Building a DIY Music Server

[lwr]

46 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Just a quick update:

I swapped the positions of the etherREGEN and my modified Buffalo switch. Now my server is connected directly to the Buffalo like this:

Arris SB8200 modem --(copper)--> Ubiquiti Router --(copper)--> Buffalo switch --> etherRegen (fiber with Fintech transceivers)--> Buffalo switch--(copper)--> server. 

 

That turned out to be a shocking improvement! I expected a small difference that makes me do many A/B comparisons until I decide if I like one better than the other. Not at all. 

 

I just picked a random Qobuz track for the test. It just happened to be this one:
artist: The Ray Brown All Stars

track: You Don't Know Me
album: Don't Forget The Blues

But I also listened to different styles music after that to make sure it's not just that track that sounded better

 

It took about 5 seconds from the track to hear how much better the new combination was. By the 14th second I was convinced what I heard the first 5 seconds was true. After 30 seconds there was no doubts at all. We've all been there, and you probably know what I am talking about. Towards the end of the track I knew I had a new reference! Obviously I went back forth 5 or 6 times to double/triple/quadruple/quintuple check and never doubted even for a second which one was better. Never heard Qobuz sound so good! Going back to do some more critical listening now... 

Is the EtherREGEN re-clocked?  Were both of the Buffalos re-clocked, or was it just one?  If just one Buffalo, which one in the series was the re-clocked one?

 

Both your experiments and your reports of the associated SQ benefits are a real inspiration.  Thank you!

[lwr]

Did you try both 12V and 5V and find that 12V sounded better, or just go with 5V and stick with it?

 

Which OXCO are you planning to use?

1 hour ago, cool_chris said:

I must say I followed Nenon recommendation with the use of Buffalo BSGS 2016.

With his kind help I was able to get 2 of them. I dont think they are still available. All sold out.

I powered them with Vinnie Rossi great „mini” supercapacitor supplys rated 5v / 3A only !

Many powered them with 12v , but I recommend 5 v with 3A or more.

I think I can already say It is by far the bigest SQ gain I have ever experienced .

I wanted to thank Nenon for discovering soch a great improvements for us, testing many options and sharing results with all of us.
I see that Hols confirmed it already few posts above , so do I. 
 

My next step will be to improve both clocks with the use of OXCO as Nenon and Hols already did with great result.

Will report my experience .

 

 

[lwr]

1 hour ago, cool_chris said:

Tried both . 12 v is more precise and focused but adds little more upper fequencies that is aready to much in my system.
5v is just a little less focused but it has an excellent musicality , flow and easyness in the presentation.

I think the take home message is : try all voltages from 5 v to 12v and pick the one that fits your system / ears best !

Hols sounds to be very happy with his local OCXO upgrade shop, Nenon did install PinkFaun ultra OCXO himself and is enthusiastic about that, but it is by far the most expensive one ( it might be the best but that needs to be confirmed by testing )

I am considering few options . Educating myself with different clock manufacturers and will report effects here.

I tried four PP modified zyxel swiches before and they were quite good, got Ether Regen that also was very good , added Ubiquiti xrouter that acts as a switch only, but only the last change with modified Buffalows elevated my system so many levels up.

 

The use of Buffalo BSGS 2016 / or Melco S100 / recommended by Nenon , Romaz, Hols and few others is probably one of the very best upgrates one can do to the audio system this time .

 

 

1 hour ago, cool_chris said:

Tried both . 12 v is more precise and focused but adds little more upper fequencies that is aready to much in my system.
5v is just a little less focused but it has an excellent musicality , flow and easyness in the presentation.

I think the take home message is : try all voltages from 5 v to 12v and pick the one that fits your system / ears best !

Hols sounds to be very happy with his local OCXO upgrade shop, Nenon did install PinkFaun ultra OCXO himself and is enthusiastic about that, but it is by far the most expensive one ( it might be the best but that needs to be confirmed by testing )

I am considering few options . Educating myself with different clock manufacturers and will report effects here.

I tried four PP modified zyxel swiches before and they were quite good, got Ether Regen that also was very good , added Ubiquiti xrouter that acts as a switch only, but only the last change with modified Buffalows elevated my system so many levels up.

 

The use of Buffalo BSGS 2016 / or Melco S100 / recommended by Nenon , Romaz, Hols and few others is probably one of the very best upgrates one can do to the audio system this time .

