Building a DIY Music Server

[Dev]

The issue with Hdplex H5 case which most of us are using in our DIY server is heat dissipation. The side panel heat sink is designed for CPU rated at 65watts TDP. Most of us are running way higher (>= 95 watts TDP) and thus overloading the heat sink. I run i9-10900k and it’s rated 125watts TDP which is almost twice the rated limit. It’s not the fault of the case. We are using it beyond its spec. folks using it with 65 watts TDP and less don’t complain about this. 
 

The only way to make up for it is either use the left side heat sink in conjunction to the right or blow an external fan to the side heat sink. I am doing the later for now and the temps has been reasonably cool below 40deg C.  I tried blowing additional pair of fans over the top of the case through the vents as well, though it further cooled down various parts of the system, the sound degradation due to vibration was just intolerable.

 

 

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Does anyone know what temperatures Taiko Extreme runs at? I appreciate dual CPU and not like for like. Just interested in knowing. 
 

@austinpop

 

I don't believe there is a native CPU temp monitor in WIndows 10 LTSC. I have not researched 3rd party tools. Has anyone else?

[internethandle]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

I don't believe there is a native CPU temp monitor in WIndows 10 LTSC. I have not researched 3rd party tools. Has anyone else?

 

"CoreTemp" has always ran in even the most anemic of W10 custom images I've made, LTSC or not. Works well, very low footprint, relatively current support:

 

https://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

 

 

 

 

[Dev]

In Windows 10 pro, I am using hwmonitor -  not only it provides CPU temps but a host of other monitoring as well, like temps, volts, power, etc. Very informative.

 

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

[MarcelNL]

@Dev I read the pecs for the H5 2nd gen hdplex case as 95TDP, which in my case is not enough anyhow, is that 65W from a previous iteration perhaps?

[MarcelNL]

perhaps we can put some numbers to the discussion about heat;

 

I'm running a Ryzen 9 3900X on a bog standard heat sink with fan, using a manual fan scheme to keep RPM down, CPU at max speed Normal voltages, CPU temp is hovering around 60'C. (No discernable bad effect from that temperature although going over 60'C seems to affect sound quality with things going a bit mushy)

 

Hoping to know more about what passive cooling does, and at what temp I end up later this week.

 

 

[MarkusBarkus]

@MarcelNLI ran the Taiko all night and removed the top. Just for you!

 

Temps were taken with IR thermometer, not via any software tools, FYI.

I shot the top-side of the transformer, since I had the top off. Ambient room temp = 72F.

[MarcelNL]

HIGHLY appreciated! Muchos Gracias!

 

I am going to test fly one heatsink first, rated @ 300W, first finding me a router bit to make a nice 6mm groove in it....MB will be mounted on a wooden board for POC to see if I need one or both heatsinks. 

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

33 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

I shot the top-side of the transformer, since I had the top off.

 

Thanks. But what do the CPU sensors say? I think you can read it out with HWMonitor.

[ASRMichael]

15 hours ago, Dev said:

The issue with Hdplex H5 case which most of us are using in our DIY server is heat dissipation. The side panel heat sink is designed for CPU rated at 65watts TDP. Most of us are running way higher (>= 95 watts TDP) and thus overloading the heat sink. I run i9-10900k and it’s rated 125watts TDP which is almost twice the rated limit. It’s not the fault of the case. We are using it beyond its spec. folks using it with 65 watts TDP and less don’t complain about this. 
 

The only way to make up for it is either use the left side heat sink in conjunction to the right or blow an external fan to the side heat sink. I am doing the later for now and the temps has been reasonably cool below 40deg C.  I tried blowing additional pair of fans over the top of the case through the vents as well, though it further cooled down various parts of the system, the sound degradation due to vibration was just intolerable.

 

 

To control vibration I hang my fans on string or tape from my hifi unit. Nothing touches the H5 case. I’m just blowing air gently away from the heatsink. 
 

Minimal vibration that way. 

[MarcelNL]

I don't think that is installed in the Extreme W LTSC build, and I can easily see anyone with that machine to be hesitant to go install third party stuff on it.

[MarcelNL]

@ASRMichael You need convection for those heatsinks to properly function, did you try without the fan but with no shelves under and over the computer case, like putting it on 5 cm or so feet/cones?

 

I manipulated some gear inside my current computer case and it makes 5'C of a difference already, just trying to create a logical unimpaired pathway for the air to rise up.

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

To control vibration I hang my fans on string or tape from my hifi unit. Nothing touches the H5 case. I’m just blowing air gently away from the heatsink. 
 

Minimal vibration that way. 

 

How OCD do we want to go? :)

Here is a photo of the Taiko listening room I snapped with my phone during my visit in July.

 

See the wooden box on the left? Under that box there is an open chassis Taiko Extreme server. It's one that Emile is tinkering with all the time. That's the Extreme I listened to. The one in the middle had some missing parts, and we never played it. 

