Building a DIY Music Server

[NanoSword]

Newbie here ,
How someone can use HQ+NAA in same machine ? Is HQ have some additional feature when he detect dual CPU or you should use some sort of virtual machine to install another HQ?

[NanoSword]

6 hours ago, Nenon said:

I am confused by this question. The Ubiquiti Edge Router is a router.

D-Link DGS-1210-10 and Buffalo BS-GS2016 are switches. So I did not chooses the Ubiquiti Edge Router over the D-Link/Buffalo. I use both.

 

We've talked about this, but here is my story on network equipment and how it all started.

 

Some time ago, I looked at my network, and decided to try a couple of things there. My Internet provider (Xfinity but also most ISPs in the US) send you an all-in-one network device that has at least 4 functions. It's a cable modem, a network router, a WiFi access point, and a network switch. Some have more features like phone gateways, firewalls, etc. Given that it does so many functions, it is:
a. a cheap and crappy device that does a lot of things but nothing really good; and
b. a device that has somewhat high current requirements (in order to be able to perform all functions).
Because of “b” it does not come with a typical 12V / 1A brick power adapter, but you have to connect it to the mains and it has a built-in SMPS. In other words, not easy to power up with a LPS unless you open it and do some mods. 

 

I thought, what if I can find an all-in-one device that can accept DC power. I started looking for one, talked to several people at Comcast/Xfinity, but it turned out there is no device with DC input that is certified by my ISP for my area. This is when I started looking at what other options I've had. And I realized that I would have to use separate devices. It made sense to try that. We don’t use surround receivers that can do everything in our high-end 2-channel systems. We use separates. Let’s try this with the network equipment, which in a way can be considered a “source” for our audio system when streaming Tidal/Qobuz.
I decided to try using a separate cable modem (just a modem without any other features) and a generic Wifi Router. That was an immediate (small) improvement even before powering with LPS. Then I powered the cable modem with a LPS and that was a bigger improvement. Then I tested different cable modems and realized that they make a difference too. There were two modems I liked, but I eventually settled on the Arris SB8200 cable modem that takes 12V DC. 

 

At this stage my network looked like this:
Arris SB8200 cable modem (powered by LPS) --> Linksys WiFi Router --> audio network.
 

The next step was to revise the Linksys WiFi Router part. I tried powering it with LPS. It was an improvement but still noisy. I suspected the WiFi part of it was the noisiest part, so I decided to try splitting this into two components - a simple router and a WiFi access point. I started looking for well designed and very simple routers. I wanted to get something that accepts DC power, does not consume a lot, and it's a solidly designed but yet simple router. The $59 Ubiquiti EdgeRouter seemed really good. I bought one and it turned out it sounded really really good when powered by a LPS. Big improvement.

 

My network at that stage was:
Arris SB8200 cable modem (powered by LPS) --> Ubiquiti Edge Router X --> audio network on one port of the router; WiFi router on another port of the router

 

The next step was to decide what to do with the WiFi. I still thought my WiFI router / access point was generating a lot of noise. The general wisdom in the forums was to galvanically isolate (with fiber optic) the audio network from the router/modem/WiFi. But what I have noticed was that the fiber optic changes the sound, and not necessarily for good. And I thought that approach was wrong in general. 
I kept asking myself an interesting question. What part of my network is my "audio network" and is the cable modem and router a part of it? Absolutely, they are a part of the audio network, so that type of galvanic isolation did not make a lot of sense to me. What I mean by that is that if fiber changes the sound, I should be careful where and how I use it. And also I should consider the upstream devices to be part of my source and treat them as if they were a part of my system. 

This is when I came up with a little unusual solution here - instead of galvanically isolating my audio network from the modem/router/WiFi, I considered the cable modem and router to be a part of my audio network and galvanically isolated the WiFi and the rest of my home network from everything else. In order to do that, it would have been best to have a router that has an SFP (fiber optic) port. This is when I decided to try the $99 Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP. It is essentially the same router as the Ubiquiti Edge Router X but with one SFP port. Both routers sounded the same. The only difference was that one had a SFP port. The next experiment was interesting, though.
 

My network at this point was the same:

Arris SB8200 cable modem (powered by LPS) --> Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP --> audio network on one port of the router; WiFi router on another port of the router

 

But now I had the opportunity to move the WiFi router to the SFP port, which would essentially galvanically isolate the WiFi (and my home network) from the rest of the network. I also had to use a fiber media convertor for that. Connectivity between the router and WiFi looked like this:

Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP (SFP port) —fiber—> Fiber media convertor —copper—-> WiFi access point

I did quite a few tests but quickly realized that galvanically isolating my WiFi was a clear winner. Also, please note that in this set up the power supply of the fiber media convertor or the ethernet copper cable to the Wifi access point did not make a difference.

 

My network since then has been:

Arris SB8200 cable modem (powered by LPS) --> Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP --> audio network on one port of the router; WiFi router connected (with the help of a fiber media convertor) with fiber optical cable to the SFP port on the router.

