Building a DIY Music Server

[Marcin_gps]

2 hours ago, Gavin1977 said:

Killer features, I hope @Marcin_gps is taking note :-)

Of course having 'audio' related traffic on separate NIC and subnet is beneficial. 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

Because the OPTIMO 3 DUO power supply unit features two completely independent galvanically isolated DC outputs, each output having an independent isolated ground, it is possible to power any two devices at the same time, without any loss of quality.

In other words, the OPTIMO 3 DUO, is the equivalent of 2 separate hi-end linear power supplies.

 

[Marcin_gps]

54 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Marcin

Unless it uses separate transformers for both sections then it will never be quite as good as 2 separate hi-end linear power supplies assuming that they both  share a common earth reference. There is always some minor degradation when using separate secondary windings on the same transformer as I found when making 2 low noise regulated PSUs for USB use.

Kind Regards

Alex

I agree that a separate power transformer would be better, but the difference using 2x optimo psus vs. using two outputs on a single optimo is minor. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

 

PS

This post should have gone to JCAT club. I thought I posted this over there - sorry! 

 

[Marcin_gps]

On 11/12/2020 at 10:03 PM, sandyk said:

Marcin

Unless it uses separate transformers for both sections then it will never be quite as good as 2 separate hi-end linear power supplies assuming that they both  share a common earth reference. There is always some minor degradation when using separate secondary windings on the same transformer as I found when making 2 low noise regulated PSUs for USB use.

Kind Regards

Alex

Alex, just  to add 2 cents: the power transformer in optimo 3 duo has lower inductance which makes it much larger compared to other transformers of similar power. And that results in a more stable magnetic stream. There is almost no audible difference between using 2 separate optimo 3 duo psus and one with 2 outputs. 

 

Regards, 
Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

I will just leave it here

 

https://jcat.eu/the-revolution-in-digital-audio-is-about-to-begin-optimo-atx-psu-final-prototype-sneak-peak/

[Marcin_gps]

8 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Live the timing of this post. Good on you Marcin. Competitive market place. 

 

It was a coincidence. I've not checked this topic for a while and was not even aware that taiko is releasing a dc-atx board. 

 

But I have to admit-   the timing was perfect :)

 

Regards, 
Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

I've had quite a few requests to build computers for other people over time that I had to turn down due to my affiliation with Sean Jacobs, or lack of time, or simply not having enough interest in the particular build. But I have always been trying to help as much as I can. 

 

@dminches reached out for help some time ago. He has a pretty impressive analog rig. The complaint was that his digital system could never sound like his analog. He had a Lampizator Pacific DAC, which is certainly not the bottleneck. We started improving his digital source piece by piece. After trying some of the things I suggested to him (trying Euphony, Optane drive, PinkFaun USB card with OCXO clock, etc.) he realised the potential, although he was very sceptical that digital could ever sound as good as his analog rig. I told him that the only way he could cross to the next level is to fix the power supply feeding his computer. We got Sean Jacobs involved and designed a linear power supply for @dminches. I built the custom DC4 power supply for him, and this is a picture I found from the building process:

(by the quality of this photo, I can tell it was taken with my phone that was a couple of generations old)

 

It's a massive linear power supply, built as a cost no object project, that can make almost any server sing. After changing the mediocre LPS he was using, he was quite impressed. Two-three months later (that's how long it takes for the LPS to burn-in) I started receiving messages from him how this power supply was a game changer. The long story short, @dminches for the first time started enjoying his digital almost as much as his analog. However the keyword here is "almost". He told me that his digital was almost as good as his analog, but his reel to reel is still better. He said he does not expect the digital to ever be as good as the R2R, but he is enjoying digital a lot now. 

 

We talked more about this, and I told him if he wants to go to the next step, he needs to buy a Taiko Extreme. He asked me if the Taiko Extreme would be better than his DIY server, and my answer was a definite "YES". A few more months passed, and he pulled the trigger on a Taiko Extreme. He wasn't very impressed at the beginning, but that's normal as it needs some burn-in time. It kept getting better and better over time. He got TAS and recently added the Taiko USB card. It was the Taiko USB card that made a big difference (and the burn-in period I am sure), and he decided to keep the Extreme. 