 

Thanks for your reply.  I’m looking forward  to following your progress.

 

 

[lwr]

55 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

I agree 100%

I tested after Nenon recommended stacking 4 Buffalo and adding Pink Faun clocks.

I started with 1 switch , than 2 , 3 and ,4 

And as you expect it was much better each time.

Than adding 2 Pink Faun Ultra clocks to my 2 switches .

1 brings it to the unexpected word of amazing 👏 

Than second amplifies that .

So at the end I tested if I can take any of the Buffalows and sell them.

NO it is impossible.  Each time the loss in SQ is so strong I cant take anybof the 4 switches away.

I added 5th switch that is Ether Regen as the first from the modem.

And Yes it adds great taste to the SQ 👍 

I use 5 switches now.

Planning to add one more ......

Best

K

 

Are you saying that you have 4 PF Buffalos in series, or 2 PF Buffalos and 2 non-PF Buffalos in series.

 

Best,

Wayne

[lwr]

9 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

It can do 40A continuously on the 12V rail if that's of any use to you.

And it's 99% efficient. Depending on the input voltage and the load, it can get up to 99.3% efficiency. In fact the most inefficient component I have in the prototype is the transformer. 

 

Superb! Can't wait to hear one!

[lwr]

7 hours ago, rico25 said:

Hi Sakso,

My opinion would be to sell your streamer  "as is" because it is good for USB  dac

and buy a used one with AMD (from Longinc in the classified), where you will be able to put a PinkFaun Spdif bridge with Euphony and add the Taiko dc-atx :)

I have to tell you that the Gaia D2D with a Revelation Audio I2S cable is truely a match made in heaven.  I am using it with a z390 phantom mb, passively cooled i9 9900k, with plenty of Apacer select industrial ram , JCAT net Xe, and a Nenon’s recommended unregulated power supply Takio DC regulator board combination.   The SQ is so many leagues above anything I have ever heard anywhere before that I wouldn’t believe it if I wasn’t hearing it for myself.  My mind is bogged to try and imagine how Nenon’s  and Austinpop’s assurances that there is even better SQ to be had with the Takio Extreme🤪🤯.

 

I would suggest that you get a Takio DC regulator board for your existing server, add a Gaia with Revelation Audio cable, and happily enjoy the bliss.  

As for me, my plan is to continue collecting the parts to build Nenon’s Takio DIY server as it comes to fruition, to be my endgame server, and to which I will be transferring the JCAT net XE card and Takio DC regulator board.  Of course, if I were to win the lottery, I would simply buy a Takio Extreme server as a complete turn key solution 🤞.

[lwr]

46 minutes ago, sakso136 said:

Hi,

Are you using jcat usb xe also?

The audio gd he20 was comparedto su1( wich i have now),to matrix,su2 and su6 ad blew them all.no idea of gaia.

For coax nenon is highly recommnding high fidelity ct2

For me, the SU-6 with its OCXO and built in ultracacap LPS was a much better way to go than the SU-2 modified to use an external LPS.  When I later upgraded the SU-6 with all AudioNote Kaisei caps it improved its SQ considerably.
 

However, the Gaia with Revelation Audio I2S is in an entirely different league all together.   My Terminator Plus is quite good without the Gaia and Revelation Audio I2S, but with it, the SQ is so much more realistic and immersive that I could never go back to just the Terminator Plus alone.

 

Check out the design and construction of Gaia on the Vinshine Audio for details of its OCXO, usb discrete input circuitry (as opposed to the XMOS processor chip used in the Singxer products), and it’s high end power supply.  Like the Terminator Plus, it punches way above its price point. 

[lwr]

1 hour ago, sakso136 said:

Ok,ill check the gaia.

The su1 i have is moded by ghent audio to be used with external ps.

I m using it with ultracap 1.5 lps sonore dc cable.

On the other thread here regarding the audio gd many said it is also on a total different league than the singxer.

Unless I’m mistaken, the su1 uses a 1st gen XMOS chip that has long been discontinued, the su2 uses a 2nd gen chip (with about twice the processing power), and both of them need modification to enable the use of an external LPS to really shine.  The su6 uses the latest generation XMOS, has other circuitry enhancements, and  has a built in supercapacitor LPS.