 

All that took place last year. I shared with some friend and on a couple of forums, and people who tried it liked that approach. 

A year later, I look at people's signatures (systems) and can't believe how many people are using the Ubiquiti Edge Router X SFP router. 

 

The Ubiquiti router and the cable modem are not designed for audiophiles. They are in a small, compact, cheap case. People with resolving systems know that vibration isolation on network devices matters. Just moving them to a better case would actually be an improvement. This is how I started thinking about this project - create a better case with the Gaia feet I've used in some of my projects. But now that I am working with Sean, it would be really cool to also add two rails of his power supply. One to power up the router and one to power up an external network device such as a cable modem. 

As I've mentioned in an earlier post, I am doing this for myself. But if it turns out to be something good, I can make a couple of units for people to try. And if I get a positive feedback, we can make it a product. But I need to be careful now what I am posting and obey the forum rules. 

Hopefully my story above makes sense and helps some people to improve their networks, and respectively their streaming quality. 

 

I really enjoyed reading your experiences and there are also lessons that can be applied in one way or another. I am trying to develop my sound system within my capabilities.

Recently I have changed all my network cables and they have already optimized Tidal and Qobuz streaming with dsbl-cat7.

Also, I always found and often the use of an additional router next to the modem of the service provider is positive, not only with sound, even for people who are interested in playing online.

I have to try your way to isolate the wireless using fiber, or I think I have to wait until your new project becomes for sale as I will not suffer from the progression in development. It will be one purchase and very useful

[NanoSword]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

o the client device via a thin copper wire inside the cable jacket. These 'active' solutions defeat the optical isolation

You gave me the reason to avoid slimrun even the OPTO • USB Optical Isolation for USB DACs I am not sure if this extension is a good idea they will introduce their sound character.

 

 

 

[NanoSword]

On 2/7/2021 at 6:15 PM, Nenon said:

Unregulated LPS

Due to some traveling and supply problems, my tests are going a little slower than anticipated. But I am slowly making progress and have a potential version nearly ready already. If someone has the Asus SAGE motherboard with dual Xeons already and is comfortable soldering some components and building the power supply I have in mind and is willing to work with me on the voicing part (meaning buying a few parts to change and test), please let me know in a PM. I might be able to get you an early unit. There will be a couple available soon. 

Transformers for the unregulated LPS were ordered, and those also take a couple of months. While I may share a simple version of what I am doing prior to the chassis, I would be doing the final voicing after I receive the chassis. 

Hi Ninon,
I am impatiently waiting for your updates about Taiko ATX + Unregulated LPS.

Have you tried it with another server running  Euphony ??

I am sure it will revolutionize the DIY world specially for processors that needs more power .

[NanoSword]

Nenon mention that Taiko DC-ATX is suitable for high CPU like 105TDP or above maybe the OPTIMO ATX will be competitive with 95 TDP or less .

 

 

 

 

[NanoSword]

@Marcin_gps I didn't test any power and I've read a lot of reviews for the DC4 and DR7. My reading concluded that they are the best in the market even SR7  not in the level of DR7, for DC3 many upgraded to DC4 all this reading before Nenon  share in public his comparisons Many comments from Romaz and austinpop and Fourlegs about this powers.

[NanoSword]

28 minutes ago, Nenon said:

which is now called DR7.

He is offering now  DR7T  turbo upgrade 🥰.   

[NanoSword]

7 minutes ago, Gurkel said:

 

Only a side topic here. I don't do it, I am just interested in DIY server for streaming, so back to topic.

 

Page 1, first comment and TO of this thread:

 

 

 

•  

 

There we go again. My knwoledge tells me the PCM/DSD signal of an USB port is not influenced by an analog signal, and you don't need an i9-9900K to stream Tidal/Qobuz.

 

Who knows how PCM/DSD works?

Actually you don't need anything to stream tidal you can use your cell phone .

[NanoSword]

4 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

I think it only works if the 8 pin and 4 pin connections are fed from the same LPS

Can you use 4pin from taiko EPS 2 to power the 4pin CPU or it will not work like this ? I see all of them have same volt 12/GND like EPS1.

 

[NanoSword]

5 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

I just see that my Taiko circuit diagram looked different. EPS 2 was still called PCIe and EPS 1 was called CPU.

 

So another use case would be the connection with
Taiko ATX EPS 1 to 8 pin CPU EPS &

EPS 2 to 4 pin CPU EPS?

This is my exact question, can you try this method to connect both 8 pin and 4 pin at the same time .

[NanoSword]

19 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

I think this answered the question 50 posts ago. 
 

https://audiobacon.net/2021/08/06/the-worlds-best-audiophile-linear-power-supplies/2/?amp=1

 

DC4 is technicaly superior – by a large margin. Imaging, depth, soundstage, contouring, detail. The Optimo 3 has more of a “coating” for easy listening.

He seems to prefer Fidelizer Nikola2 I've never heard about it .

[NanoSword]

https://audiobacon.net/best-audiophile-power-supplies/

 

[NanoSword]

Hi folks ,

 

I'm using the Power from @Soul Analogue with Taiko ATX.