When I saw this, my thought was: "What a great idea?! You can hide your prototypes from guests under this wooden case. And as a bonus, it looks good too. No random parts on the floor in the listening room (like there are always in my room)". Apparently I was wrong. That's not what the purpose of this wooden box was. It improves the sound. Since the chassis is open, the sound waves produced by the speakers impact the sound. The wooden box helps blocking some of that otherwise unnoticeable air movement. 

But wait there's more. Apparently the wooden box helps even when put over components with closed chassis as it is still blocking a lot of the air movement reaching the chassis. I had never thought of that. 

So that makes me wonder how good of an idea is a fan pointing towards the chassis even if it does not touch the chassis. But as the opening line of this post says: "How OCD do we want to go? :)".

 

BTW, you may wonder why none of the components are sitting on a rack or at least on a Daiza platform. I wondered that myself. It's because this a lab room and the idea is to remove any possible coloration created by accessories. 

[MarcelNL]

So far everything what I read/see Taiko doing makes perfect sense, to me the best way to assess changes is a minimalist approach that allows isolating the effect of the change just made. For me the answer is;  'full paranoia (or OCD) options 'on'!

 

(which causes the problem you are surely familiar with, getting inundated with iterations, and ending up with truckloads of material)

[Dev]

3 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

To control vibration I hang my fans on string or tape from my hifi unit. Nothing touches the H5 case. I’m just blowing air gently away from the heatsink. 

 

Yeah, I have toyed with the idea but my server sits on the top rack. So hanging is not possible. Right now the fans sit on the bottom chassis and doesn't touch the H5 case (its hard to see from the picture). I don't hear any difference between the side fans running vs not. However, the difference for the top fans that rests on the H5 case is huge. 

[MarcelNL]

did anyone try a thin bag filled with sand as vibration control inside the PC case already? (affects heat dissipation on the MB also, so perhaps not usable in the end)

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

How OCD do we want to go? :)

Here is a photo of the Taiko listening room I snapped with my phone during my visit in July.

 

See the wooden box on the left? Under that box there is an open chassis Taiko Extreme server. It's one that Emile is tinkering with all the time. That's the Extreme I listened to. The one in the middle had some missing parts, and we never played it. 

When I saw this, my thought was: "What a great idea?! You can hide your prototypes from guests under this wooden case. And as a bonus, it looks good too. No random parts on the floor in the listening room (like there are always in my room)". Apparently I was wrong. That's not what the purpose of this wooden box was. It improves the sound. Since the chassis is open, the sound waves produced by the speakers impact the sound. The wooden box helps blocking some of that otherwise unnoticeable air movement. 

But wait there's more. Apparently the wooden box helps even when put over components with closed chassis as it is still blocking a lot of the air movement reaching the chassis. I had never thought of that. 

So that makes me wonder how good of an idea is a fan pointing towards the chassis even if it does not touch the chassis. But as the opening line of this post says: "How OCD do we want to go? :)".

 

BTW, you may wonder why none of the components are sitting on a rack or at least on a Daiza platform. I wondered that myself. It's because this a lab room and the idea is to remove any possible coloration created by accessories. 

Thanks for the info. I do think it’s a trade-off. Lower Temps v air flow. In my case having such low temps improves the SQ, even if there is air flow. I’ve tried without the fans and it doesn’t sound as good. 
 

I recall you saying how much better your system sounded on startup. It’s like that all the time due to low temps. 30c. 
 

My server sits on Symposium Ultra Platform & HDSE Rollerblocks. That might have something to do with why I’m not experiencing any negatives from the fans. 
 

& Yes you have activated my OCD. 
 

Hopefully we can see a Taiko case soon so I can remove the fans & keep low temps. 
 

 

[ASRMichael]

On 9/6/2021 at 4:08 PM, MarcelNL said:

@ASRMichael You need convection for those heatsinks to properly function, did you try without the fan but with no shelves under and over the computer case, like putting it on 5 cm or so feet/cones?

 

I manipulated some gear inside my current computer case and it makes 5'C of a difference already, just trying to create a logical unimpaired pathway for the air to rise up.

Please explain further. Here is my server front view? 
 

 

[MarcelNL]

@ASRMichael I am not clear which of the boxes is your server, I responded to the picture of the fans cleverly attached to the glass shelf over them.

 

If the server is covered the flow of air, which only gets momentum (power) from the heat dissipating into it, is easily impaired reducing the chimney function of the heatsink which in turn decreases the heat capacity of the heat sink. That is...if there is insufficient room underneath or over the heatsink. I assume the second from the top is your server?

 

The (panzerholz?) shelf underneath seems narrow enough to leave the heatsinks free, yet the space between the top of the heatsink and the shelf appears too small for max free air flow. 

