Snake Oil Test

[Ralf11]

I used to wonder why people would try to put small ball in a far away hole...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

then I realized....

 

the alternative was to eat haggis

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Always remember I'm into high performance audio not high end.

 Stephen

 I will put it to you that many members are fed up with the " Penis Envy" type posts about the High End by the usual suspects, instead of judging each item on it's own merits, heaven forbid, by actually listening to some in a well implemented room for example, with decent speakers carefully positioned  There is no way that I could ever afford some of the high end stuff that I have heard at friend's houses, although not all came close to anywhere near  justifying the asked price.

 

Alex

[emcdade]

Looks like junk to me.  Hope you didn't pay much.

 

Edit:  the price was right.

 

Edit 2:  damn you now you've got me looking at some Byron Morgan putters.

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Can't argue with that. I just ordered a shaft for the head, it will be fun to play with it and see if it will help me make a few more putts.

It is just like audio - if you have expectation bias that it will help you, it will. 

[JoeWhip]

I have not found that expectation bias helps in golf at all. Took the game up 2 years ago or so and it is hard. I am happy to have a 19 Handicap but when I try even more expensive clubs, I don’t play any better. As for putting, I find that the feel of the club to be very important. Now that is very subjective!

[firedog]

31 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

I have not found that expectation bias helps in golf at all. Took the game up 2 years ago or so and it is hard. I am happy to have a 19 Handicap but when I try even more expensive clubs, I don’t play any better. As for putting, I find that the feel of the club to be very important. Now that is very subjective!

You may  be right - but you don't  actually know what your expectation bias is. It's not necessarily what you imagine it to be in your conscious mind. 

[JoeWhip]

Perhaps. However, with audio, your mind can imagine all sorts of things that may or may not be there. The golf ball on the other hand, does not lie 😂

[Rt66indierock]

12 hours ago, sandyk said:

 Stephen

 I will put it to you that many members are fed up with the " Penis Envy" type posts about the High End by the usual suspects, instead of judging each item on it's own merits, heaven forbid, by actually listening to some in a well implemented room for example, with decent speakers carefully positioned  There is no way that I could ever afford some of the high end stuff that I have heard at friend's houses, although not all came close to anywhere near  justifying the asked price.

 

Alex

 

Alex snake oil is deceptive marketing. Nice rant but I help people set up rooms at shows.

[Rt66indierock]

9 hours ago, firedog said:

It is just like audio - if you have expectation bias that it will help you, it will. 

 

I have expectation bias until after a few practice sessions. Then  the rubber hits the road and I take it on a golf course. It works or it doesn't. 

 

In audio the first thing I do is play Pet Sounds. Then All the Young Dudes. Those two albums are pretty good at eliminating bias for me. 

[Samuel T Cogley]

What is your handicap if you swing ten times and miss ten times at every hole?  That's my handicap.  😎

 

For some reason, no one ever wants to play golf with me.  🤣

[Rt66indierock]

3 hours ago, firedog said:

You may  be right - but you don't  actually know what your expectation bias is. It's not necessarily what you imagine it to be in your conscious mind. 

 

In golf what your unconscious bias are is an interesting question. I'm building a set of Titleist 735 CM irons after testing a few irons. I can't think of a feature  in the build that doesn't involve conscious bias or objective measurement.  The objective  measurements will be verified Thursday with a Trackman session.

[Rt66indierock]

4 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

I have not found that expectation bias helps in golf at all. Took the game up 2 years ago or so and it is hard. I am happy to have a 19 Handicap but when I try even more expensive clubs, I don’t play any better. As for putting, I find that the feel of the club to be very important. Now that is very subjective!

 

I could go up the street and get the best PXG irons and wedges for the sum of $6,500 or $650 a club. I'm going to rebuild a set of Titleist 735 CM irons. They will cost $600 for a set 3-PW and be the best clubs money can buy for me.

[Blake]

This is not necessarily directed at you Rt66indierock, as you likely know all this stuff, but......

