HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[Roasty]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:55 PM, jcn3 said:

 

looks like by connecting the two, you're creating a ground loop -- when you disconnect, you're breaking the loop.  would be interesting to connect another amp of some sort and see what happens.

 

Thanks man. I've read posts about ground loops, but never thought I'd experience it in my system, and didn't know what a ground loop would sound like. 

 

Do you suppose, putting a grounding cable and ground box to the dac would help? 

[KenMoreira]

56 minutes ago, Roasty said:

 

Thanks man. I've read posts about ground loops, but never thought I'd experience it in my system, and didn't know what a ground loop would sound like. 

 

Do you suppose, putting a grounding cable and ground box to the dac would help? 

Probably 

[Rune]

One thing that puzzles me is why so many put the May DAC directly on top of the PSU. The general recommendation has always been to put hifi separates on different shelves especially power supplies.

Also there was many pages back concerns about heat. Again separate shelves is a good idea.

 

[GoldenOne]

Just now, Rune said:

One thing that puzzles me is why so many put the May DAC directly on top of the PSU. The general recommendation has always been to put hifi separates on different shelves especially power supplies.

Also there was many pages back concerns about heat. Again separate shelves is a good idea.

 

The psu generates very little heat. It's the main dac unit which gets hot. Temps don't change whether you've got it stacked or unstacked. Main thing is don't put something ontop of the main unit. 

 

 

In terms of quality/noise, you've got two massive metal chassis in the way. 

The psu noise on my unit measures >-150dB regardless of if stacked or unstacked

[ETWok]

16 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

The psu generates very little heat. It's the main dac unit which gets hot. Temps don't change whether you've got it stacked or unstacked. Main thing is don't put something ontop of the main unit. 

 

 

In terms of quality/noise, you've got two massive metal chassis in the way. 

The psu noise on my unit measures >-150dB regardless of if stacked or unstacked

I fully concur with GoldenOne.

 

The PSU is not even warm to touch. The main unit can get a bit hot though.

And once I got the XLR to replace the RCA interconnect, no more noise AT ALL!

[Roasty]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:09 PM, Roasty said:

hey guys

 

is it not advisable to use both xlr and rca output from the May at the same time? i have the KTE May, XLR out to a Wells Audio Milo Reference headamp (and sometimes swapped for an integrated amp) and RCA out to a Singxer SA-1 headamp. 

 

when both the xlr and rca outputs are connected, i get this faint distortion/static/buzz audible with vocals of higher pitch and volume, eg female vocals at the peak of a crescendo. if i disconnect the rca cables from the Singxer headamp, the distortion/static/buzz goes away.

 

i have tried changing out cables, swapping out power cords, moving the power cord from the same block (an AQ Niagara 1200) to separate blocks and also directly to the wall outlet. but seemingly the only solution is to not use both rca/xlr together. the same issue also occurs if i swap connections ie RCA to integrated/Milo headamp and XLR to Singxer headamp, and resolved by removing the XLR connection.

 

 

Ok so i tried a ground box with grounding cable to the unused coaxial out and it didnt solve the problem.

Tried several other RCA cables and power cords into the Singxer with no luck.

Then today i decided to swap connections ie RCA into my pre, and XLR into the Singxer, and it did the trick. that distortion/buzz has gone away. Not sure what the actual problem is, but it is an OK compromise for me.

[Cogito]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:16 AM, rocky said:

I have the Holo Spring 3 level 2 here. Previous Dac was the Spring2Lv2.
Windows 10 PC with a internal JCat USB Femto v2 card to Singxer SU-6 then i2S to Holo Spring 3.

 

Have you tried connecting Spring 3 directly to JCat USB card?

[semente]

On 8/12/2021 at 8:02 PM, hemflaw said:

Hello all. I've snooped through much of this thread and still have a couple questions..

 

1) Is the assertion that (if I may paraphrase) the May DAC simply doesn't reveal differences between USB sources still holding? @GoldenOne I guess this is for you? Forgive my skepticism  -- every DAC claims to do this, has some great new design to do so, and yet, when I get it home, it sounds a heck of a lot better when you throw a (very expensive) stack of digital front-end in front of it. Has anyone tried it with statement-level digital front-ends? I'm not talking about UltraRendu level stuff, I'm talking about Antipodes CX/EX or K50, Innuos Statement level, maybe the dCS Bridge.  I'm just curious.. If this is a DAC where you can't tell the difference between a MacBook Pro and $5k or $15k worth of digital streaming/USB clean-up it would seriously be the first. All the DACs I list in question 3 respond very nicely to improvements upstream (networking, streamers, USB, etc.)

