Building a DIY Music Server

[di-fi]

20 minutes ago, dminches said:

 

Actually, you did.

 

You wrote "Regarding the power supply used in Taiko SGM Extreme and the lack of Taiko response, plus the fact that Taiko removed @matthias question in the official Taiko Extreme thread is enough for me to draw conclusions. "

 

"..Taiko removed..."

Building a DIY Music Server 

If we only could avoid and remove some personal comments here, we all could benefit from a reset.

 

please pm

[di-fi]

On 5/2/2021 at 1:25 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

You now can hide posts from view. 

@NenonWhile you have an "eraser" could you also use it for the way too long last April 15th discussion that led to a separate post from Marcin? No hard feelings but it seemed it made many feel uncomfortable, having no place here. Disagreement is ok but THIS could have been discussed in private. Enjoy your holidays, I love reading this thread.

[di-fi]

Not sure if this is the right place but I mainly follow this thread and the Euphony thread. I know users here go to great lenghts to get the best LPS's they can afford. Sound quality depends a lot on them we all agree, so that easily  justifies spending.

But is anyone aware of LPS life expectancy? Hard to measure, but based on experience, how long should / will they last?

 

I am asking because in the last months I had 2 LPS die (3 and 4 years old) and also one of the powerbricks to feed the LPS started humming ( I won't use it any more). Past warranty unfortunately (up to 3 years). Currently repair is impossible due to parts that can not be sourced, so it's a total loss for me. 

 

Jay @ AudioBacon just did an amazing ''The World’s Best Audiophile Linear Power Supplies comparison'', with I think the DC4 @ $7,500 being the most expensive. I am in for 2 new LPS's but spending this much how long will/should they last?

 

Please let me know if this is worth a new topic or if this is allready posted somewhere.

[di-fi]

So LPS can die after 3-4 years or sometimes 6 years. 24x7 that is.

 

I am using Uptone (3 yrs)  and Farad (2 yrs)

 

Example of LPS components hard to source or hugely expensive according to my manufacturer (quote) : ''Particularly impossible has been the main FPGA used as well as the 10-per-board opto-isolators.  We usually pay xxx for the FPGA.  A spot-market source in (edit) just quoted us xxx each! 34x!  Impossible and insane.''

 

That's a huge problem for manufacturers, great warranty or not

[di-fi]

15 minutes ago, Soul Analogue said:

Oh FPGA processors…. Yes i agree this thing is quite fragile…

but i dont see the real need to incorporate one into a pure audiophile lps….except for some fancy features like thermal monitoring, user selectable voltage settings… these features and the FPGA create interference and noise to the psu output… 

I am talking about LPS that are available on the market today (and the list is very long) not so much the concept behind. Although understanding what is inside might help to select an LPS with more durable components. Thats the advice I am looking for.

 

I think 3-4 years is not good enough for a 450$-650$ LPS. Or the other way round, if those last only 3-4 years I might go sooner with Sean Jacobs for example ;-). Where is the break-even point? For example if I paid 150-200$ a year that equals  a 1000$ LPS (if it lastst 10 years) I probably get better sound also .  

 

So replacing both my broken LPS I will definitely need to evaluate duarbility of components.

[di-fi]

18 hours ago, Superdad said:

Thanks for the write up Alex! Look forward to hear how you experience Fibbrcable.

You mentioned many things, I will pick only one:

'' HDMI cable (wow those cables can sound really different!)''

Do you mind sharing what is/are a keeper(s), in your setup between SingXer and Holo Spring Level 3?

Thanks

 

 

[di-fi]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:09 AM, Nenon said:

I haven't seen or listened to the Farad superATX

are incomparable on so many levels 

 

It seems to me this is walking a thin line knowing your opinion is valued by many here. Read out of context you say that A is not as good as B without listening: 1) on a forum where sharing user experience is encouraged and 2) being affiliated to B   
I do know where you are coming from, and without a doubt your good intentions, but again out of context it makes me feel a little uncomfortable when you are giving a disadvantage to Farad without a listen and before official launch. 

