Building a DIY Music Server

[drjimwillie]

I have a question about player software.

 

Different people are working on software to replace Roon because they don’t like the sound, but they like the interface.

Why are they bothering to try to replace the interface? Why can’t they just use Roon to curate the music? Just use Roon to point to the file location and that’s it. Then, whichever player you like processes the file.

In the same way that Roon & Euphony hand the file over to HQplayer, why can’t it just hand the file over to Stylus or TAS.

 

One of the downsides of Roon is the incessant jabbering it does with the mothership.
The way I address that is I have Roon running on my NAS which has enough computing power for Roon to function. But, you could use any small computer. 
 

these software already communicate with each other. We would just have to get the manufacturers to do the programming to allow that function. 
 

also, everything is communicating over ethernet. 

[drjimwillie]

1 hour ago, dminches said:

In your examples Roon is still running and that (negatively) affects sound quality.

 

In my example, Roon is playing in a separate place, on the network. Not on any of the audio dedicated computers, server or endpoint.

 

(in my instance the computer running Roon is a NAS with no solid-state drive‘s and a LPS. I also have an optical module separating the NAS and the server.)

 

for it to affect the sound it would have to do some sort of processing of the file. how would it affect the sound if it is not really touching the file.  I am suggesting Roon just point to the file.

[drjimwillie]

43 minutes ago, c-w said:

You can. Use option Roon + StylusEP in Euphony or if Roon is not on Euphony you can still connect from Roon over network to StylusEP running on Euphony machine either via Squeezebox protocol or HQPlayer protocol.

I did try that, thank you.

 

I found that Stylus sending to stylusEP, to sound better than Roon or HQplayer or anything else sending to stylusEP or NAA. 

 

So why can’t I use Roon to curate the files. Just point to it and Stylus picks it up and plays it.

 

Roon, or whatever player you like tells your server, for example playing stylus, this is the next file you were going to play.

Stylus on your server, waiting for that information, says thank you, and it plays the file that is presented to it.

They are all dealing in ethernet URLs anyway. Unless it’s on your local drive and that’s an easy address to point to also.

[drjimwillie]

Is Roon sending a stream when HQplayer is processing the file? Is HQplayer handling the whole processing of the file?

 

Is it that Roon doesn’t serve up the URLs or that they will not give the URL out of principle?
If the song you choose is on Qobuz, all it would have to do is point to that Qobuz file.

 

and, I’m not talking about Roon talking to the endpoint it is communicating with the server.

 With Roon on my Nas and HQplayer on my server, HQplayer processes a file served up by Roon.  Or do I have it wrong?  

Are  you saying that my Roon on my Nas is streaming a file it has processed and sending that to HQplayer on my server to process again?

[drjimwillie]

8 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

Roon does not just serve the URL to an external program. It does a lot more than that that deteriorates the sound quality no matter where you run it or how you isolate it. 

Your idea to have Roon just handle the URL and shutdown any other activity is great. Unfortunately Roon has no desire to make such changes... or any changes that significantly improve the SQ. They have different priorities. Many of us have tried to convince them to do things to improve the sound quality but they have been ignorant and arrogant for the most part. That's their loss. New and much better software is coming up and replacing Roon in many high-end systems. The interface will slowly catch up over time.

 

Thank you for the response. 

I have seen some of the interactions over there, and it is surprising and sad.

 

putting that aside;

you say that it will not serve URLs to exterior programs, it considers HQplayer and interior program.  How does it handle the data flow to HQplayer?

 

In the same Spirit that we are doing a “hack“ that uses HQP protocol for streaming to the NAA, to get around some limitations, couldn’t the receiving software like Euphony do some sort of hack that picks up the data intended for HQplayer and substitute Stylus?

 

Perhaps, and I know this is a longshot, Roon just curating the file, serving up the URL, could be looked at as a different business model rather than a sound quality enhancement. So that they don’t reduce their market share.  Part of my intent is to discussed this process with like minded individuals here, so that I can flush out the idea to something simple and workable and then I will be willing to go over there and present it.😎

[drjimwillie]

I appreciate all the feedback on how Roon reacts with your server/endpoint and how the added ethernet traffic affects sound quality, Thank you very much. 

I have still have the burning question, what method is Roon using when it speaks to HQplayer, which it believes Roon sees as an internal process.  

There are two instances when Roon talks to HQ player

1 when Roon core communicates with HQP on a separate device

2 when Roon communicates with HQP in the same device.