 

(I have a long back story that I won't bore you with, optimizing the digital source chain; my current tangle is 2 EtherRegens, Antipodes CX/EX, Innuos Phoenix, Antipodes P2)

 

 

2) Are we keeping a list anywhere of streamers that will pass the very high bitrates being discussed here? Most (at least in spec) do not; but it's also possible that 'DXD' or 24/384 is the highest that occurs to marketing folks to list in the spec. I noticed that a previous poster (John Hughes?) indicated the ability to play 1.536 GHz through the Stack Audio Link II; however the spec for that product if I'm not mistaken maxes out at 24/384. Perhaps it is not the only product that will pass very high rates though it's not in the spec?

 

For my part I'm trying to assess the overall cost of state-of-the-art performance from the May. The design approach is basically very a la carte: here is the best darn DAC we can build: bring your own streamer, upsampling, all of it. This is actually reasonable -- outsource the number crunching to a commodity PC. I'm just trying to figure out what I need. I'm assuming my Antipodes CX (I belive it's an i7) is not up to PCM 1.536 (or certainly DSD512) upsampling, so I'm adding the cost of the DAC, a PC powerful enough to do the EC filter / other HQP upsampling discussed here, and -- MAYBE -- a new streamer as well if my Antipodes EX won't pass these high rates.

 

In my case my DACs under consideration all do their own upsampling, which removes the ability to mess around with endless filter combos, and also simplifies things substantially. No extra PC, no learning to use the, let's call it 'basic', HQP UI.

I currently run the Uptone and Antipodes (AQ and Curious cables) digital front-end via HDMI into a PS Audio DirectStream. The candidates I'm thinking about in addition to the May-pile described above are the new PS Audio DS Mk II (forthcoming this year in theory) and the Mola Mola Tambaqui, which is a heck of a lot more money but sounds bloody incredible in my system.

 

So I guess last question:

3) Has anyone compared a fully-tricked out HQP > very good streamer > May KTE system to the Tambaqui, the dCS Bartok, or the Chord DAVE (upsampled by HQP or MS) with the Sean Jacobs DC3 / DC4?  (TwitteringMachines review of the May compares it to the Tambaqui, but only used the May in NOS mode with no sw upsampling)

 

I guess I'm only really interested in the complexity and overhead of an HQP/May system if it exceeds the performance of the Tambaqui.   Anyway, any input appreciated.

Given your high expectations and the complexity of your digital playback source I doubt that anyone’s input will be of any use to you.

[rocky]

10 hours ago, Cogito said:

 

Have you tried connecting Spring 3 directly to JCat USB card?

Not yet.

I had the Spring 2 connected to the Singxer SU-6 i2S like this, so was hoping to see if the Spring 3 was an upgrade to the sound.

Not so sure about that.

I have the Spring 3 Level 2 , so the USB does not have the new Titanis circuit. So would of thought the Singxer SU-6 using i2S should be a little better, from listening this way to my previous Holo Dacs I have owned.  (Spring 1 then Spring 2)

[Cogito]

1 hour ago, rocky said:

Not yet.

I had the Spring 2 connected to the Singxer SU-6 i2S like this, so was hoping to see if the Spring 3 was an upgrade to the sound.

Not so sure about that.

I have the Spring 3 Level 2 , so the USB does not have the new Titanis circuit. So would of thought the Singxer SU-6 using i2S should be a little better, from listening this way to my previous Holo Dacs I have owned.  (Spring 1 then Spring 2)

you have a quality USB source (JCat) and a quality USB destination (Spring). Connect them with a quality USB cable to get good results.  I don’t see a need for Singxer in the signal path.  

[rocky]

1 hour ago, Cogito said:

you have a quality USB source (JCat) and a quality USB destination (Spring). Connect them with a quality USB cable to get good results.  I don’t see a need for Singxer in the signal path.  

In the past with both the Spring 1 and Spring 2, the Singxer was a noticeable upgrade to the sound. Same setup.

So thought it might be the same with the Spring 3.

