HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[quanghuy147]

2 hours ago, KenMoreira said:

 

 

Price went up on all holo items on July 18, as the supplier increased parts by 30%

 

The 1 does not have the upgraded USB module, so if usb is primary get the 2 or kte. 

 

The 1 to kte is about 3 to 5 percent  in difference.  

 

Thank you Ken, I then will go with Level 1. I'm pretty cheap and don't need USB module. :)

[barrows]

3 hours ago, camott said:

Btw, as far as I know, just because the May performs best at DSD256, does not mean that it performs best at equivalent PCM 384. The frequency/timing requirements are much easier. So I believe that on the PCM side it’s still best to go as high as possible I.e. 1536. Am I correct on this @Miska??

My point was that Holo Audio DACs perform best with DSD, not sure what you are saying about PCM.  Point being it is better to (assuming one is using HQPlayer with optimum settings) to convert all PCM to DSD before conversion, this is what I was referring to: not saying anything about PCM rates at all.

[camott]

20 minutes ago, barrows said:

My point was that Holo Audio DACs perform best with DSD, not sure what you are saying about PCM.  Point being it is better to (assuming one is using HQPlayer with optimum settings) to convert all PCM to DSD before conversion, this is what I was referring to: not saying anything about PCM rates at all.

Yes it was an aside that just because DSD256 might perform better than DSD512 doesn’t mean that PCM 768 performs better than PCM 1536. That’s what the “btw” = by-the-way preface was for …

 

Personally I don’t think DSD 256 sounds better than PCM 1536 - it’s just a little too smooth/bland/lifeless at times. Which of course is not necessarily equal to “performs best”.

Shame that Holo doesn’t make a DSD only version of the dac and save 95% of engineering/chips/r2r ladder/cost for those who don’t want PCM.

[barrows]

4 minutes ago, camott said:

Yes it was an aside that just because DSD256 might perform better than DSD512 doesn’t mean that PCM 768 performs better than PCM 1536. That was all.

 

Personally I don’t think DSD 256 sounds better than PCM 1536 - it’s just a little too smooth/bland/lifeless at times. Which of course is not necessarily equal to “performs best”.

Shame that Holo doesn’t make a DSD only version of the dac and save 95% of engineering/chips/r2r ladder/cost for those who don’t want PCM.

Agreed with the first point,  on the second, well the subjective POV would be system dependent.  Jussi has shown that DSD does perform better than PCM on Holo DACs technically via measurements.  My own subjective point of view is that DSD on a good set up sounds more like music, and PCM sounds more hyped up, or edge enhanced if you will, of course different systems may suit one approach over the other, but the superior measures of DSD suggest that on a neutral/transparent system DSD should be the more accurate to the source playback.

Again agreed on the DAC-I have been waiting for someone to make available a really good commercial DSC-2 style DAC variation for DSD only, optimized for use with HQPlayer oversampling to DSD.  A simple DAC like this, with close attention placed to all the details of power supplies, clocking, output stage, and a single well implemented USB input-optimized for DSD 256 (considering how superior many find the EC modulators) woudl be a niche product, but for some folks would be an excellent option.

[damascato]

20 minutes ago, camott said:

Yes it was an aside that just because DSD256 might perform better than DSD512 doesn’t mean that PCM 768 performs better than PCM 1536. That’s what the “btw” = by-the-way preface was for …

 

Personally I don’t think DSD 256 sounds better than PCM 1536 - it’s just a little too smooth/bland/lifeless at times. Which of course is not necessarily equal to “performs best”.

Shame that Holo doesn’t make a DSD only version of the dac and save 95% of engineering/chips/r2r ladder/cost for those who don’t want PCM.

It's just a matter of economy of scale. Even amongst audiophiles, which is already a niche audience, the ones who don't like (or use) PCM is a fraction of a fraction, which I'm not able to quantify without sounding stupid but... small.

