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Building a DIY Music Server


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  • 2 weeks later...

If the Pink Faun OCXO clock is -100 dB at 1 Hz, and the Mutec  Ref 10 is -115 at the same 1 Hz, BUT (I) the OCXO is 20 MHz while the Mutec is 10 Mhz, and (II) the OCXO is an inch-and-a-half from the USB port, whereas the Mutec has to add some noise via wires to and from it, how does one achieve comparability between the two, taking into account both (I) and (II)?

 

(I) should be perhaps easier to answer, but (II) has a lot of "it depends" associated with it (what power supply, what cables, length of cables) and likely cannot be measured broadly but instead on a case-by-case basis.

 

I am not technically savvy, so I want to be clear that I am asking, not trying to make a point.  Nenon and I have discussed this, however, and I opted not to use my Mutec Ref 10 and my SOTM as a result of that discussion.  Nothing but a USB cable between my server and DAC, at present

 

I would think it would be difficult for the Mutek to outperform the OCXO just given proximity to the USB port (1 1/2") and a hard-wired connection.  Just the BNC connections on the Mutec alone add noise, let alone wires to and from the master clock.  But I don't know.

 

I may hook up the SOTM Tx and the Mutec again, just for the heck of it.  But this is complicated by having recently bought a Synergistic Research Galileo SX USB cable.  I don't have two of them (the SOTM Tx needs two USB cables, to and from). The other USB cable would have to be my 0.3 meter Lush^2.  Thinking that through further, the expenditure on two USB cables of equal quality (instead of one), plus the cost of the Mutec and the SOTM plus whatever powers the SOTM are additional considerations.  By just having the USB cable and not the other stuff, one can afford an extraordinary USB cable.  That has less noise associated with it also.  And two extraordinary USB cables instead of one extraordinary USB cable has more noise as well.  Especially at one meter apiece.

 

Also, the Pink Faun USB card with the OXCO clock is getting very clean power from a Sean Jacobs power supply.  The SOTM would not, in my case, have access to that power in an experiment.

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  • 1 month later...

Presumably whether or not one can or cannot disable the GPU in the operating system depends on the operating system. 

 

For example, per Nenon, Euphony is a closed operating system and changes are not possible.  Euphony is the best-sounding operating system, in my setup.  Regardless of GPU enabled or disabled.  And Euphony sounds best with a powerful processor, which I am guessing rules out a lot of NUCs.

 

Then there is the question of whether (i) motherboards that allow the PCH to be disabled sound better - after the PCH has been disabled - than (ii) other motherboards that do not allow the PCH to be disabled.  The motherboards in clause (ii) may have other SQ advantages that more than offset.   

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  • 6 months later...
  • 1 month later...

Clarification, on the server Nenon built for me, Euphony was superior to Roon (without having to fuss with the OS). That same server, using Euphony, was materially better than a low-power audiophile arrangement with tweaked AudioLinux and Roon.  Nenon’s server had better wire and better power supplies, so there were other factors besides just software.

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I believe I purchased my Sean Jacobs 19V DC3 power supply for in the range of $1,500 or $1,600.  Separately, for a PF Buffalo and a Synology NAS, I purchased a DC3 with three rails - 12, 12 and 5 volts - for ~ $2,275.  There are competing options at around these amounts which may offer comparable performance.  The cost of a high-power DIY server is similarly manageable.  In 1985, one could purchase a Yugo for $3,990.  A new Yugo is no longer available.

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1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

so, finally I have Audiolinux going, slightly counterintuitive setup afaik....support was great though!

 

Comparing the same setup, both at 0db reduction, swapping an SSD, Audiolinux vs Daphile makes me think that Daphile (beta RT kernel) is a step ahead in SQ.

I have not tinkered with audiolinux, no ramroot, hqplayer settings to as close to plain PCM as I can as I want to have my R2R shine.

 

AL sounds like an 80ies CD player, dynamic but flat as a pancake and no overtones, decay, original acoustics. Daphile is like listening to a very good Turntable, involving rythmical, organic, large sound stage, refined highs

 

Will do the same comparison later on the AMD board using the I2S output, am I missing anything essential with AL or are there others with similar observations?