[lwr]

24 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Noratel were supposed to be shipped over sea (takes about 6 weeks) last week. I could not wait any longer and ordered some transformers from Toroidy, and they are stuck in Fedex Germany for nearly two weeks :(. Not the best times for impatient audiophiles like us.

Is the Toroidy that you ordered expected to be sonically the equivalent of the Noratel?  If so, would you please provide the Toroidy ordering information?  (I have never ordered from them before.)

 

Thanks

[lwr]

18 hours ago, Soul Analogue said:

 

Hi thanks for the feedback

I would say the PSU for USB card connecting to DAC/DDC is even more crucial than the ATX and CPU...

a nice 5v regulated PSU is gonna give you further improvement in sound quality

 

Happy listening =)

I have been using a JS2 LPS to power my JCAT NetCard XE and I have been very pleased with its very smooth and natural presentation.

 

I recently read where others have had very good experiences with JCAT’s Optimo 3 Duo LPS.  I ordered one from Kitsunehifi.com and, even with just the “free shipping,” it arrived within 5 days.  It has taken it about a week of continuous music play to start settling in, but I have to say that it is already sounding well worth the investment.

 

The soundstage is unmistakably deeper, wider, and more highly defined than I have ever heard.  There is a greater sense of immediacy, PRAT, and sense of having been transported to the actual recorded venue itself.  There is no doubt that this the ideal way to extract the maximum performance from the JCAT net card XE.  Now that I’ve heard this combination together, there’s no going back.

 

 

[lwr]

6 hours ago, gererick said:

What do you have in front of the JCAT Net Card XE, i.e. what do you have in between your router and your network card?

 

I have some good gear between my router and me network card and wonder whether upgrading the network card and its LPS would do as much as it might do for others.

SB88200 cable modem,  EdgeRouterX SFP router,  2 series PFU Buffalo BS-GS2016 switches w/ SR7T LPS and Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL SFP connections to 2 series EtherRegens w/ PFU clocks and Farad LPS,  JCAT NET CARD XE w/ JCAT Optimo 3 Duo LPS

 

I, like you, thought that perhaps my network setup was clean enough already, and that changing the LPS from a JC2 to a JCAT Optimo 3 Duo might not make much difference.  Boy was I wrong.  The difference proved to be quite significant, well worth the extra expense, and for me, there is no going back. 

 

It is possible that my system may be more sensitive to such changes than some others, as I had a similar experience with SFPs.  I must have tried 8 or 10 brands and models of SFPs before I found one that so clearly sounded so much better than all the others - the  Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL SFP  

[lwr]

Beautifully executed build!  
 

What is the part number for the second Mundorf capacitor you used?

[lwr]

I used the 1.5mm Mundorf Angelique

wire with silk sheathing, with a protective outer cover of heat shrink tubing.  
 

I used the Neutrik SpeakON NAC3FC -HC plug and socket that is the 32 Amp high current version usually used to connect AC mains to amps.

 

The Angelique wire is so stiff that it can easily break any board mounted socket that it is connected to, so it is necessary to carefully pre-bend it to align to the socket before inserting it into the Taiko DC regulator and distribution board socket.

 

I also used the 1.5mm Angelique wire to connect the Taiko DC regulator board to the motherboard, and I found the SQ to be much better than any other wire I have used, but again, it must be carefully pre-bent before inserting it into the motherboard sockets.

[lwr]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

 

I modified all my devices with PowerCON 32A. Highly recommended 😀

 

Matt

[lwr]

53 minutes ago, Dev said:

I am curious, how many of you ordered the Taiko chassis in this batch ? I am still on the edge as I am unsure how much of improvement I would get from a i9-10900k/Asus ROG to a dual Xeon Silver/Asus Sage. Anyone changed setup like this and can comment on the sound quality ?

I have built a i9-20900k/Asus ROG with the Nenon v3 LPS and Taiko DC/ATX, Apacer industrial RAM, all Mundorf Angelique wiring, and JCAT XE network usb, and Femto M.2 memory cards.  The SQ is quite superb in every aspect, and I do no have any sense whatsoever that it could be any better in any way, until I then substitute the dual Xeon/ASUS Sage that I bought from Nenon.

 

The dual Xenon/Sage is the DIY Extreme that Nenon built for himself and was documented extensively, earlier in this thread.  I have moved it into a Taiko DIY chassis, powered by the latest iteration of the Nenon v2 LPS with Taiko rectifier board, Taiko sourced Mundorf caps, Taiko DC/ATX, and all Mundorf Angelique wiring.  At this point I am waiting on Taiko USB and network cards, and until they arrive, I am simply using the USB and network connections on the Sage motherboard itself.