 

His DIY server and DC4 have been listed for sale now:

 

@dminches sent me a 1 bit DSD transfer from his reel to reel yesterday. It was a direct recording from the safety mastertape. I was blown away by how this DSD file sounded! No wonder he thinks his analog still sounds better. It's the way the music was recorded and mastered! Not the noisy hissy magnetic tape. His DSD tape transfer can put many modern digital recordings to shame. I really enjoy the DSD file played through my digital system. It puts many of my vinyls to shame as well. 

So I told @dminches I will post this only if he transfers another album of my choice from reel to reel to DSD! There you go @dminches - now waiting for that DSD file...  Just kidding :). I did not tell him that... But I still expect that DSD file :). 

 

The real reason I am posting this is not to advertise his classified but to add perspective to some of the things we have discussed and give a real world example of how some of the DIY servers we are building compare to the top commercial products. I thought it would be interesting for people to read.

 

The power supply that I built for @dminches was the game changer for him. I had a similar power supply powering my dual CPU server before switching to the Taiko ATX. And here is the truth about linear power supplies: they work amazingly good for low current applications. But when you get to high current draws like the dual Xeon CPUs in the Extreme, regulated LPS is not the best technology to use. I would use and recommend the Taiko ATX with the unregulated LPS for the dual CPU project. In fact I would put this against any regulated LPS, no matter the price, including the high current DC4 I built for @dminches. I compared the two in my system and had a hard time deciding. But the Taiko ATX + unregulated LPS for the dual Xeon project sounded more transparent.  And that is an important part of voicing the server. 

 

For lower current CPUs, we need to test what works better. I am guessing a good regulated LPS would have advantages there. And I certainly prefer a regulated LPS on my USB / network card, network devices, DACs, etc. 

 

@Nenonchallenge accepted!

 

There is no way ANY switching power supply can compete with a truly linear PSU

[Marcin_gps]

46 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Would love to be a fly on the wall during the listening sessions! (if they ever do come to fruition).

 

Can we please make this happen? :)

TAIKO DC-ATX + ... ? vs OPTIMO ATX?

[Marcin_gps]

4 minutes ago, RickyV said:

whats the price of the optimo atx?

Will be announced during the launch with all the details and pictures in the final enclosure. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

1 minute ago, Dev said:

 

@Marcin_gpswhat are the specs ? what kind of servers are you using to test this currently ? I am curious if you have plans to test with high power cpu with turbo boost, like an i9 K version ? 

Please check 4 last posts on JCAT blog for more details: https://jcat.eu/editorial/

 

According to intel specification, max supported CPU TDP is 95W. Please see the table below:

[Marcin_gps]

9 minutes ago, matthias said:

@OAudio

Thanks for your post.

 

IMHO, the Taiko DC-ATX is a much superior design and can not be compared to standard DC-ATX.

The proof is in the listening, that is what @Nenon did, comparing it to one of the best LPS (if not the best).

 

Matt

Matt, are there any technical specifications or measurements to back up the superiority of Taiko DC-ATX? I'm sure this would be of interest to averyone in this thread and potential buyers. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

@Nenon has a great experience, I have zero doubts about this. But the fact that he got the Taiko USB card as a non-SGM Extreme owner should ring a bell. As you all probably know, the Taiko USB Card is not available to purchase for anyone but Taiko SGM Extreme owners. I trust that this special treatment did not impact his objective opininion about the Taiko DC-ATX, but I'd like to see more reviews and comparisons before calling Taiko DC-ATX superior to all products on the martket. 

 

Full disclosure:@Nenonbought many products from me. I have no intention to doubt him. But l'd recommend waiting for more user reviews before calling Taiko DC-ATX the best. I would like to see a comparison to my upcoming OPTIMO ATX. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

1 minute ago, matthias said:

 

He got this card as loaner for testing from a friend who is an Extreme owner.

 

Matt

OK, fair enough. 

[Marcin_gps]

I'd like to believe he's doing this purely as an enthusiast. But the fact that the Taiko DC-ATX order form is not available on Taiko website nor in the official Taiko sticky thread on whatsbestforum and was first posted here by @Nenon does not make him objective and this can't be debated. 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

7 minutes ago, bit01 said:

@Marcin_gps- Do you please have a target price for this OPTIMO ATX ?