 

 

Interesting info, AudioLinux vs Daphile, and interesting too that in your setup Daphile sounds quite good.  

 

I suspect that there are not a material number of followers of this thread that use Daphile, but we will see.

 

Daphile is both an app and an AL operating system, correct?

 

When you listen via AL, are you using an app?

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1 hour ago, bobfa said:

From your chart you are missing an important variable.  The cost of time, building, tuning, adjusting.  That could double the cost.  Many in the hobby discount that because they feel that their labor is at no cost.  I disagree rather vehemently. Do some rough numbers since you built recently.  How much time in Research, development and acquisition and finally production?    

 

Time tuning and adjusting is nearly zero.  With Euphony (and Daphile, which MarceINL is enjoying), there is no tuning.  There are some settings, in setting up the software, a bit about the cache and how you want that to be deployed etc., but these sorts of things are more of a learning curve with the software than trying various frequency or turbo settings and trying to figure out which one sounds best.  One doesn't and can't do that with Euphony (probably not with Daphile either).  And Euphony still sounds better than AudioLinux + Roon (in my set-up, and this seems to be the view), despite the fact that you can't tune or adjust it.  And Euphony is all you need to install.  Some want to install HQPlayer also, which is fine, of course.

 

Time in acquisition?  There's maybe ten things you need to buy.  Once I decided on Sean Jacobs power supply, that took minutes.  It is likely the same if one decides on a different power supply.  An H5 case is minutes.  If you limit your decisions on network and USB cards to either JCAT or Pink Faun (I don't know who the others are), that is quick.  Overall, acquisition time is, I don't know - 90 minutes?

 

Time in research and development?  That's what this thread is for.  People on this thread provide their experiences with this CPU or that one, this motherboard or that one.  Nenon provided those specifics in the first few pages of this thread.  Others have chimed in.

 

Time in production?  I don't know how long it takes to drill two holes in the back of the case for connectors to the CPU and the motherboard, but not long.  The connectors just screw into those holes.

 

Inside the case, the motherboard is just a screw in item.  The CPU is a screw-in item also, but it has to be epoxied with thermal paste to the cooling elements, so it is not limited to fasteners.  The network card and the USB card drop right into slots on the motherboard, if the motherboard permits.  The power supply is purchased.  The DC cables between the PS and the server are purchased.  The time spent wiring the from (a) the connectors to (b) the connection points inside the server takes time and knowledge that I don't have (yet).    

 

A DIY build of a high-power server allows for audiophile-grade network and USB cards.  That isn't possible with a NUC.  Euphony also sounds better on a high-power server than it does on a NUC.  So you lose some big potential advantages with a NUC.  You can't fix that later.  With a DIY, you can choose not to have the network and USB cards, but you can address those when finances permit.

 

Production seems straightforward, save for the wiring inside the server to power the motherboard and CPU.  That may be straightforward also, but I don't know. 

 

The USB card and the network card don't need to be wired.  They each have DC jacks - you just insert the DC barrel into them from outside the case.  They don't need to be wired internally inside the server - they just drop into slots in the motherboard slots.  

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12 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

At over $6k at the 1.5 TB level, those will likely come down in price.  If I am looking at the right product (my technical knowledge is modest), 480 GB is only $609.  Intel® Optane™ SSD 900P Series (480GB, 1/2 Height PCIe* x4, 20nm) 123626  

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

The 900P is different series. They are not bad, but the P4800X sounds better. I compared the two in my system.

Oddly enough Extreme users report no difference between the Intel 660p and Optane 900p. That is not my experience.

That is all on Windows. With Linux / Euphony these tests need to be redone. 

Also, you need to have an available PCIe slot for those cards.

@gererick - I think in your case, the NAS is just fine with Euphony, caching, JCAT Net Femto NIC, Buffalo switch, etc. 

 

Yes, with Euphony, caching, etc., the NAS is just fine, but it doesn't sound quite as good as streaming (close, but not quite as good). 

 

And the NAS is just a few feet away.  So from a proximity standpoint, the NAS or local storage should sound better than streaming.  