[di-fi]

On 6/27/2022 at 2:50 PM, baconbrain said:

@ciccio1112

 

Also would be curious to know who was your source for the RAM? (if you don’t mind sharing)

 

Thx

https://www.soselectronic.com/

Gabriela Hricová

Usually much better pricing than the “from the usual” US Apacer pricing. depending where you are save up to more than 50%. ;-) responsive, reliable ( I ordered 3 ram sets so far)
 

[di-fi]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:27 AM, MarcelNL said:

I was referring to the Samsung Evo or Sabrent Rocket for storage indeed, I'm using the femto for the OS (that is where it's impact is largest, and I convert all local FLAC's and load to RAM before playing)

@MarcelNL do you mean you cache to a partition on the Femto M2 where also the OS resides? Your OS =? Thanks!

[di-fi]

On 9/15/2022 at 2:16 PM, Marcin_gps said:

 

Here is a document with detailed instructions: https://jcat.eu/OPTIMO_DIY_MODULE_manual.pdf

Congrats with the launch of OPTIMO POWER SUPPLY.

Where to find the document with detailed instructions for the OPTIMO nano? 

[di-fi]

APACER Industrial M.2 2280 SSD 120GB SATA 3.1 TLC -40…85°C @ 68 EURO (3 left)

 

FLASH Type : TLC BiCS3

= pSLC (as far as I understand, but doublecheck)

My understanding is the pSLC needs 1/3 of the total disk space to work optimal. So at 120GB you will have 40GB to install OS, should be plenty.

 

https://www.soselectronic.com/products/apacer/a52-255hha-00104-320333

 

PM me if you want to mail SOS direct (I have no financial interest other than that I bought all my APACER from them for a good price, shipped to Canada).

[di-fi]

Interestingly, a month ago for the first time Antipodes recommended a specific Samsung SSD for music storage (Antipodes forum). They are not using top SSD or RAM or M2. SATA (Adata actually)  at all (do not even mention pSLC) in their servers but the K50 with separate server and separate player board and reclocker and 3 hybrid LPS sounds exeptional. I think one can agree it is very (too?) expensive, but K50 does sound very good. It's many SATA connections and long cheap cables inside the box. How come they recommend Samsung PM893 SSD for storage I was wondering, Maybe someone here is interested and can find out?

----

PS their ''Design'' (High-End Music Server/Player) page is a recommended & interesting read: https://antipodes.audio/design/

[di-fi]

13 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

Reliability? It's a  'datacenter' SSD, not sure what that means since a datacenter would need a gazillion of these....Ask Antipodes why they recommend this?

Data center or Industrial? Apacer did not invent memory for music servers either, it was 'discovered' for that purpose. pSLC, we are just discovering what works and what not.

I am sure you can imagine Antipodes forum is not AudiophileStyle. I was only suggesting to try because to them, after comparing SSDs, it sounds best on very good reference servers and basic sata cables (fed with quite good PSUs). If you prefer NVMe I am ok with that (plus you have the best so far for your OS). 

[di-fi]

5 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

I did compare a few SSD's on internal and external power, with and without grounding and EMI shielding

Really look forward to find a way to do this for NVMe SSD, compare on internal and external power, (with and without grounding?) and EMI shielding. What about cooling for NVMe? Audibly beneficial?

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

Not all pSLC drives sound good. I have an APRO pSLC drive which cost me $750 / 512GB and it sounds really bad. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

 

Marcin

 

 

I can only imagine, like with MLC & LTC or QLC drives, one can hear differences. But pSLC seems in general a better performer.
I am just wondering why one would need a 512GB or 320GB (which I suspect for Revelation Audio SSD is 1GB in pSLC) size drive for only the OS?

 

They make them in that size, but half the size costs half less and so on. A 80GB or 120GB should be plenty for only OS. I read somewhere that smaller is even better in pSLC. Until a certain limit, because pSLC functions best if a large part is empty, the drive should never be fuller than 1/3 (I will try to find the source). 
 

Or at the current price (1000$ +) why not use pure SLC instead of pseudo-slc with TLC memory. If they still make them?

 

Smaller pSLC will become more available soon I am sure, as we see with APACER (discussed above) available in smaller sizes. There was a time users had great results with SD cards mounted in PCI slots, remember? Today Kingston makes pSLC SD cards for under 20$ ;-) so I am hopeful for the better prices and smaller NVMe pSLC.
 