 

Is it delivering a stream or is it delivering an address.

 

I am guessing that it is delivering an address.  
 

Can I get others to make an educated guess along with me, please

 

Better yet, would be if someone here knows how to look at the data stream/flow and can actually see what is going on.

 

Although the use of Roon and it’s mere presence is not best for sound quality, it has its uses.

 

Thank you for your help,

Will

[drjimwillie]

I went over and asked Jussi how Roon communicates with HQPayer. It sounds like the worst case scenario.

Roon interacts with the file or the stream and converts it, if it has to, and delivers it as a stream to HQplayer, no matter where it is.  Even if it is in the same server.

 

I asked the question in three different posts, with as much detail as I could, The last question is the link above.

 

Now it looks like the only way to get Roon to just curate the stream or file and hand it over as a URL to a player like you Euphony, would be for Roon two make another product or service available. 
 

i’ll have to see if I can get my courage together and go over there and ask nicely. 😅
 

At least my question is answered. It was a nice dream. 

[drjimwillie]

I just posted this on the “novel “thread, by accident, I intended to post it here. 

 

I put in my feature request to have Roon serve up files and URLs to the engine/player of my choice.  

this is your chance to back me up if you think it is a good idea😁

 

signed - Johnny Storm

 

[drjimwillie]

Hi

I just put a new Optane PCIe card 280GB in my server. 
I am running Euphony. Do I need to format it?

[drjimwillie]

What I am interested in is the Micro-Audio SMPS 440 TK vs the ULPS on the Taiko DC ATX. 

 

I am not sure, but I do not think that is the SMPS that Nenon was referring to previously.

 

 Thank you 

[drjimwillie]

Last night I arrived home late after being away for a family matter. The Taiko DIY chassis had been delivered early. My wife asked me what Crazy stereo stuff had I ordered that came in this big heavy box. I told her it was an empty case for a computer, she looked at me like I had two heads. When I went to pick up the box I understood why she had a hard time believing me. The box was very heavy. I went and got my scale, The box weighs 45 pounds.😳

I did not get a chance to open it. 
 

this is going to be a long term project for me because I am hip deep in other projects. 
at any time in the future if someone who has built or is working on building a DIY Sage computer and graduates to the genuine Extreme, I am looking to purchase the Sage motherboard, CPUs and RAM. Please send me a PM. 

Thank you 

Will

[drjimwillie]

PS

while we are on the subject of Troels DIY Speakers, I am building “The Loudspeaker 2” otherwise known as TL-2. 
The mid range in the middle is 10 inches

 

[drjimwillie]

Good day🙂

 

Does anyone have a gut feeling if the standard 5 cap V3 ULPS fit in the Taiko DIY server chassis?  (A quick sketch of how this would work would be great) I am assuming it would be in that partitioned section near the IEC? would the transformer fit in there as well?

 

Also, what would the Taiko 220,000 uF cap replace? Would it be the (3) 22,000 uF or the (2) 47,000 uF or all (5) Capacitors?

[drjimwillie]

1 hour ago, drjimwillie said:

Good day🙂

 

Does anyone have a gut feeling if the standard 5 cap V3 ULPS fit in the Taiko DIY server chassis?  (A quick sketch of how this would work would be great) I am assuming it would be in that partitioned section near the IEC? would the transformer fit in there as well?

 

 

I just looked at the Extreme's photos on Taiko's website, It looks like the transformer goes into that first pocket with something else?

It looks like I would have to buy/add additional copper panels for shielding.

 

Still, sketches of what anyone is planning with their ULPS would be great.

Thank you,

Will

[drjimwillie]

@JayM

Will you please post a picture of the L bracket, either correct or incorrect, so I can compare it to mine?

I will not be building the Taiko DIY Case for a few months and I would like to be able to identify if my L bracket has been fabricated correctly.

Thank you

[drjimwillie]

Hello Music loving Friends,

while we are talking about internal storage for music, Taiko uses the Hyper M2 X16 card, which holds four M.2 cards. 
I looked back in this thread and in 2020 Taiko was using - Intel 665p M.2 PCIe NVMe, when I look online for that card the other specifications are- 2280 3.0 x4 3D3, QLC, 1TB. 

 

Does anyone know if this is the M.2 card that Taiko currently uses?