 

The NAS only has to go through ethernet cable (and through the PF Buffalo).

 

Streaming is sourced many miles away, goes through more conversions (Verizon Fios, ONT box, coax, router, coax again, router extender, ethernet cable, PF Buffalo).  Plus whatever processes it went through before getting onto the Verizon Fios network.  My routers are Verizon routers, not audiophile grade (yet).  One would think that the NAS (a fine Synology DS218) shouldn't have difficulty beating streaming.  But it seems to be the rule and the norm, from what I've read of others' experiences who have invested in their streaming equipment and local storage.  Perhaps others have written why this is so.

 

Whatever Euphony is caching from the NAS presumably includes some bits that got out of place somehow (that is a non-technical supposition).  Or perhaps the process of burning CDs onto a hard drive introduced errors that are not present in streamed material.

 

Minor differences in SQ, though.  Things like digital glare, leading edge on piano, background vocals separation and prominence, but subtle when comparing.

 

Between the NAS and the PF Buffalo, I have a decent Cardas ethernet cable.  Between the router extender and the Buffalo, an unshielded, low cost but good Monoprice, I believe.  Both can be improved on, but the ethernet cable coming out of the router extender isn't a top performer.

 

I will be trying my etherREGEN in front of my PF Buffalo with fiber optic cable in between, and will see if that changes things.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My two Sean Jacobs power supplies are the basically same for (i) the CPU (one power supply, one rail. made by Sean Jacobs) and (ii) the motherboard and Pink Faun ultra OCXO bridge (one power supply, four rails, components from Sean Jacobs, assembled by Nenon).  The voltages are different, of course, along with any differentiation of parts (such as transformers) given the different voltage outputs and different number of rails.

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  • 8 months later...

I have a Synergistic Research Galileo USB cable, which I will probably not be changing out any time soon.  It is also grounded to their Grounding Block SE.

 

Anyone have experience with the Shunyata Omega Ethernet cable?  I currently use a JCAT Signature Gold from Nenon’s Pink Faun Buffalo to my server and a Cardas Ethernet cable from a modded Buffalo to the Pink Faun Buffalo.

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  • 4 weeks later...

For instance, if I decouple my router by using a Sonore Optical Module between my router and my first Buffalo, it should make my local files sound better.  It doesn’t.  It leans the music out and is more piercing, even though I am not even streaming.  Based on this and based on Nenon’s 10/13/20 post here and similar Nenon posts on WBF, I expect the best answer is try it out (i.e. separating the WiFi) and see.  Nenon is using an LPS on his edge router x sfp, which he said was important.

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14 hours ago, Dev said:

Did anyone find sound improvements by decoupling the Wifi from the router functionality for locally sourced playback files ? I currently have a simple home network where the Arris SB8200 modem connects to a Netgear Orbi Wifi router and from there all downstream devices are either connected to the wifi or wired through other switches. The music server also connects to the Orbi through a Buffalo switch using a Fiber connection. I don't stream Tidal or Qobuz and all music files reside in a 2x2Tb M.2 drive in the music server itself. I know a lot of folks are using EdgeRouter X for the router functionality and a separate wifi access point for sq improvements but are those done for streaming Tidal/Qobuz ? do you also hear improvements for locally (local to the music server itself) sourced files as well ? I have an EdgeRouter X SFP collecting dust and was thinking how to use it effectively.

Nenon's post is on page 36.

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Yes, you read correctly.  But my guess is that my experience is at odds with what others heard in their systems, with respect to locally sourced files (in my case, a Synology NAS).  So you have to try.  Fortunately the equipment you are asking about is inexpensive.

 

Re your second question, I was swapping a Cardas Ethernet cable and the fiber / Sonore back and forth in the router-to-first-Buffalo connection.

 

My music server actually gets connected to the second Buffalo, as I have two back to back.   The 2nd one goes to the server, the first takes inputs from the Synology and the Verizon router and sends them to the second Buffalo. I have also tried fiber instead of copper between the two Buffaloes, and in my system the copper Cardas Ethernet cable sounds better when playing local files, though not necessarily better when streaming (same characteristics described in my earlier reply).

