HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[scintilla]

Perhaps the latest ipad pro with a USB C port will, as it supports USB class 3.  

[damascato]

Ye

13 hours ago, ETWok said:

Hi all, I am new to this forum. Just ordered the Holo Audio May KTE from Wildism, and will be shipped later today.

 

I have one question, does an iPad connected via USB work with the May?

Yes it does from USB-C iPad Pro. From my iPhone it doesn’t, though.

[Miska]

On 8/6/2021 at 3:15 AM, WilliamWykeham said:

"theoretically it can do ... 3.072Mhz", what are the points in the audio chain preventing the theoretical limit from being reached today.  

 

USB Audio Class...

[87mpi]

On 7/5/2021 at 10:30 PM, GoldenOne said:

Per il supporto 1.536mhz è necessario eseguire il flashing del firmware 30.12 sul dac. E devi avere un dispositivo sorgente Intel

Hi, Does this also apply to Spring 3 KTE (same usb module as May)?  

I can't go beyond 768 with Hqplayer Naa (Miska's HQP OS image) with NUC 8 i3. 

But there isn't Spring 3 firmware downloadable.. 

[GoldenOne]

1 minute ago, 87mpi said:

Hi, Does this also apply to Spring 3 KTE (same usb module as May)?  I can't go beyond 768 with Hqplayer Naa (Miska's OS image) with NUC 8 i3. 

But there isn't Spring 3 firmware downloadable.. 

Yes. 

The firmware file is the same for may and spring 3 you you use the same download for both. Can grab it from the may page. 

 

 

[87mpi]

3 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

Sì. 

Il file del firmware è lo stesso per maggio e primavera 3 si utilizza lo stesso download per entrambi. Puoi prenderlo dalla pagina di maggio. 

 

 

Thank you so much! 🙏🙏🙏

30.12 for intel? 

[KenMoreira]

I would have assumed the firmware in the spring 3 would have been up to date out of factory.  Good to know 

[GoldenOne]

5 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

I would have assumed the firmware in the spring 3 would have been up to date out of factory.  Good to know 

It is. 

 

30.12 and 30.14 are interchangeable. Neither is newer than the other they are just different. 

 

From the factory the may and spring 3 ship with 30.14 because that works with any usb source. 

Whereas 30.12 whilst it does support 1.536mhz, doesn't always work properly with non-Intel devices. So they ship with 30.14 to ensure all customers can plug and play. 

[87mpi]

1 hour ago, GoldenOne said:

Yes. 

 

The firmware file is the same for may and spring 3 you you use the same download for both. Can grab it from the may page . 

 

 

Confirm! It works! Spring 3 KTE comes out with firmware 30.14. Just flashed on 30.12 and works perfectly as Naa with Miska's HQP OS image.

Instead using the NAA under Gentooplayer OS with 5.11.3 CK kernel there is clearly a problem, on the display comes out 1.536 but strange sound comes out .. Slow and noisy ..

 

Thanks so much again! 

🙏

[KenMoreira]

10 minutes ago, 87mpi said:

Confirm! It works! Spring 3 KTE comes out with firmware 30.14. Just flashed on 30.12 and works perfectly as Naa with Miska's HQP OS image.

Instead using the NAA under Gentooplayer OS with 5.11.3 CK kernel there is clearly a problem, on the display comes out 1.536 but strange sound comes out .. Slow and noisy ..

 

Thanks so much again! 

🙏

Can you point me to instructions on flashing 

[87mpi]

16 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

Can you point me to instructions on flashing 

They are indicated in a file.txt inside the compressed file that you download and that you will need to extract.

1.You need to run the executable to install 5.00 drivers, then connect the dac to the PC and turn on.

2. Find several folders once extracted. Copy the entire folder "... 30.12 ..." into the driver installation directory (.. /program files/holo audio/usb driver/win10 64).

3. Run holoauduiousbdfu.exe

Enjoy

[michaelvv]

Waiting on my Holo May L2 , but wonder if someone have tried the firmware upgrade on wine Linux ,

as I haven't got a windows PC at all.

Or a VirtualBox , KVM emulator ???

 

 

[hemflaw]

Hello all. I've snooped through much of this thread and still have a couple questions..