I am hoping with more hours on it, it will sound at least as good as the Spring 2. (Had great enjoyable listening sessions with that setup)

Then might try out the USB but the Singxer was a very welcome step up for me on the previous ones over straight USB.

[KenMoreira]

1 hour ago, rocky said:

In the past with both the Spring 1 and Spring 2, the Singxer was a noticeable upgrade to the sound. Same setup.

So thought it might be the same with the Spring 3.

I am hoping with more hours on it, it will sound at least as good as the Spring 2. (Had great enjoyable listening sessions with that setup)

Then might try out the USB but the Singxer was a very welcome step up for me on the previous ones over straight USB.

Holo told me, no real benefit to using a street pre, or ddc with their usb being so good. It's actually the primary input on the 3 kte 

[simonklp]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:16 PM, rocky said:

I have the Holo Spring 3 level 2 here. Previous Dac was the Spring2Lv2.
Windows 10 PC with a internal JCat USB Femto v2 card to Singxer SU-6 then i2S to Holo Spring 3.

Majority of listening is 44.1K Nos using JRiver, Foobar etc.

 

I have noticed the Spring 3 sometimes has a slight sibilance (especially female vocals), that I did not get with the Spring 2.
The overall sound is not up to what I had before. The Spring 2 was amazing in my system and have not had that with the Spring 3.
Spring 2 was over 2 years young.

Also with the Spring 3 now, there seems to be a slight emphasis on the upper midrange?. A very slight type of sharpness especially when turning up the volume a bit.

 

Reading the forums here on the May Dac, I see there is PLL locking.

So I just disabled the PLL and just started listening. 
I don't notice the sibilance anymore or the emphasis on the upper midrange. Will have to try it over the next few days.

Could it be something to do with using the Singxer SU-6 and the PLL locking is having some sort of slight detrimental effect? 
Is it possible this could be some sort of clocking issue maybe or clashing in some way with the SU-6? 

Not cluey of this stuff myself, just throwing it out there.

 

I have only started listening with PLL off but thought I might post this in case others might shed some light or notice something like this with the May when using say an external DDC.

This Spring 3 has around 280 hours so far.

@rocky, I have been paying attention to this thread for quite some time already, since I own a May for more than a year. One of the information that I want to find out is something similar to your case. I have also noticed that there is sometimes sibilance especially on vocals from May, but it only appears when I play the PCM music by upsampling it to 1411.2k by using HQPlayer. Even though, I didn't find such sibilance at upsampling frequency lower than that (e.g. at 705.6k). In addition, before the upgrade of the last USB driver about a month ago, the situation was even worse, the sibilance was not just on vocal only. In addition, it also appeared to be a type high pitch sharp noise. But it did also only happen for PCM music upsampled to 1411.2k by using HQPlayer.

 

In the past, I was not sure whether the problem was related to either HQPlayer, May, or other issues (e.g. other hardware). I have asked Jeff (designer of May) why this happened. But he has no idea, and only replied it should not be caused by the USB driver and the firmware versions. He has also said he has not heard of the feedback of this kind of problem from other users.

 

This morning, I have found that by not using the JCAT USB Card XE (i.e. via the ordinary USB port on the NAA PC), the sibilance at 1411.2k PCM upsampling has gone. I doubt whether it is due the IC chips used in the JCAT USB cards may not be from Intel that may account for this problem.

 

I would suggest that you may try to bypass the JCAT USB Card in your setup, and see if the sibilance will go away. Cheers.

[toddrhodes]

Just got my May KTE today. Warming up now with DSD128, from my Zen Stream USB. Hope to do some critical listening to it before we go on vacation in 10 days.

[GoldenOne]

11 hours ago, simonklp said:

@rocky, I have been paying attention to this thread for quite some time already, since I own a May for more than a year. One of the information that I want to find out is something similar to your case. I have also noticed that there is sometimes sibilance especially on vocals from May, but it only appears when I play the PCM music by upsampling it to 1411.2k by using HQPlayer. Even though, I didn't find such sibilance at upsampling frequency lower than that (e.g. at 705.6k). In addition, before the upgrade of the last USB driver about a month ago, the situation was even worse, the sibilance was not just on vocal only. In addition, it also appeared to be a type high pitch sharp noise. But it did also only happen for PCM music upsampled to 1411.2k by using HQPlayer.