 

I find it interesting now that people are using solid-state drives in their server. At one point in time everyone was removing the solid-state drives from their servers because of the “noise” it made, as reported by Romaz. 
I had a Samsung 1TB 850 Pro, with a SOTM filter that I removed. 
I never installed the M.2 drive in my Silent NAS For the same reason, using only the spinning drives.  Is it OK to use solid-state drives now 

[drjimwillie]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:17 PM, JayM said:

 

Exactly what Johnseye says. So you'd want the holes that are NOT threaded in this picture to be threaded and the ones that are threaded should not have been. Hopefully that clears it up 

 

For general info, I promised to ship all DC-DC ATX adapter plates out today. So I drove to the DHL hub of East Holland which used to be open until 20:00, however they had changed opening hours and closed at 19:00, I was there at 19:15... :(

 

I will schedule a regular pick up for tomorrow morning.

It took me a little bit of digging, but I went through things and found the two packages that say front L bracket and back L bracket.

I should have looked at Johnseye’s post closer to reference that he was talking about the back bracket. First I opened the front bracket and I did not see threads. Because it does not have any.

I opened the back bracket and with some examination with magnifying glass I could see the threads and then I realized that the threaded hole is smaller.

I might be missing something, but can’t I just flip the bracket over and the threaded holes would be on the correct side?

[drjimwillie]

Have you guys seen this direct attached copper DAC that they are talking about in the extreme thread? 
 

I am trying to copy the link, but I am not having success. Here is a photo of the page.

It looks like a fiber, optic transceiver, except it has a copper wire between each end.
 

I am not sure how to use it, but it looks like you just plug it in where you would typically have your fiber optic line. 
 

 Has anyone tried it? 
 

I currently have an Sonore optical module and an EtherRegen.   I think I would plug this DAC in, where I have my fiber transceivers. 
 

I wonder why this would be better than an ethernet cable with a Telegartner Ethernet cable?  I have one of these cables and the punch down looks like a circuit board. 

[drjimwillie]

Does it plug directly into the fiber optic transceiver port?

[drjimwillie]

When building the V3, do both chokes need to be the same? 

[drjimwillie]

2 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

something weird is happening with quotes after while...(or I'm doing something wrong)

 

@rico25

@Tatomek7

@basillus

@Exocer

 

 

Do you know roughly what the price would be? And, do you need two chokes?

I am building the V3.

[drjimwillie]

I am interested, but I would like to know more about the voltage drop, before I commit, please. 
And after you share the reason, I am assuming more knowledgeable members will chime in. 
Can he build the choke so that you do not have the voltage drop? 
I know Nenon said that the Taiko ATX sounds better at a higher voltage. 
 

I know you are busy. Moving a house is a very heavy lift 😅

[drjimwillie]

12 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

something weird is happening with quotes after while...(or I'm doing something wrong)

 

@rico25

@Tatomek7

@basillus

@Exocer

 

 

2 @letterman

2 @drjimwillie

[drjimwillie]

I live in the US in New Jersey, near NYC, I volunteer to distribute the chokes to the group in the US. I could pick up one big heavy box from the distribution center and ship individual packages out to the group. 
 

I don’t know how many people on the list are in the US and I don’t really know anything about shipping, but it can’t be that hard. 
 

If we think it is a good idea, I could use advice from experienced people.

It might just be cheaper to send it from the country of origin.  Different countries seem to have different shipping deals with the US, so I do not know if it will be cheaper.  
It must be super cheap to ship from China, somehow Ghent does it for one must be next to nothing. 😳 (this is a good example of how much I do not know about shipping. Haha)

 

I am throwing it out there as an option. It seems like it’s a community thing to do.

 

Will

[drjimwillie]

Happy Valentine’s Day, music lovers!

I hope you remember to buy flowers for your system and show it some love.

 

I am building the extreme clone with the sage motherboard. I have a question about the ASUS Hyper M.2 PCIE 3.0 card. Is the card we should use the “V2”?  Has it always been the V2? (I saw this card on the ASUS site for $54)
 

Which M.2 storage should we use? I saw on the extreme thread that the 2TB drive is the sweet spot, because they get much more expensive as they get larger.  does anyone have a suggestion on the best place to buy the M.2 cards?

I’d do not have even close to 1TB of music files, but I do plan to PGGB files in the future. I plan to install one 2TB drive now and others later. Is this incremental installation of drives going to cause me problems? To get one continuous library will I need to erase the first drive when I install the second one?  I don’t know much about this stuff, and I am trying to plan for the future, wondering if it would be an advantage to buy two drives now?

 

Thank you 

DJW