 

Even though the i9-10900k server has the distinct advantages of the JCAT XE  network, USB, and Femto M.2 memory cards, the SQ of the Xenon/Sage is remarkably more natural, broader, deeper, and more convincingly realistic in every aspect.  It is not a night and day difference in any single aspect, but it is a slight but unmistakable further refinement of every aspect of SQ, which all adds up to a much better overall musical experience.

 

It is my understanding that the eventual inclusion of the Taiko USB and network cards will take the DIY Extreme to remarkably further refinements of SQ.

 

I can’t even imagine how superb a factory built Taiko Extreme with its USB, Network, and Taiko’s own operating system must sound.  Someday I would love to hear one in my system.

[lwr]

10 minutes ago, Dev said:

Thanks @lwrthat’s exactly the feedback I was looking for. What are you using to power the JCAT cards ? What are you using as OS and music player ? Also if I understand correctly, you are using the native Ethernet and USB out of the Asus Sage ? What prevented you from not using the JCAT cards in this build ?

 

did you preorder the Taiko Network card ? 

I power the JCAT cards with the Optimo LPS.  
 

I use the Euphony / Stylus v4 beta on the i9-10900k. The DIY Extreme has the tweaked Windows Server / HQPlayer that Nenon installed.  It is quite possible that the different OS / Player systems contribute to the differences I am hearing between the two servers, but I don’t think so.  I expect that the use of Euphony / Stylus on the i9-10900k is to its advantage, as it is a much more compact and efficient combination.  On the other hand, the DIY Extreme has roughly twice as many resources available for the relatively less compact and less efficient Windows Server / HQPlayer.  

I can’t comment on the SQ of Euphony / Stylus running on a DIY Extreme, but I believe others may be able to do so.

 

I had the JCAT cards in the DIY Extreme, but like others have reported here, after I made some modifications to the LPS, I began having boot delay issues.  My solution was to simply remove the JCAT cards and wait to deal with it further when the Taiko USB and network cards arrive.  There are USB and network ports on the Sage motherboard that are very very good, whereas moving the JCAT cards to the i9-10900 server produced a very noticeable improvement in SQ, especially in PRAT.

[lwr]

52 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

found it...

 

 

 

 

 

He explained that the dcR for his chokes is 0.074Ohm, due to using a wire of 3 by 1mm making 3mm^2 surface area. Length of wire is about 26meters per coil and both are connected in parallel for one choke. The induction of the LL2773 is apparently much lower than his chokes, lundahl specifies 1.25Tesla at 10A which is steep since at 20VAc the load is at around 1.72Tesla.

Th epermeability of those cores is much lower and the choke permeability collapses.

He calculated his chokes at 0.9 tesla, which becomes 1.27T at most which is a 30% difference with the Lundahls, and the permeability of the Hi-B cut cores collapses much more less.

 

 

I had the LL2773 at 36V DC output and honestly, I could not care less what the voltage now is since I know that the sound of the ATX is quite a lot better at the new voltage with these chokes. The difference is not trivial at all, I'm glad that was corroborated by some folks replicating this experiment...it's easy enough to fool yourself (well, this is a difference that goes way beyond that)

 

 

 

The dimensions of the chokes are approximately L 5 ½” x W 4” x H 3 ¼ “

 

The weight is approximately 7 ½ pounds.

 

The following pictures show its build, as well as it temporarily wired in place of a Hammond 259ZJ Nenon v2 LPS build in the Taiko DIY chassis.

 

It looks like it will be a very tight fit to get two of these large and heavy chokes in the Taiko DIY chassis for a Nenon v3 build, but I expect it will be possible if the Taiko rectifier board is mounted vertically on the wall of the transformer bay.

 

 

[lwr]

[lwr]

13 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Cool. So you were able to fit two of the larger chokes in the Taiko chassis? 
 

Edit: missed your previous post. Thank you.

I currently have the Taiko rectifier board mounted horizontally on the floor of the Taiko DIY chassis, but I expect that moving it to a vertical mounting on the transformer box wall will make sufficient room for two of the larger chokes.

