherboard. That was always audible in my past experiments. But according to Emile there are ways to take care of that, and that's something I will be consulting with him on. 

It's nice to have a one chassis server again... haven't had that in a long time.