 

In the past, I was not sure whether the problem was related to either HQPlayer, May, or other issues (e.g. other hardware). I have asked Jeff (designer of May) why this happened. But he has no idea, and only replied it should not be caused by the USB driver and the firmware versions. He has also said he has not heard of the feedback of this kind of problem from other users.

 

This morning, I have found that by not using the JCAT USB Card XE (i.e. via the ordinary USB port on the NAA PC), the sibilance at 1411.2k PCM upsampling has gone. I doubt whether it is due the IC chips used in the JCAT USB cards may not be from Intel that may account for this problem.

 

I would suggest that you may try to bypass the JCAT USB Card in your setup, and see if the sibilance will go away. Cheers.

To add to this, it's known that you need Intel for 1.536mhz to work properly. When I was testing various usb sources with the may with the two firmwares I encountered four situations:

 

1) Intel, both firmwares: 'just works', no issues, measured performance was perfect at all sample rates. 

 

2) Non-Intel, firmware 30.14. 'Just works' as above. but caps at 768khz

 

3) Non-Intel, firmware 30.12. Works absolutely fine up to 768khz. Above that it plays very robotic/weird. This was the most common situation for non-Intel devices. 

 

4) Non-Intel, firmware 30.12. Works fine up to 768khz, and APPEARS to work fine for 1.536mhz, but it sounded sibilant, and when measuring, there was odd, seemingly random distortion content which was not present normally. 

 

 

Its likely that the jcat card falls into the 4th category there. And so that was unfortunately likely the issue. 

 

The tldr: if you want to use 1.536mhz, you need an Intel device. OR get the new usb card which should do 1.536mhz on any device which can support it. 

 

But for <=768khz any usb source is fine. 

[sledwards]

1 hour ago, GoldenOne said:

4) Non-Intel, firmware 30.12. Works fine up to 768khz, and APPEARS to work fine for 1.536mhz, but it sounded sibilant, and when measuring, there was odd, seemingly random distortion content which was not present normally. 

Same experience here with the USB XE card. Sold it and have not looked back. NAA with a decent power supply sounds just fine at high rates.

[Cogito]

2 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

 

Self deleted.

[ted_b]

I believe he meant 30.14 for option four

 

i would demo specialty usb cards before spending big bucks. The May seems to sound great with many lesser Intel usb connections. My fitlet2 usb 3.0 (NAA) sounds wonderful so far

[GoldenOne]

35 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I believe he meant 30.14 for option four

 

i would demo specialty usb cards before spending big bucks. The May seems to sound great with many lesser Intel usb connections. My fitlet2 usb 3.0 (NAA) sounds wonderful so far

Nope 30.12.
If you use 30.14 then any USB source that functions properly should work.

30.12 is where intel works fine but everything else either doesn't work or appears to work but actually has some underlying issues.


But yeah, given how good the May's usb implementation is and being fully galvanically isolated (not just the 5v/gnd lines like some dacs), I've found that USB source really doesn't matter. I even sold my SMS200 Ultra.

If concerned then one could put an ifi iGalvanic between the may and their PC for reclocking/further isolation as it's fully transparent to the host and so 1.536mhz works fine through it if you're on intel
 

[tomkat]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:40 AM, mushi said:

Hey guys, i've got problem with MAY... looks like i'm stuck... MAY jams while playing music. This happens when the audio signal is supplied via aes-ebu and coax connectors, it looks like this on the display: 96K / LOCKING / 96K / LOCKING / 96K / LOCKING .. music / silence / music / silence / music / silence .. If a track is three minutes long, 2:30s is the pause and 30s is the music that plays. This problem does not occur when i'm playing music via USB. To exclude the possibility of a fault on my part, i put the audio signal through the RME ADI-2 FS DAC (via aes-ebu and coax connectors) and the above problem did not occur: When i'm playing PC >usb> MAY there is no problem When i'm playing PC >usb> miniDSP SHD Studio > aes-ebu/coax> MAY jams all the time When i'm playing PC >usb> miniDSP SHD Studio > aes-ebu/coax> RME ADI-2 FS DAC there is no problem And now the best part: my source (PC) is not connected to the miniDSP SHD Studio, i'm connecting miniDSP with the aes-ebu/coax connector to MAY and MAY starts locking... The seller claims that it is miniDSP fault, that miniDSP generates a signal that causes HoloAudio locking: "...May is very precise with its locking mechanism. Some sources do not sent clock signals all the time (while music is paused e.g.) and you will see "Locking" on your display when there is no signal output from the source."   So my setup look like this: Roon >usb> miniDSP SHD Studio >aes-ebu> MAY >... I'm using miniDSP SHD Studio as a preamp, also i can set the gain on the output:   I tried different settings but it didn't change anything..