 

[camott]

21 minutes ago, damascato said:

It's just a matter of economy of scale. Even amongst audiophiles, which is already a niche audience, the ones who don't like (or use) PCM is a fraction of a fraction, which I'm not able to quantify without sounding stupid but... small.

 

Sure but it’s interesting that most of the hype about the May DAC is around it’s performance with NOS PCM, via the highly engineered R2R ladder and FPGA error correction. If you are just using DSD why spend all that money on engineering that you aren’t using?

In DSD mode how much better is it than a much cheaper RME or topping DAC? (I don’t know the answer myself). 

[KenMoreira]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

My point was that Holo Audio DACs perform best with DSD, not sure what you are saying about PCM.  Point being it is better to (assuming one is using HQPlayer with optimum settings) to convert all PCM to DSD before conversion, this is what I was referring to: not saying anything about PCM rates at all.

What is the reference for dsd is superior on holo dacs to pcm?  Just how you feel? 

[barrows]

50 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

What is the reference for dsd is superior on holo dacs to pcm?  Just how you feel? 

Superior measured performance, measurements by Jussi.  Less artifacts via DSD 256 playback vs. any rate of PCM.

[Foggie]

Lampi has/had a DSD only dac.  Pre the current model designs, DSD on the chipless Lampi's sorta put them on the map so to speak and was one of the few that focused in that vein (DSD).  I don't think that's their focus as much anymore. 

[ETWok]

My Holo May has arrived from Hong Kong. Had burn in of 24 hours. Have just been comparing the width of the sound stage between Hegel H190’s built in DAC and that of the May. I find that at the moment, there is hardly any difference between the two. 
 

When people say the sound stage of May is wide, does it mean the instruments on the extreme sides are further away from the speakers?

 

3-5 hundred hours of burn in will see widening of the sound stage? What’s your experience?

[John Hughes]

17 hours ago, camott said:

Sure but it’s interesting that most of the hype about the May DAC is around it’s performance with NOS PCM, via the highly engineered R2R ladder and FPGA error correction. If you are just using DSD why spend all that money on engineering that you aren’t using?

In DSD mode how much better is it than a much cheaper RME or topping DAC? (I don’t know the answer myself). 

I had the Topping D90 and the May's DSD performance is clearly superior in every way. 

[KenMoreira]

2 minutes ago, John Hughes said:

I had the Topping D90 and the May's DSD performance is clearly superior in every way. 

I'm going from the 90 to spring 3 kte.  I hope theirs an improvement in all aspects. With dsd and pcm. No reviews to compare 90 to holo anywhere 

[Miska]

17 hours ago, camott said:

Sure but it’s interesting that most of the hype about the May DAC is around it’s performance with NOS PCM, via the highly engineered R2R ladder and FPGA error correction. If you are just using DSD why spend all that money on engineering that you aren’t using?

 

Same way if you are using just the R2R PCM mode and not the DSD side, why spend all that money on engineering that you aren't using?

 

Reason is that leaving out the PCM side wouldn't make the device so much cheaper or simpler. Since you'd still need the same USB interface, the same PSU's, the DSD conversion side, same analog stages, same case work, etc... You would just leave out bunch of SMD resistors and that's all.

 

Quote

In DSD mode how much better is it than a much cheaper RME or topping DAC? (I don’t know the answer myself).

 

You could ask this same question about PCM mode.

 

[Quadman]

49 minutes ago, John Hughes said:

In DSD mode how much better is it than a much cheaper RME or topping DAC? (I don’t know the answer myself). 

I came from a T+A Dac8DSD, a very highly regarded dac especially when up sampling to higher rates of DSD, I ran mostly DSD512.  I had that dac for almost 3 years, I knew it well.  The Holo May cleaned its clock, it wasn't even close.  I listen to the Holo at mostly DSD256 with EC modulators, or DSD512.  If I am not listening to DSD then I am NOS with no oversampling, straight stream.  I really like that as well.  Higher rates of PCM up sampling (1.4 & 1.5MHz), do have more transparency and maybe a bit more punch but lack soul.  Extended listening sessions, which I do a lot of, high rate PCM becomes boring and fatiguing.  I want to turn the music off and do something else.  With High rate DSD I just want to play more music.