 

Thanks.

b.

4000-5000 EUR

[Marcin_gps]

13 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

...I suppose then, neither could the comments from a competitor be considered objective. 

 

Absolutely! 

[Marcin_gps]

But I'd like to see hard data to justify Taiko DC-ATX superiority other than an opinion of 2 users. 

 

EOT

[Marcin_gps]

@Nenon

 

Thank you for your lenghty report and full transparency! 

 

Last year, before JCAT USB XE release, I had a chat with Emile - I sent him one of the early versions of the USB XE card and there was a plan to have a Taiko special version of the USB XE for the SGM Extreme. But Emile decided to go his own route with the USB card and told me that his card will not share any of the parts used in USB XE and that he will not compete with me as the card is only  for his customers. I am glad that he kept his word. 

 

Now back on the power supplies - it will get interesting with so many new options - with so many options availble, I'm sure everyone will find sth good for his scenario (and budget)

 

Regards, 

Marcin

[Marcin_gps]

31 minutes ago, Topk said:

Data points.... What’s the total capacitance? I know Pink Faun 2.16 has about 800K and Taiko about the same (on top of my mind)

 

Also what’s the brand of the caps? We know Taiko uses Mundorf and Duelund. 

110.000 uF per rail so 330.000uF in total in the power supply section.  (Taiko mentions 700k in the spec on their website)

 

The capacitors were selected for both their properties and best sound during R&D while keeping the cost and final price of the PSU affordable. 

 

The headline is this: OPTIMO ATX is the world's first truly linear ATX power supply. It is a unique product that has no competition. (if you know a similar product, please mention it)

 

By world's frst truly linear ATX power supply I mean that:

- it complies with ATX 2.2 restrictive norm

- it has very advanced power management system with real-time monitoring of key parameters

- it is safe for end user and the equipment: complies with directive 2014/35/UE EMC, 2014/30/UE RoHS 2, 2011/65/UE, EN 62368-1, EN 50419 and EN-61558-1.

 

Taiko uses DC-ATX converter in their server. 

 

To be continued

[Marcin_gps]

2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

"MULTI-STAGE ULTRA LINEAR POWER SUPPLY

Our 400W linear power supply is a new inhouse development, especially created for the Extreme and its special needs. It is comprised of only the very best capacitors from Mundorf and Duelund, combined in a way we found to be most neutral to the sound. The chokes are supplied from Lundahl and were selected also by ear."

 

Matt

In combnation with DC-ATX switching board. 

 

[Marcin_gps]

2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Can you provide a link for this assumption?

Thanks

 

Matt

400W truly linear PSU can not power 2 Xeons. Hence my assumption

[Marcin_gps]

4 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

My main question for the PSU is, how much of an effect does AC ripple have on SQ AKA how much ripple current is acceptable? I mean to adequately filter 20Amps or so @12V you need a whopping capacitance, however if that ripple decreases due to the MB creating 1 V out of the 12V there is a reasonable chance that the remaining ripple current decreases.

 

 

 

It will be known to the public soon. 

[Marcin_gps]

Why OPTIMO ATX PSU is such a breakthrough 

 

 

If you look at the graph above, the green line shows output voltage, the X axis shows time in ms and turquise line shows load.

You can observe superb response for step change of load (1A to 23A). The ripple is almost non-existent. 

pic_01_smoothing_capacitors_16.97v_10mf_x11.png.webp

[Marcin_gps]

The situation on the graph is the most extreme, in real life, and for a music server, if intensive DSP is disabled, the ripple will be in µV. For a truly linear ATX power supply this is a huge achievement. 

[Marcin_gps]

Just now, matthias said:

 

So you are publicly claiming that the info Taiko Audio is providing on their HP is false?

 

Matt

Yes, this is my assumption, unless they prove otherwise. 

 

I am disclosing full specs and details of the OPTIMO ATX, so everyone can judge for himself. 

 

What I see on Taiko Website and in the pictures are only renowned capaciitors and transformers. What is underneath is not disclosed as far as I know.