 

1) Is the assertion that (if I may paraphrase) the May DAC simply doesn't reveal differences between USB sources still holding? @GoldenOne I guess this is for you? Forgive my skepticism  -- every DAC claims to do this, has some great new design to do so, and yet, when I get it home, it sounds a heck of a lot better when you throw a (very expensive) stack of digital front-end in front of it. Has anyone tried it with statement-level digital front-ends? I'm not talking about UltraRendu level stuff, I'm talking about Antipodes CX/EX or K50, Innuos Statement level, maybe the dCS Bridge.  I'm just curious.. If this is a DAC where you can't tell the difference between a MacBook Pro and $5k or $15k worth of digital streaming/USB clean-up it would seriously be the first. All the DACs I list in question 3 respond very nicely to improvements upstream (networking, streamers, USB, etc.)

 

(I have a long back story that I won't bore you with, optimizing the digital source chain; my current tangle is 2 EtherRegens, Antipodes CX/EX, Innuos Phoenix, Antipodes P2)

 

 

2) Are we keeping a list anywhere of streamers that will pass the very high bitrates being discussed here? Most (at least in spec) do not; but it's also possible that 'DXD' or 24/384 is the highest that occurs to marketing folks to list in the spec. I noticed that a previous poster (John Hughes?) indicated the ability to play 1.536 GHz through the Stack Audio Link II; however the spec for that product if I'm not mistaken maxes out at 24/384. Perhaps it is not the only product that will pass very high rates though it's not in the spec?

 

For my part I'm trying to assess the overall cost of state-of-the-art performance from the May. The design approach is basically very a la carte: here is the best darn DAC we can build: bring your own streamer, upsampling, all of it. This is actually reasonable -- outsource the number crunching to a commodity PC. I'm just trying to figure out what I need. I'm assuming my Antipodes CX (I belive it's an i7) is not up to PCM 1.536 (or certainly DSD512) upsampling, so I'm adding the cost of the DAC, a PC powerful enough to do the EC filter / other HQP upsampling discussed here, and -- MAYBE -- a new streamer as well if my Antipodes EX won't pass these high rates.

 

In my case my DACs under consideration all do their own upsampling, which removes the ability to mess around with endless filter combos, and also simplifies things substantially. No extra PC, no learning to use the, let's call it 'basic', HQP UI.

I currently run the Uptone and Antipodes (AQ and Curious cables) digital front-end via HDMI into a PS Audio DirectStream. The candidates I'm thinking about in addition to the May-pile described above are the new PS Audio DS Mk II (forthcoming this year in theory) and the Mola Mola Tambaqui, which is a heck of a lot more money but sounds bloody incredible in my system.

 

So I guess last question:

3) Has anyone compared a fully-tricked out HQP > very good streamer > May KTE system to the Tambaqui, the dCS Bartok, or the Chord DAVE (upsampled by HQP or MS) with the Sean Jacobs DC3 / DC4?  (TwitteringMachines review of the May compares it to the Tambaqui, but only used the May in NOS mode with no sw upsampling)

 

I guess I'm only really interested in the complexity and overhead of an HQP/May system if it exceeds the performance of the Tambaqui.   Anyway, any input appreciated.

[barrows]

16 minutes ago, hemflaw said:

2) Are we keeping a list anywhere of streamers that will pass the very high bitrates being discussed here? Most (at least in spec) do not; but it's also possible that 'DXD' or 24/384 is the highest that occurs to marketing folks to list in the spec. I noticed that a previous poster (John Hughes?) indicated the ability to play 1.536 GHz through the Stack Audio Link II; however the spec for that product if I'm not mistaken maxes out at 24/384. Perhaps it is not the only product that will pass very high rates though it's not in the spec?

Sonore Rendu products will do up to PCM 768 and DSD 512 confirmed, and may be able to do PCM 1.5x MHz and DSD 1024, but this has not been tested (very few DACs support these rates).  Also note that is is unlikely that any other source can deliver a cleaner USB output than the Signature Rendu SEoptical.  @Miska has noted that Holo Audio DACs perform "best", as I recall, with DSD 256 input, and HQPlayer achieves very high performance with DSD 256 via the EC modulators (higher rates of DSD are not possible with the EC level modulators).

[dkdali]

Innuos’s servers can run HQPlayer OS and upsample to 1536kHz. No need for external PC and it sounds amazing 😎👍

[quanghuy147]

Hello everyone, 

I'm trying to buy a May DAC. I checked the price on Kitsune website. The current price is $5600 (KTE version) plus $230 for shipping. 

 

I watched some Youtube reviews about this DAC. They mentioned the price is $5000. I wonder if Kitsune just recently increased the price?