 

Just look at the May's power supply and compare that to most any other dac.  I have learned through the years the better the PSU the better the component.  Combine the May's incredible engineering with that huge and well designed PSU and you have one of the very best dacs out there.  Just look at used for sale sites do you ever see a holo may there?  No, I see almost every other brand tho.

[KenMoreira]

2 minutes ago, Quadman said:

I came from a T+A Dac8DSD, a very highly regarded dac especially when up sampling to higher rates of DSD, I ran mostly DSD512.  I had that dac for almost 3 years, I knew it well.  The Holo May cleaned its clock, it wasn't even close.  I listen to the Holo at mostly DSD256 with EC modulators, or DSD512.  If I am not listening to DSD then I am NOS with no oversampling, straight stream.  I really like that as well.  Higher rates of PCM up sampling (1.4 & 1.5MHz), do have more transparency and maybe a bit more punch but lack soul.  Extended listening sessions, which I do a lot of, high rate PCM becomes boring and fatiguing.  I want to turn the music off and do something else.  With High rate DSD I just want to play more music.

 

Just look at the May's power supply and compare that to most any other dac.  I have learned through the years the better the PSU the better the component.  Combine the May's incredible engineering with that huge and well designed PSU and you have one of the very best dacs out there.  Just look at used for sale sites do you ever see a holo may there?  No, I see almost every other brand tho.

This is why I got the spring kte, thinking of in the future getting a power station or battery power so it's totally clean. 

 

[zelkop]

Following the experiences explained earlier in this forum, I ordered Stack Audio Liink II with its linear power supply and set it up as a Roon end point in less than five minutes. I connected it via Cardas usb cable to Holo May L2 dac which further goes into a BAT preamp and McIntosh power amps and Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers. The improvement in sound is quite obvious in my system as compared to earlier direct usb connection between the fanless Roon NUC core and same Holo May dac. Simply speaking, the sound became cleaner and more resolute and punctual. The effect is as if someone pressed the button to let the extreme frequencies out and further separate them in the air. I am happy with the audible improvement I got without a four digit price. I would conclude that (in spite of May's high quality usb input) it is still much better to use a usb network bridge than to connect it directly to a pc's usb output; the difference was clear in my case.

[quanghuy147]

I'm a dumb about DSD. Could anyone help answer my questions?

 

I'm debating myself between level 1 and level 2 (Level 3 is said (by Golden Sound Youtuber) to be just 2% snappier than level 2 so I don't want to spend $800 on the 2% difference). I don't know if I'm going to use USB with May or not. Does DSD work only with USB?

 

Currently I am using Allo Signature Player's Coax to feeding my Yggy DAC. I'm don't know if Coax can effectively work with DSD as USB?

 

Thank you. 

[KenMoreira]

8 minutes ago, quanghuy147 said:

I'm a dumb about DSD. Could anyone help answer my questions?

 

I'm debating myself between level 1 and level 2 (Level 3 is said (by Golden Sound Youtuber) to be just 2% snappier than level 2 so I don't want to spend $800 on the 2% difference). I don't know if I'm going to use USB with May or not. Does DSD work only with USB?

 

Currently I am using Allo Signature Player's Coax to feeding my Yggy DAC. I'm don't know if Coax can effectively work with DSD as USB?

 

Thank you. 

The 2 also has upgrades to fuses and caps etc. It's not just the usb module. 

[mr. Fancypants]

Taken from Magna Hifi website regarding the L2 May:

 

"All digital input interfaces support DSD (DOP mode)"

 

I use the I2S input for DSD file playback from a modded Oppo 203 player with my May dac.