 

There are lots of variables at play in determining the "ideal" irons for any particular golfer.  Club head size and amount of perimeter weighting (players vs semi-game improvement, game improvement, super game improvement), proper club length given your height/arm length/stance, swing weight, proper lie angle, possible loft adjustments to obtain ideal ball flight, degree of bounce of the club sole, the type of sole grind, the golfers angle of attack (steep vs shallow), typical playing conditions (wet/soft vs harder turf), location of the center of gravity of the particular iron (measured by the vertical/horizontal/ relative depth location), the flex point of the shaft, the stiffness of the shaft, how the golfer loads the shaft (quick transition vs. smoother transistion) grip size- these aspects being more "objective" and measurable, and then more "subjective" variables such as the amount of offset visible at address and the "feel" of the club at impact which is mostly about sound.  

 

Sorry, now back to audio.

[Rt66indierock]

2 hours ago, Blake said:

This is not necessarily directed at you Rt66indierock, as you likely know all this stuff, but......

 

There are lots of variables at play in determining the "ideal" irons for any particular golfer.  Club head size and amount of perimeter weighting (players vs semi-game improvement, game improvement, super game improvement), proper club length given your height/arm length/stance, swing weight, proper lie angle, possible loft adjustments to obtain ideal ball flight, degree of bounce of the club sole, the type of sole grind, the golfers angle of attack (steep vs shallow), typical playing conditions (wet/soft vs harder turf), location of the center of gravity of the particular iron (measured by the vertical/horizontal/ relative depth location), the flex point of the shaft, the stiffness of the shaft, how the golfer loads the shaft (quick transition vs. smoother transistion) grip size- these aspects being more "objective" and measurable, and then more "subjective" variables such as the amount of offset visible at address and the "feel" of the club at impact which is mostly about sound.  

 

Sorry, now back to audio.

 

Offset is an objective fitting item otherwise nice list. And thank goodness  for Trackman.

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Alex snake oil is deceptive marketing. Nice rant but I help people set up rooms at shows.

 

I hope that they are far better set up than the rooms I have been in at many Hi Fi shows !

You also appear to be taking perhaps more credit than is due in the war against MQA

 Chris appears to deserve quite a bit more credit in this area.

[Rt66indierock]

15 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

I hope that they are far better set up than the rooms I have been in at many Hi Fi shows !

You also appear to be taking perhaps more credit than is due in the war against MQA

 Chris appears to deserve quite a bit more credit in this area.

 

Alex, i do damage control at shows. 

 

Just ask yourself when I was working on opposing MQA in 2016 with my friend the late Charles Hanson what was Chris going? 

[sandyk]

14 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Alex, i do damage control at shows. 

 

Just ask yourself when I was working on opposing MQA in 2016 with my friend the late Charles Hanson what was Chris going? 

 

Without the support of Chris you wouldn't have this huge thread where more importantly there has been technical exposes by both Mansr, Archimago and others, as well as user reports where the vast majority preferred the original NON MQA versions.

[mansr]

42 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Without the support of Chris you wouldn't have this huge thread where more importantly there has been technical exposes by both Mansr, Archimago and others, as well as user reports where the vast majority preferred the original NON MQA versions.

Chris deserves credit for tolerating those threads even while he himself was favourable towards MQA. Eventually, he even changed his mind, something I believe he is alone in doing on that topic.

[Ralf11]

Let us wait until the monster is truly dead before dividing up the spoils and credit for who cut its legs off while someone else was kicking it in the testicles.

[Rt66indierock]

On 1/7/2020 at 4:00 PM, Ralf11 said:

Let us wait until the monster is truly dead before dividing up the spoils and credit for who cut its legs off while someone else was kicking it in the testicles.

 

That is why I want MQA Ltd liquidated and it hasn't happened yet. I'm going to keep working to achieve that goal. 

 

But I did a quick review last night of the technical problems of MQA before I wrote the "they are going to play racquetball with your liver" post in late 2016. Everyone Alex said did technical analysis and many others had started to criticize MQA before I posted "MQA is Vaportware" and I thank them.  It allowed me to focus on MQA marketing and issues with converting files.