 

All of that is theory and only you can test it, if you can I'd move the server (if the second from the top actually is the server) to the side so the heatsink sticks well out of the shelves and shut off the fan and see what it does. If the heatsink is under dimensioned your temperature probably goes up anyhow and adding a fan is probably best, adding the fan is also something you possibly could optimise by trying to create a sort of funnel channeling the air to flow from in a laminar way in parallel with the fins (top down or bottom up over the fins rather than sideways at them. 

[ASRMichael]

2 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

@ASRMichael I am not clear which of the boxes is your server, I responded to the picture of the fans cleverly attached to the glass shelf over them.

 

If the server is covered the flow of air, which only gets momentum (power) from the heat dissipating into it, is easily impaired reducing the chimney function of the heatsink which in turn decreases the heat capacity of the heat sink. That is...if there is insufficient room underneath or over the heatsink. I assume the second from the top is your server?

 

The (panzerholz?) shelf underneath seems narrow enough to leave the heatsinks free, yet the space between the top of the heatsink and the shelf appears too small for max free air flow. 

 

All of that is theory and only you can test it, if you can I'd move the server (if the second from the top actually is the server) to the side so the heatsink sticks well out of the shelves and shut off the fan and see what it does. If the heatsink is under dimensioned your temperature probably goes up anyhow and adding a fan is probably best, adding the fan is also something you possibly could optimise by trying to create a sort of funnel channeling the air to flow from in a laminar way in parallel with the fins (top down or bottom up over the fins rather than sideways at them. 

Thanks for info. Yes 2nd shelve is my server. The sides are fully open. Yes, Panzerholz wood, drilled holes at bottom for airflow.  I think I could move it to the top shelve, and try reposition the fans. Will report back on my findings with fans on and off, and differences in temperature. I'll try at the weekend and see how it goes. Cheers. 

[ASRMichael]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:39 PM, Nenon said:

 

How OCD do we want to go? :)

Here is a photo of the Taiko listening room I snapped with my phone during my visit in July.

 

 

 

BTW, you may wonder why none of the components are sitting on a rack or at least on a Daiza platform. I wondered that myself. It's because this a lab room and the idea is to remove any possible coloration created by accessories. 

BTW, the main reason I use Symposium gear is as a result of naturality. I tried everything from Still Points, IsoAcoustic feet, and many others. I always thoughts they added something to the music. IMHO Symposium doesn't. But I fully understand why Taiko does this. 

[MarcelNL]

souds good, and good luck, I hope your build is ( and it sure looks like it) is more stable than mine, each time I move it around something gets loose and I need to troubleshoot for an hour or so...very frustrating for someone with little patience for silly things.

 

I am however going to test fly the prototype for passive cooling later this week, so I need to rip the thing apart to see where the drill holes to mount the heat sink need to come and where to router the grooves for the heat pipes....fingers crossed...heat sink is rated for 300W so I hope 1 does the trick but I got me two to be safe.

[ASRMichael]

11 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

@ASRMichael I am not clear which of the boxes is your server, I responded to the picture of the fans cleverly attached to the glass shelf over them.

 

If the server is covered the flow of air, which only gets momentum (power) from the heat dissipating into it, is easily impaired reducing the chimney function of the heatsink which in turn decreases the heat capacity of the heat sink. That is...if there is insufficient room underneath or over the heatsink. I assume the second from the top is your server?

 

The (panzerholz?) shelf underneath seems narrow enough to leave the heatsinks free, yet the space between the top of the heatsink and the shelf appears too small for max free air flow. 

 

All of that is theory and only you can test it, if you can I'd move the server (if the second from the top actually is the server) to the side so the heatsink sticks well out of the shelves and shut off the fan and see what it does. If the heatsink is under dimensioned your temperature probably goes up anyhow and adding a fan is probably best, adding the fan is also something you possibly could optimise by trying to create a sort of funnel channeling the air to flow from in a laminar way in parallel with the fins (top down or bottom up over the fins rather than sideways at them. 

Good example this is on a forum, If you don't quite understand something then don't be scared to ask for further info. Understanding further usually leads to improvements. Cheers again

[MarcelNL]

2 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Good example this is on a forum, If you don't quite understand something then don't be scared to ask for further info. Understanding further usually leads to improvements. Cheers again

that is what I like about (good) fora, the presence of many folks with different backgrounds usually brings a wealth of knowledge to my screen. Disclaimer; do not get your hopes up too high as far as actual temp decrease goes, you may be at an optimum already!

(I started out in chemical engineering and we were hammered with air flow and fluid dynamics pretty seriously)

[ASRMichael]

Just now, MarcelNL said:

that is what I like about (good) fora, the presence of many folks with different backgrounds usually brings a wealth of knowledge to my screen. Disclaimer; do not get your hopes up too high as far as actual temp decrease goes, you may be at an optimum already!

(I started out in chemical engineering and we were hammered with air flow and fluid dynamics pretty seriously)

What heatsink you using? 300w? That’s huge difference.