[di-fi]

5 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

 

THAT (cooling for NVME) I never got around to listen to 

Did you or any user get the funky original passive cooling with your Revelation? Does JCAT or Zzyzx recommend this (or any other cooling) and what is/ should be the advantage according to them?

[di-fi]

28 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

I did not, I have on my to do list to try some generic copper heatsinks...to see if it does something similar to the considerable copper slab I have on the CPU.

My understanding is that with consistent higher temperatures at the long term (months) MLC and TLC chips get errors (to be verified @ what temps) that would not happen to pure SLC.
Also after all the efforts to get passive CPU cooling at around 40 degrees, you do not want a little heater of 50-60+ degrees next to it. A heatsink seems beneficial to lower the SSD temperature but this hot air needs to get evacuated from the case also.

[di-fi]

48 minutes ago, Patatorz said:

I think it has never been released due to production constraints 

I am using this Sabrent (Amazon open box @ 20$) can not say how much better it is, unless Euphony has a hidden feature to read NVMe temps ;-). It gets very hot on top , so it seems to evacuate heat well.

 

 

[di-fi]

13 minutes ago, di-fi said:

I am using this Sabrent, can not say how much better it is, unless Euphony has a hidden feature to read NVMe temps ;-). It gets very hot on top , so it seems to evacuate heat well.

 

 

Please note this Sabrent heatsink comes with thermal tape pre mounted, maybe you do not want to glue that to a Revelation audio SSD before consulting the supplier.

 

 

[di-fi]

35 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

the NVME is not drawing that much power that it'll affect my passive cooling anytime soon (300W heatsink)

I understand, but I was talking about the NVMe and CPU as heat source themselves, not how much power they use. My NVMe heatsink has on average 10 °C higher readings than the CPU heatsink (measured on the top surface) therefore  an important heatsource. CPU heatsink evacuates heat out of the case through 6 heatpipes (FC5). The NVMe heatsink (or not) can only exchange heat with the air stuck in the case.

But we can close the subject :-), it’s an observation.

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, botrytis said:

All M.2 SSD's get hot. This is part of why they fail.

They do? What brand/capacity did fail you?

Any idea after how many hours? At what temperatures?

Did you try heatsink?

[di-fi]

3 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

Not all pSLC drives sound good. I have an APRO pSLC drive which cost me $750 / 512GB and it sounds really bad. 

Would be fair to APRO and interesting if you could put the bad sound on a scale as ZZxyz did in the SSD comparison spider chart.

You compared to what? The Revelation maybe? with or without external power supply?

[di-fi]

2 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

I compared to Apacer SLC which killed it. There is no point in using a scale in this case

Correct, but now everyone wants to know how the Apacer you tried (and what Apacer you tried) performs in the chart. That is very revealing.

Not an easy task I am aware , specially because the chart was created by an other group in various listening session somewhere else on the planet.
You would have to start over from scratch, create reference points and more but you have Revelation in all four versions and at least the APACER. The Revelation scores as in the chart without and with external power should give the same relative results when comparing with other SSDs.  In other words the web or curve in the choses diagram should be the same. I prefered a line diagram so I transfered the scores.

 

These are the categories used by that group.

 

Transparency (high 10)

Imaging (focus 10)

Sound stage (big 10)

Holographic (most 3D 10)

Sound character (cold-warm 10)

Representation (digital - analog 10)

Naturalness (most 10)

Vibrant (most)

[di-fi]

	Samsung 970 pro MLC	Intel 760p TLC	APACER	Revelation pSLC int	Revelation pSLC ext	Base pSLC
Transparency (high 10)	6	9		8	10	7
Imaging (focus 10)	9	7		8	10	8
Sound stage (big 10)	8	7		8	9	8
Holographic (most 3D 10)	9	7		8	10	8
Sound character (cold-warm 10)	8	6		7	9	7
Representation (digital - analog 10)	7	4		7	9	6
Naturalness (most 10)	7	6		8	10	6
Vibrant (most)	7	9		9	10	7

[di-fi]