 

Also, May has 3 version L1 is $4200, KTE is $5600. Which version should I buy? Could you recommend? 

 

By the way, if anyone is going to sell May, please let me know :) I hope to save some bucks buying a used one. 

 

Thank you. 

Huy

[KenMoreira]

3 minutes ago, quanghuy147 said:

Hello everyone, 

I'm trying to buy a May DAC. I checked the price on Kitsune website. The current price is $5600 (KTE version) plus $230 for shipping. 

 

I watched some Youtube reviews about this DAC. They mentioned the price is $5000. I wonder if Kitsune just recently increased the price?

 

Also, May has 3 version L1 is $4200, KTE is $5600. Which version should I buy? Could you recommend? 

 

By the way, if anyone is going to sell May, please let me know :) I hope to save some bucks buying a used one. 

 

Thank you. 

Huy

 

 

Price went up on all holo items on July 18, as the supplier increased parts by 30%

 

The 1 does not have the upgraded USB module, so if usb is primary get the 2 or kte. 

 

The 1 to kte is about 3 to 5 percent  in difference.  

[hemflaw]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

...  Also note that is is unlikely that any other source can deliver a cleaner USB output than the Signature Rendu SEoptical.

...What is your basis for saying that? Are you relying on your experience listening to many high-end streamers?

[KenMoreira]

Just now, hemflaw said:

...What is your basis for saying that? Are you relying on your experience listening to many high-end streamers?

I'm pretty happy with my usbridge signature. With allo shanti linear power supply.   The Ethernet and USB pcb are totally seperated and so are the 2 rails of the power supply. 

[hemflaw]

1 hour ago, dkdali said:

Innuos’s servers can run HQPlayer OS and upsample to 1536kHz. No need for external PC and it sounds amazing 😎👍

How handy -- that's an advantage over Antipodes I guess (unless they get back to me otherwise their limit is 24/384). Is their HQP implentation set up as a Roon endpoint? Or using the janky HQP UI? Or perhaps the Innuos software player?

[dkdali]

3 minutes ago, hemflaw said:

How handy -- that's an advantage over Antipodes I guess (unless they get back to me otherwise their limit is 24/384). Is their HQP implentation set up as a Roon endpoint? Or using the janky HQP UI? Or perhaps the Innuos software player?

I use it as a normal Roon endpoint. You can even see the filters and samplerate HQP is using directly in Roon

[hemflaw]

17 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

I'm pretty happy with my usbridge signature. With allo shanti linear power supply.   The Ethernet and USB pcb are totally seperated and so are the 2 rails of the power supply. 

Thanks for that... I've used the USBridge Sig... While I appreciate your input, it is not in the same league as many higher-end streamers. You have to get beyond believing manufacturer claims and differentially compare competing products in a revealing system to understand if there are differences. (Again I'm proceeding on the assumption that most DACs -- including many that I've tried at price points from <$1k to $15k -- reveal differences between different USB sources. If the May has somehow overcome this then -- amazing. But I doubt it. ..Happy to be proven wrong)

[hemflaw]

23 minutes ago, dkdali said:

I use it as a normal Roon endpoint. You can even see the filters and samplerate HQP is using directly in Roon

 

Sorry, just to confirm -- what Innuos product are you using?

 

From https://innuos.com/statement/

Sample Rates:

44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4KHz. 192kHz, 352.8KHz, 384KHz, DSD64, DSD128, Native DSD up to DSD512 on selected DACs

 

This is the second time someone on here has confirmed 1.536 Ghz output on a device where the manufacturer max spec is 384 khz.  : ) 

 

I guess we do need a list.

[John Hughes]

3 hours ago, hemflaw said:

Hello all. I've snooped through much of this thread and still have a couple questions..

 

1) Is the assertion that (if I may paraphrase) the May DAC simply doesn't reveal differences between USB sources still holding? @GoldenOne I guess this is for you? Forgive my skepticism  -- every DAC claims to do this, has some great new design to do so, and yet, when I get it home, it sounds a heck of a lot better when you throw a (very expensive) stack of digital front-end in front of it. Has anyone tried it with statement-level digital front-ends? I'm not talking about UltraRendu level stuff, I'm talking about Antipodes CX/EX or K50, Innuos Statement level, maybe the dCS Bridge.  I'm just curious.. If this is a DAC where you can't tell the difference between a MacBook Pro and $5k or $15k worth of digital streaming/USB clean-up it would seriously be the first. All the DACs I list in question 3 respond very nicely to improvements upstream (networking, streamers, USB, etc.)

