Jump to content
IGNORED

Building a DIY Music Server


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

Would be interesting to hear two extremes or statements as two box setups.

 

The Taiko Extreme is actually two servers in one case.

IIRC, two Extremes do not sound superior to one.

This may be different to Innuos and Pink Faun.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Nenon said:

There is no comparison between the Sonore products and the custom DIY servers we are building. But our hand built servers are quite more expensive too. 

 

Sonore do not build servers. So the comparison is always custom DIY server plus Sonore vs custom DIY server alone.

I bet what the outcome is when the server is good enough.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Nenon said:

I think there is a general (mis)concept that USB and ethernet ports that are not CPU-direct sound worse than CPU-direct. While this may be the most common case, it is not ALWAYS the case. Taiko Extreme's USB port goes through the ASM controller, and it sounds really really good - it's actually very hard to beat. My Asus ROG Crosshair build with ultraOCXO chipset clock is another example - after the clock upgrade the chipset USB ports started to sound significantly better than the direct CPU USB ports. Also, when you add a PCIe card to a PCIe slot that is CPU-direct, the card has chips on it as well, so you are not bypassing the controller chips. I know you referred to ethernet NICs, but they also have controllers. The Extreme comes with a Startech PEX1000SFP2 PCIe card, and many owners prefer that.

 

+1

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
16 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Aren't these comparisons of the extreme and similar a bit skewed?  99.9% of the people will never have / afford such a device. 

 

Which then begs the question, where does the hypothetical "custom server" price point (direct connect to DAC) start to where some believe it surpasses a well implemented endpoint?  Which even stating that is pretty wide to interpretation / many variables.

 

The endpoint vs non endpoint (or direct connect) discussion are like cable discussions in many ways. 

 

I am genuinely curious though and have toyed with the idea, just haven't found a conceivable way to test the "theory".  I have tried with the resources available to me (multiple high end wkst in so far as performance), but the endpoint has won out.  Can't really justify spending $5k (whatever that number is) just to see so to speak.

 

You get the benefit without endpoint at much lower price points, please have a look at post #342.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
45 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Yeah I don't quite understand that.  An extremely well optimized (clocking, USB reg) optical endpoint using LPS, is bettered by a noisy computer albeit with a good USB output (jcat).  I certainly don't discount that in any way and every setup is going to be different - in most cases drastically different.  That's why like cables, there isn't any general rule that says method 1 is better then method 2.

 

My experience has been the opposite, although the USB output from server isn't "audiophile".  However, t is running 2019 SVR, W2135, custom MB, ECC mem, rtx graphics etc..(significant cost).  I suppose for a small layout one could try a dedicated USB card. 

 

I would love to get my hands on one of these builds (not crazy $$) and experiment for myself.  

 

Maybe it helps when you consider taking the money what your endpoint plus PS costs and upgrade with this amount your server, for example with an UHQ USB card like @guiltyboxswapper

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
  • 7 months later...

@Nenon

 

Hi Nenon,

 

as TAS is based on LMS it could work on different platforms.

 

Do you know if Taiko Audio have plans to offer TAS as software player (without hardware) like Audirvana etc. on different platforms?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

 

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment

@Nenon

 

I am just curious why Taiko do not offer an AC to ATX SMPS to get rid of the unregulated linear PS or as alternative a second AC to DC SMPS to feed the DC to ATX SMPS.

 

Please, can you shed some light on this?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Nenon said:

This is essentially a design by Taiko. All my tests have been done with Emile's involvement.

 

Might this very interesting design find eventually in the future its way into the Extreme, maybe with higher specs?

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
18 minutes ago, Nenon said:

The parts I am using at the moment are less than $1,000 and that is the deluxe version with a bunch of VCAP film caps. 

 

That would be 2250 USD for the complete PS with the Taiko parts and is then less expensive than the JCAT or Farad solution and probably less than SJ as well.

 

Most certainly better SQ than the alternatives?

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment

@Nenon

 

"So anyway, there are definitely merits in exploring Switch Mode Power Supplies for audiophile applications, the benefits over Linear Power Supplies are obvious, if implemented correctly, it can be much lower noise then a Linear Power Supply for higher current applications, have a much smaller footprint and no massive heatsinking requirements, BUT they should be designed to not have any switching "noise" anywhere near the audio frequency range, or even better yet no measurable residual whatsoever."

 

This quote from Emile mirrors exactly what I think about SMPS, and I mean audiophile SMPS up to the highest standards like the Taiko DC-ATX.

We are at the beginning of real audiophile SMPS which IMHO will surpass the best LPS in the end.

The core of my question on WBF was not addressed to upsampling but to sound quality, I dare to say when Emile puts all his genius into designing a superlative SMPS for the Extreme it might be outperforming his best LPS.