[Ozan Bolat]

On 8/13/2021 at 4:00 PM, ETWok said:

My Holo May has arrived from Hong Kong. Had burn in of 24 hours. Have just been comparing the width of the sound stage between Hegel H190’s built in DAC and that of the May. I find that at the moment, there is hardly any difference between the two. 
 

When people say the sound stage of May is wide, does it mean the instruments on the extreme sides are further away from the speakers?

 

3-5 hundred hours of burn in will see widening of the sound stage? What’s your experience?

I'm not sure at all about this 500 burn in thing and rather think after 24 hours you should consider that if you don't like it or think it as worthwhile, this is it.

 

I have a Spring 3 : might be different but I would not rave about sound stage width but rather about precise localisation in DSD mode (big difference with PCM IMO) : here, that distant voice I heard wandering is now from a man who is not moving but his voice is surrounded by reverb ; here right hand of the keyboard and resonances from the piano body caused by left hand are distinguable just as in live, here there's air and distance between the baryton and the accompanying piano (he's clearly not leaning on it !)

The DAC having a fantastic density, even the most left or right instruments or, say, the right hand of that accompanying piano on the left speaker, have so much flesh that there's a presence on the sides of the sound stage which is beyond what I experienced previously but I would not call this sound stage width per se.

 

[ETWok]

Quote

4 hours ago, Ozan Bolat said:

I have a Spring 3 : might be different but I would not rave about sound stage width but rather about precise localisation in DSD mode (big difference with PCM IMO) : here, that distant voice I heard wandering is now from a man who is not moving but his voice is surrounded by reverb ; here right hand of the keyboard and resonances from the piano body caused by left hand are distinguable just as in live, here there's air and distance between the baryton and the accompanying piano (he's clearly not leaning on it !)

The DAC having a fantastic density, even the most left or right instruments or, say, the right hand of that accompanying piano on the left speaker, have so much flesh that there's a presence on the sides of the sound stage which is beyond what I experienced previously but I would not call this sound stage width per se.

 

Thanks! Very helpful.

[dkdali]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:36 PM, hemflaw said:

 

Sorry, just to confirm -- what Innuos product are you using?

 

From https://innuos.com/statement/

Sample Rates:

44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4KHz. 192kHz, 352.8KHz, 384KHz, DSD64, DSD128, Native DSD up to DSD512 on selected DACs

 

This is the second time someone on here has confirmed 1.536 Ghz output on a device where the manufacturer max spec is 384 khz.  : ) 

 

I guess we do need a list.

I have a Zenith and it maxes out at 768kHz in Roon. Not sure why Innuos only writes 384kHz - maybe that is the limit in their own SW

But it is a Intel based motherboard so HQP can run 1536kHz on it.

[ETWok]

Have my Holo May DAC for 4 days now.

 

Just found out that when they are stacked, static noise can be heard (with ear fairly close to the speaker) from the speakers when volume of the Hegel H190 is turned to max. Once they are not stacked, the noise is totally gone.

 

The noise level is fairly high. As a comparison, the internal DAC of the Hegel's noise is about one twentieth of that of the May when stacked. Unstacked, totally silent.

[damascato]

7 minutes ago, ETWok said:

Have my Holo May DAC for 4 days now.

 

Just found out that when they are stacked, static noise can be heard (with ear fairly close to the speaker) from the speakers when volume of the Hegel H190 is turned to max. Once they are not stacked, the noise is totally gone.

 

The noise level is fairly high. As a comparison, the internal DAC of the Hegel's noise is about one twentieth of that of the May when stacked. Unstacked, totally silent.

Interesting because I have the same DAC+Amp configuration and I don't have any of that with the power and DAC units stacked...

[ETWok]

1 hour ago, damascato said:

Interesting because I have the same DAC+Amp configuration and I don't have any of that with the power and DAC units stacked...

Have you tried pausing the music from source then crank the volume on the amp to 99? I get the noise then.
But no noise that way when I unstack the May. 
We might say at normal listening level the noise are not noticeable but that is besides the point, if you know what I mean.