[lwr]

3 hours ago, Nenon said:

Everything went into place in my case. I guess I was reading the instructions upside down. 😅🤦‍♂️😂

Mine was one of the early cases that required an additional copper plate from Taiko to mount the Taiko DC - DC ATX card.  Taiko sent it out immediately, it (and everything else) fit perfectly.

 

Being able to mount the entire power supply in the same chassis as the motherboard is definitely the way to go for best SQ.

 

[lwr]

4 hours ago, AngeloVRA said:

Hi @Gavin1977

 

The DC power IN cable connector for the SCLK EX is a Molex  0050375023 with crimp terminals 0008701039

You can use the PCIE output on the Taiko ATX. That is 8 pins, 4 pairs of 12v and Ground. 
 

I power my SCLK-EX with an external 12V PH DR7T. I use the PCIE output of Taiko ATX for the internal SATA power cable for the SNI-1G which is required even when externally powering it. 

 

 

Hope that helps

Angelo

Beautiful build!

[lwr]

4 hours ago, drjimwillie said:

I hope everyone is having fun with their projects and enjoying some good music.

 

I am building the DIY Taiko Server with the sage motherboard in the DIY Taiko case.  I am also building the unregulated power supply and I have the big Taiko Cap, to save space.   I ordered two of the Hi-Cut B custom chokes, which I see are about to ship.  I have not assembled the Taiko case, because I am waiting to see how creative people need to be to get these two chokes to fit with the sage motherboard. My thinking is, if the case is disassembled, it will be easier to put on my drill press to drill, extra holes, to mount the chokes. 
 

I am hoping people will help me think through the alternative of mounting the power supply externally. Am I understanding correctly, that the wisdom is that it is better to mount the power supply in with the motherboard?  I am wondering why this is correct? 
 

The downside of mounting the PSU internally are the heat and the EMI.

 

The downside of mounting the PSU externally is the two extra connectors and the extra length of wire.  

Are there ways to get around the downside of the external PSU?  Do we need to use better connectors? Do we need to use more wire? would a four, five, six pin connector be helpful? I am using the Mundorf Angelique wire. Is it better to add wire to individual pins, rather than double up the wire coming off of one pin?
(should I use the connectors to facilitate a ground wire between the server and the PSU?)

 

I have one of the older HDPlex - H5, cases left over from my CAPS pipeline build, that I could use to house the PSU. (I have to see if that case is tall enough to fit the big cap or if I might need to mount it sideways.)

 

Thank you,

Will

 

I am waiting to see what capacitor and choke configuration Nenon settles on before I try and decide how I’m going to manage  to get it all into the Taiko case.

 

The HI-Cut B custom chokes are huge, but by locating the Taiko rectifier board and Taiko ATX board above the motherboard or on the inside vertical walls, I do expect to be able to get everything mounted inside the chassis.
 

The mounting position of the Taiko transformer in the AC input, fuse, and transformer area leaves a fair amount empty space inside. It is likely possible to relocate the transformer in that space father toward the rear of the chassis, and then mount the Taiko rectifier board vertically inside the front wall of the space.

 

While I wait to find out what combination of chokes and capacitors Nenon settles on, I am using the single choke with Taiko Mundorf capacitor loosely fitted inside the unmodified Taiko chassis, as shown in the attached picture

 

[lwr]

17 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

I see what you were saying about relocating, the Rectifier and the ATX will free up a huge amount of space. (thanks for the picture.)

If we add the shielding the rest of the way around the motherboard, like they do in the actual Taiko chassis, that will give us opportunities/space to mount the ATX and the rectifier.

 

do you think we need to worry about EMI from the chokes? I would think yes because the coils must throw some kind of magnetic field. aren’t we supposed to mount them perpendicular to each other so the fields do not interact?

Yes, I do plan to mount the chokes at right angles to each other, most likely in in front left corner, and I may box them out with walls of my-metal.

 

I too have found that Mundorf Angelique wire sounds quite good for power supply wiring.  To get the lowest total contact resistance, I look to run a separate wire to each pin of the each receptacle.  I get the Angelique wire without insulation and then use silk sheathing, and then apply a heat shrink tubing outer layer to protect the silk sheathing.

 

For the JCAT USB XE card and the Taiko network card, I plan to use Mundorf SG alloy wire.

[lwr]

Yes

[lwr]

Sorry for not being more clear in my previous response. Yes, you will need 2 EPS cables