 

The 2nd Buffalo, which is a Nenon-modded Pink Faun Buffalo, is connected to the server via a JCAT Signature Gold Ethernet cable.  The first Buffalo is modded to use an external power supply and modded with a Nenon capacitor board, but doesn’t have a PF ultra OCXO clock yet.

 

I will be separating out my Verizon router from a Ubiquiti router that I have ordered but not yet received.  Nenon has already done that per his post on page 36 , but not with a Verizon router and I don’t believe he discussed the impact of doing so on local files.  I do know, at that time before he changed the storage of his local files (NAS at the time) to whatever he has now, that he said his streaming service (Tidal or Qobuz) sounded better than his local files, not necessarily in a subtle way.

 

With Verizon FIOS, for TV, I have to keep my Verizon router and can’t use a modem like you can.

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  • 1 month later...
13 hours ago, lwr said:

I have been using a JS2 LPS to power my JCAT NetCard XE and I have been very pleased with its very smooth and natural presentation.

 

I recently read where others have had very good experiences with JCAT’s Optimo 3 Duo LPS.  I ordered one from Kitsunehifi.com and, even with just the “free shipping,” it arrived within 5 days.  It has taken it about a week of continuous music play to start settling in, but I have to say that it is already sounding well worth the investment.

 

The soundstage is unmistakably deeper, wider, and more highly defined than I have ever heard.  There is a greater sense of immediacy, PRAT, and sense of having been transported to the actual recorded venue itself.  There is no doubt that this the ideal way to extract the maximum performance from the JCAT net card XE.  Now that I’ve heard this combination together, there’s no going back.

 

 

What do you have in front of the JCAT Net Card XE, i.e. what do you have in between your router and your network card?

 

I have some good gear between my router and me network card and wonder whether upgrading the network card and its LPS would do as much as it might do for others.

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16 hours ago, Exocer said:

 

Thanks Nenon!

 

My first two QSA fuses were ordered back in August and arrived about 6 weeks later. I later ordered an additional 1A Fast Blow 5 x 20mm fuse for the DAC. I have to thank @BCRich for introducing me to these fuses. These fuses unlocked more potential in my system than I could have ever imagined... some details below.

QSA Light Blue in my Yggdrasil LIM was astonishingly good. So good that I now want to try higher-end QSA fuse here. YMMV depending on the rest of your system. 

 

I switched one fuse at a time in three components:

 

In this order:

1.  ULPS V3 - Replaced ordinary ceramic fuse

2. Rogue ST-100 amp - Replaced Acme Sylver Cryo fuse

3. Yggdrasil LIM dac - Replaced standard glass body fuse

 

My impressions at each stage.

 

1. Wow, much more information retrieval immediately but a bit harsh. Do I have this installed correctly? Nope. After switching the direction of the fuses, wow. Much better stereo imaging, vocals, instrument separation, zero harshness. An improvement across that board that continued onward for a few weeks.

 

2. Hmm, fuse is facing the right way but not an immediate eye opening improvement. This one took time (and switching back to the old fuse to appreciate). I can say that the channels seem a bit more "even" now than they were before. More openness. Slightly more musicality and power. Could be that I already had a decent Acme fuse in the amp and there are individual ordinary fuses for each tube to protect the circuitry that I have not upgraded yet. I suspect the tube fuses are holding me back a bit here. Still a worthwhile uplift I would recommend!

 

3. Did I just buy a new DAC? Astonishing improvement across the board. Yeah, this will probably be downvoted or reported but experiencing how much the standard fuse in my DAC was holding me back was a game changer. The QSA Light Blue fuse at its modest price is a no-brainer for those with a decent source/network and a Yggdrasil DAC. There is simply no going back here. The "choke" point in my system was the fuse in this DAC.

 

I had been skeptical of fuse upgrades for a very long time and I'm glad I've changed my tune. 

 

That's too bad but we have some solid options. The JCAT USB XE is really good, so is the CoreAudio P24 OCXO.

 

 

A lot of people like the Schiit Yggdrasil as well wink wink nudge nudge. 😁

 

Cheers,

-Rob

Did the QSA fuses replace stock fuses?

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