Please tell me what do you think because i have already gone stupid...

 

 

I just received my holo audio may L2 and have been breaking it in for a day or so.  I also have a minidsp shd studio streamer and took a leap of faith that it would work with the May even after reading about your issues with the PLL.  So far so good my streamer communicates with the may perfectly via coax with the PLL on.  My streamer is connected to my LAN.  And the streamer is connected to the May with a 1.5m cardas clear coax.  Hope you eventually got your issue figured out. 

[ted_b]

Sorry I was looking at options 3 and 4 and thought one of them needed a 30.14 to differentiate

[Ozan Bolat]

1 hour ago, GoldenOne said:

Nope 30.12.
If you use 30.14 then any USB source that functions properly should work.

30.12 is where intel works fine but everything else either doesn't work or appears to work but actually has some underlying issues.


But yeah, given how good the May's usb implementation is and being fully galvanically isolated (not just the 5v/gnd lines like some dacs), I've found that USB source really doesn't matter. I even sold my SMS200 Ultra.

If concerned then one could put an ifi iGalvanic between the may and their PC for reclocking/further isolation as it's fully transparent to the host and so 1.536mhz works fine through it if you're on intel
 

I'm still curious to see your review of the Spring 3. With that DAC, choosing DSD 256 HQP 7EC modulator over 1.536mhz PCM is a no brainer, IMO thus 768 KHZ is enough to get the best out of it.

I understand one wants to find out by himself but please enlighten us :

do I and Miska and others on other forum have different appreciation criteria?

is the PCM implementation so much better in the MAy that it beats DSD 256 7EC while you would admit it doesn't with Spring 3?

if I recall correctly you say in your review of the MAy that differences between DACs used DSD was smaller so it would be interesting to know your opinion : for someone who prefers DSD 256 with S3 is there any worth buying a May over a S3?

I'm on vacation at the moment so I have known my S3 only for a week but before my departure the S3 was so much above my expectations that I wondered if I should be happy or regret I did not spend on a MAy

[ETWok]

I have the Holo May L3 now and waiting for the Holo Serene L2 to be delivered.

 

A question for those who have both the May and the Serene. Does the remote of the May control the volume of the Serene? Or does the remote of the Serene control functions of the May DAC?

[scintilla]

Maddeningly, it does not. One is labeled RMT-1, and the other RMT-2 and the volume controls on the May remote do not activate the Serene.  One of the few ridiculous missteps that Holo has made in my opinion. It's just downright stupid.

[rocky]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:56 PM, simonklp said:

@rocky, I have been paying attention to this thread for quite some time already, since I own a May for more than a year. One of the information that I want to find out is something similar to your case. I have also noticed that there is sometimes sibilance especially on vocals from May, but it only appears when I play the PCM music by upsampling it to 1411.2k by using HQPlayer. Even though, I didn't find such sibilance at upsampling frequency lower than that (e.g. at 705.6k). In addition, before the upgrade of the last USB driver about a month ago, the situation was even worse, the sibilance was not just on vocal only. In addition, it also appeared to be a type high pitch sharp noise. But it did also only happen for PCM music upsampled to 1411.2k by using HQPlayer.

 

In the past, I was not sure whether the problem was related to either HQPlayer, May, or other issues (e.g. other hardware). I have asked Jeff (designer of May) why this happened. But he has no idea, and only replied it should not be caused by the USB driver and the firmware versions. He has also said he has not heard of the feedback of this kind of problem from other users.

 

This morning, I have found that by not using the JCAT USB Card XE (i.e. via the ordinary USB port on the NAA PC), the sibilance at 1411.2k PCM upsampling has gone. I doubt whether it is due the IC chips used in the JCAT USB cards may not be from Intel that may account for this problem.

 

I would suggest that you may try to bypass the JCAT USB Card in your setup, and see if the sibilance will go away. Cheers.

 

Thanks for the reply. I have switched to straight USB for a bit to see how it all goes without the Singxer.

Did not like what I heard last night but this morning it is better.

Will do some more listening in the next week and swap around connections to see how it all pans out.