 

Matt

 

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

From what I can see of the pictures of the Insides of Extreme published, it's already using buck converters and not linear regulators and I'm assuming this DC - ATX is based on that system?

High powered linear regulators need high heat dissipation and there do not appear to be any regulators fitted onto the heatsinks. placing them below would mean they heat up the base and the rest of the components above. Well I'm just guessing I would be interested to know.

I'm currently using a C-L-C Filter with HDplex 800 DC-ATX. An 'Audiopile' DC - ATX would be perfect.

 

MULTI-RAIL ULTRA LINEAR POWER SUPPLY

Our 400W linear power supply is a new inhouse development, especially created for the Extreme and its special needs. (from Taiko HP)

 

Matt

 

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
11 hours ago, Nenon said:

I personally don't feel like putting an AC SMPS in front of the Taiko ATX would be a step in the right direction. I think we get the best of both worlds the way this is.

 

The more I think about it the more I agree, it really seems to be the best of both worlds.

 

Matt

 

 

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
19 hours ago, Nenon said:

The last comment I want to make is that no matter how advanced the SMPS technology becomes, to me a well designed LPS is still the best option for powering low current devices. I do power my USB card on my server with a Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS and that makes a hell of difference. I find it best to use the right technology where it matters. For a dual CPU server that can easily draw 300W, this SMPS technology makes sense and works great. But for low current applications, nothing can beat a good old linear power supply. That's my 2 cents. I imagine that we can draw a line somewhere and say for everything under this line LPS is the way to go; for everything over that line SMPS is the way to go. I can easily see powerful amplifiers going over this line. Sorry about the generalizing paragraph :). 

 

Nenon,

I think it is really interesting that Emile in his "white paper" post on WBF mentioned that even in the range from 500mA up (which is typical for an USB card) DC-DC SMPS can have advantages in comparison to LPS.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

If I have to draw a line, it would be like this:

3A or less - Well designed LPS rules. 1A or less has huge advantages here. 

3A to 5A - Depends on the design of the power supply.

More than 5A constant draw - Well designed SMPS rules. 

 

An AMD 7 3700x running Euphony is closer to the 3A limit. Maybe even less.

The dual Xeon Cpus are more like 7A. You can see why I am going with the Taiko ATX for the dual Xeon. 

 

I agree, this is the status of the current tech, maybe Emile is one step further with his DC-DC

SMPS.

But to have an unregulated LPS which outputs to an DC-DC SMPS is brilliant.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
7 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

I don't know any people with Vivaldi DAC and clock building DIY servers. But I do know several people with Vivaldi DAC + DAC who have Taiko Extreme. And as far as I know they all preferred to ignore the DCS recommendation and connect the Taiko Extreme via USB.

You are obviously not a Vivaldi + Extreme user, but the Bartok and this DIY recipe can be considered their smaller siblings. I suspect whatever works best with Vivaldi + Extreme would apply to you as well.

My suggestion would be to dig into the Taiko thread on WBF and see what Vivaldi + Taiko are actually doing. Or ask there if you can't find any info. 

If I was to guess, your Bartok would work better with USB and this server than any ethernet streamer. But that's just a guess. I have no real experience with dCS DACs. And I have been proven wrong before. 

 

+1

 

Reading the complete Extreme thread on WBF I did not come across a set-up with Extreme where a DAC connected to an endpoint (or an Ethernet-DAC) did sound better than the direct (mostly USB) connection to Extreme.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
9 hours ago, Nenon said:

Yes, I did. My Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS had more depth and more air. The Taiko solution was faster and more transparent.

 

Just for clarification:

 

With the SJ DC4 there was no additional DC-DC ATX converter involved?

You mean with the Taiko solution: Unregulated LPS plus Taiko DC-DC ATX?

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
10 hours ago, Nenon said:

I am currently feeding my computer with an unregulated LPS + Taiko ATX and my JCAT XE card with a DC4 for those who are wondering. 

 

Did you find time to compare powering the JCAT XE via DC4 vs via the 5V/4A output from the Taiko ATX?

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, dctom said:

I asked as I have increasingly speculated about which is the most important  component the server or  DAC. 

 

Sorry, but do exist any claims that the DAC is more important than the server?

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Darryl R said:

I'd like to ask someone to very briefly explain why they think non-regulated DC will work in the DIY server (apart from budget or whether they like it better or not).

 

The classic LPS uses an unregulated LPS plus a regulator stage.

The Nenon/Taiko PS uses an unregulated LPS plus the Taiko DC-DC ATX.

 

>>>The regulator stage has a similar effect as the DC-DC SMPS converter.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...