 

(I have a long back story that I won't bore you with, optimizing the digital source chain; my current tangle is 2 EtherRegens, Antipodes CX/EX, Innuos Phoenix, Antipodes P2)

 

 

2) Are we keeping a list anywhere of streamers that will pass the very high bitrates being discussed here? Most (at least in spec) do not; but it's also possible that 'DXD' or 24/384 is the highest that occurs to marketing folks to list in the spec. I noticed that a previous poster (John Hughes?) indicated the ability to play 1.536 GHz through the Stack Audio Link II; however the spec for that product if I'm not mistaken maxes out at 24/384. Perhaps it is not the only product that will pass very high rates though it's not in the spec?

 

For my part I'm trying to assess the overall cost of state-of-the-art performance from the May. The design approach is basically very a la carte: here is the best darn DAC we can build: bring your own streamer, upsampling, all of it. This is actually reasonable -- outsource the number crunching to a commodity PC. I'm just trying to figure out what I need. I'm assuming my Antipodes CX (I belive it's an i7) is not up to PCM 1.536 (or certainly DSD512) upsampling, so I'm adding the cost of the DAC, a PC powerful enough to do the EC filter / other HQP upsampling discussed here, and -- MAYBE -- a new streamer as well if my Antipodes EX won't pass these high rates.

 

In my case my DACs under consideration all do their own upsampling, which removes the ability to mess around with endless filter combos, and also simplifies things substantially. No extra PC, no learning to use the, let's call it 'basic', HQP UI.

I currently run the Uptone and Antipodes (AQ and Curious cables) digital front-end via HDMI into a PS Audio DirectStream. The candidates I'm thinking about in addition to the May-pile described above are the new PS Audio DS Mk II (forthcoming this year in theory) and the Mola Mola Tambaqui, which is a heck of a lot more money but sounds bloody incredible in my system.

 

So I guess last question:

3) Has anyone compared a fully-tricked out HQP > very good streamer > May KTE system to the Tambaqui, the dCS Bartok, or the Chord DAVE (upsampled by HQP or MS) with the Sean Jacobs DC3 / DC4?  (TwitteringMachines review of the May compares it to the Tambaquut only used the May in NOS mode with no sw upsampling)

 

I guess I'm only really interested in the complexity and overhead of an HQP/May system if it exceeds the performance of the Tambaqui.   Anyway, any input appreciated.

 So, for me, changes to the streamer etc. feeding the May via USB does make a sonic difference.  I've tried several, a Rasberry Pi4, a USBridge Signature with Shanti LPS, and the Stack Audio II with and without their LPS.  They performed to my ears from mediocre to best as listed.  I heard clear but not huge differences between them.  With the best sounding smoother, with darker backgrounds (quieter), tighter fuller bass, more clear and refined treble.  Probably its less of a change than I've heard with other gear, but it was still there.  

 

I use a NVidia Shield Pro for video which connects at 1.5M, but it upsamples most audio to 192K to that it changes to when I press play.  I use a Kitsune Singxer SU2 most times to convert the USB to AES so I can have two USB sources into the May.  (When will DAC manufacturers start offering multiple USB inputs???)  The Stack II connects to the May at DSD 1024X until music is fed to it when it turns to the sample rate of the file.  I was not able to get HQ Player Naa through the Stack to play files above 768K.  I've been told that my AMD processor on my PC is the likely culprit there though.  I couldn't find a 1.5M PCM file online to test it directly.  If someone has a link for that, I'd like to try. 

 

The Stack II will play 32bit 384K DXD files without problems with the May.  I have also played native DSD 512 files through the Stack II as well.  

[camott]

3 hours ago, barrows said:

Sonore Rendu products will do up to PCM 768 and DSD 512 confirmed, and may be able to do PCM 1.5x MHz and DSD 1024, but this has not been tested (very few DACs support these rates).  Also note that is is unlikely that any other source can deliver a cleaner USB output than the Signature Rendu SEoptical.  @Miska has noted that Holo Audio DACs perform "best", as I recall, with DSD 256 input, and HQPlayer achieves very high performance with DSD 256 via the EC modulators (higher rates of DSD are not possible with the EC level modulators).

Btw, as far as I know, just because the May performs best at DSD256, does not mean that it performs best at equivalent PCM 384. The frequency/timing requirements are much easier. So I believe that on the PCM side it’s still best to go as high as possible I.e. 1536. Am I correct on this @Miska??