The performance is very promising.

It's the first time I've turned it on before the transformer and cables are settled and everything is new .

The stage is wide the sound is more holographic with new layers and the background is black. The resolution took a big leap . The natural sound is very excellent vocals are beautiful too. I've never tried any server power before, but I can say Soul Analogue ULPS is pretty good, and the parts he using look amazingly large, From the first sight and from the weight I can tell that the parts are carefully selected.

 

The connector is really big and heavy military grade .

 

The chassis is very heavy, the quality is excellent. I like the black color, especially the signature It looks great and there is manual soft start design I need to push the button before I pull the toggle down I think it is more safety.

 

 

What I know about Soul Analogue ULPS is that all the pieces he uses are custom made according to his request and personal taste.

 

 

I'm using a Ghent cable to power my computer at the moment and hope one day I can try MSG. I trust Nenon a lot. He helped me a lot in making many choices and I am confident in his taste. 

 

As for the power I got from the Soul Analogue from round one, I didn't find the sound too thin or bulky, it's well balanced. My system is more transparent than before.The shape of the musical instruments also looks great more real. There is also an improvement in control, speed and dynamics.It's a huge improvement for me.

 

Thank you everyone, I have benefited a lot from the experiences in this topic.

 

My server has 3950x processor, Jcat XE and SR4T, Euphony + PGGB.

[NanoSword]

I have to thank Nenon for sharing his experience with Taiko ATX. It is now easy to get high performance for everyone without paying huge amounts of money and we have many options for ULPS. It's a win for audio community.

 

11 hours ago, vhs said:

I grounded the LPS to Tripoint Troy

good to know that grounding can improve the sound even more.

 

 

[NanoSword]

53 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I live in the US.  What are my current options for having a ULPS built for me; this is wayyyy over my pay grade?  I already own the Taiko ATX and would possibly build or have someone like @lmitchebuild me an HDPLEX 5 encased server to replace my i7-6700k Win10 beast for HQP.  I have no intention of asking prices, etc publicly.  

You know, Nenon was using Power at a very high price and made great comparisons at high prices.Although this was a loss of money for him but he helped everyone by putting recipe for good parts .

 

And since you got Taiko Atx, you should find someone who can build it and I think it would be an easy task for someone like lmitche.

 

I find Nenon's experiences and Soul Analogue a great help for me.I'm still learning more from everyone.

[NanoSword]

On 9/10/2021 at 5:36 PM, Nenon said:

You cannot get the Taiko USB card, or the USB driver

Can you tell me how close you are to taiko usb when using ARC6 with jcat XE

Have you tried to run the server using ARC6?

 

[NanoSword]

 

On 5/29/2022 at 1:02 AM, Nenon said:

 

I just checked with Taiko and my Extreme does not have several months of run in time like I assumed. I should have checked this before posting, but I forgot. 

 

So, my Extreme actually needs several more weeks to burn-in. I truly believe that, because I build power supplies with the same Mundorf caps and they take between 2 months (in high current applications) and 4 months (in low current applications) to settle. Two weeks, which is what I have on the Extreme is when they stop sounding bad... 

I will give another report on the Extreme improvement in a couple of months. It's hard to imagine getting any better than that. But it most likely will, and that will set the DIY server even further apart. Well, no surprise there I guess. 

 

I will only have the DIY server for a couple more days, so that was my best shot at doing this comparison.

 

Wow 🤯 reading a practical comparison between DIY Extreme vs Taiko Extreme this is great.

Thanks for sharing .

 

[NanoSword]

4 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

know, but hey, they can use it for the new to come BPS and let me use it for DIY ;-)  Hope dies last....

Indeed, if there is anything I would like to own from taiko, it would be the USB and the new ATX generation.

[NanoSword]

9 hours ago, Nenon said:

I believe that means that when the first batch of the Taiko ATX modules is gone, they might be gone forever

This always makes me buy in a hurry and keep the pieces so that I can use them at a later time.

I bought Taiko Transformer (Noratel) for fear that it will go away.

[NanoSword]

12 hours ago, Nenon said:

Taiko USB card might be available to non-Taiko users next year

[NanoSword]

11 hours ago, Dev said:

Saligny power!

 

 

 

 

Can you share full Pic for your power 
I can see that you are adding vcap and Saligny . can you share the improvement .

 

 

I have same Soul Analogue ULPS ...   but I will try to add  Nenon+Taiko v3  ULPS to my collection  .... I am also thinking if we can add ARC6 modules to our ULPS .

 

 

 

[NanoSword]

On 10/7/2022 at 4:59 PM, darkfrank said:

It's really painful when your system is too sensitive. Even with a lot of power conditioner used (different type, direction, location) , I still can hear the difference clearly on my hifi system (powered from independent electrical panel) just by changing a power cord on somewhere else of my home's power grid.

There are many explanations, but I find the most easy one is that any metal has its own sound whether it is electricity or networks.

[NanoSword]

What is the speed for Taiko Network PCI is it 10G or 100G?