HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[idiot_savant]

@GoldenOne - do we know any more about the “OS DSD” mode - can you capture a wider bandwidth? 20k is kind of where DSD starts to get interesting. 
oh, and does this have a digital volume control?

 

 

 

 

your friendly neighbourhood idiot 

[barrows]

17 minutes ago, idiot_savant said:

@GoldenOne - do we know any more about the “OS DSD” mode - can you capture a wider bandwidth? 20k is kind of where DSD starts to get interesting. 
oh, and does this have a digital volume control?

 

 

 

 

your friendly neighbourhood idiot 

OS DSD uses the AKM oversampling chip, which is not very sophisticated in its performance.  If you are interested in oversampling to DSD for the May, I wild highly recommend doing so in HQPlayer, which features the most sophisticated conversions to DSD available anywhere.  The May does not have a volume control, but of course if you use HQPlayer, to oversample to DSD, you can also take advantage of HQPlayer's superb digital volume control.

[luisma]

27 minutes ago, barrows said:

I wild highly recommend doing so in HQPlayer, which features the most sophisticated conversions to DSD available anywhere.  The May does not have a volume control, but of course if you use HQPlayer, to oversample to DSD, you can also take advantage of HQPlayer's superb digital volume control.

Completely agree, just I would add that for the "get interesting" comment "typically" you will have a cut at Nyquist 22.05 kHz anyway.

[mr. Fancypants]

14 hours ago, audio.bill said:

For anyone in the US who's purchased the KTE Holo DAC from Kitsune, is it shipped directly to you from Holo Audio? If so I'd be curious to know how much duty, taxes and related fees are typically assessed. TIA for sharing your experience.

The DAC is shipped from Kitsune Audio (in Washington state?), so there are no issues with international shipping.  There is some assembly done by Kitsune, so if you place an order today, the DAC does not ship immediately.  I ordered a KTE a few weeks ago and was told to expect around 5 weeks before it would be ready. 

[JMD54]

Mine was shipped direct from the factory via DHL and nothing was due on receipt.  According to Tim this is the normal process. 

[k27R]

My KTE was shipped directly  from Hong Kong to US. 

[idiot_savant]

10 hours ago, luisma said:

Completely agree, just I would add that for the "get interesting" comment "typically" you will have a cut at Nyquist 22.05 kHz anyway.

I'm not talking about Nyquist ( which isn't 22.05kHz for DSD... ), I'm talking about the out of band noise - DSD64 typically has lots of quantisation noise that rises dramatically above 20kHz, and the amount and shape of it should tell us what flavour of DSD it is. A 20kHz tone would be interesting to see the filter performance, for those not running PC-based upsampling

 

 

 

your friendly neighbourhood idiot

[luisma]

1 hour ago, idiot_savant said:

I'm not talking about Nyquist ( which isn't 22.05kHz for DSD... ), I'm talking about the out of band noise - DSD64 typically has lots of quantisation noise that rises dramatically above 20kHz, and the amount and shape of it should tell us what flavour of DSD it is. A 20kHz tone would be interesting to see the filter performance, for those not running PC-based upsampling

 

 

 

your friendly neighbourhood idiot

My apologies, I didn't follow prioerky, I am using HQPlayer (which barrows also mentioned) and you were indeed referring to the actual DSD OS passing through the AKM chip which will remodulate noise by product to ultrasonics, no PC upsampling obviously.

 

EDIT,
*Properly, (prioerky).? Since Microsoft purchased SwiftKey it is just going downhill

[TA75]

Some remarks. For whatever reason, the kte doesn't play music on random times when changing bit rate or going from dsd to pcm. Usually, when there is a change, I can see on the screen right before it plays: Unlock . Then it switches the screen to the file format/bitrate and it plays normally. I'd say 1/20 or 1/30 times it doesn't write the unlock and although the file is playing on roon, there is no sound coming out. I need to switch format for it to unlock into another file and then back again. Also for whatever reason, my remote never worked. Anyone else experience this?

[lpost]

What is your source? Sounds like it could have too much jitter for the pll to lock sometimes. You can turn off pll to test this theory.

[lpost]

On 6/15/2021 at 7:06 AM, audio.bill said:

For anyone in the US who's purchased the KTE Holo DAC from Kitsune, is it shipped directly to you from Holo Audio? If so I'd be curious to know how much duty, taxes and related fees are typically assessed. TIA for sharing your experience.

Shipped direct from Holo out of Hong Kong. Kitsune does not receive them. No duties. Just the price plus shipping.

[Hiker]

5 minutes ago, lpost said:

Shipped direct from Holo out of Hong Kong. Kitsune does not receive them. No duties. Just the price plus shipping.

Same up here except I paid duties of $43.00 Canadian dollars with exchange on the dollars is equal to $1.55 USD ,,…

[lpost]

20 hours ago, mr. Fancypants said:

The DAC is shipped from Kitsune Audio (in Washington state?), so there are no issues with international shipping.  There is some assembly done by Kitsune, so if you place an order today, the DAC does not ship immediately.  I ordered a KTE a few weeks ago and was told to expect around 5 weeks before it would be ready. 

Not according to Tim at Kitsune. All levels are built by Jeff Zhu's team of enthusiasts and shipped from China/Hong Kong. Tim does not mod the May.

[Extreme_Boky]

8 hours ago, TA75 said:

Some remarks. For whatever reason, the kte doesn't play music on random times when changing bit rate or going from dsd to pcm. Usually, when there is a change, I can see on the screen right before it plays: Unlock . Then it switches the screen to the file format/bitrate and it plays normally. I'd say 1/20 or 1/30 times it doesn't write the unlock and although the file is playing on roon, there is no sound coming out. I need to switch format for it to unlock into another file and then back again. Also for whatever reason, my remote never worked. Anyone else experience this?

 

May takes a bit of time to lock. I think they know this is an issue and I also think this is why they released firmware version 1.30. 

I am not sure if this firmware can be upgraded from 1.20 to 1.30; the jitter reduction and in particular the  reduction in time required to lock onto the incoming data stream would be definitely a welcome improvement.

 

Re remote, I have the same issue. I checked the remote control PCB traces, IR LED connections, confirmed that the green ceramic resonator (cheap oscillator) works correctly, ensured that the bottom plate does not touch the PCB (because it sits sooo close to the PCB), checked the batteries and battery sockets. It was all good - yet, the remote would most of the time just refuse to work. Then I got a bit worried because I realised that the issue is with the May DAC itself. This was a big disappointment, I must say. 

 

It turns out that I can get the remote to work if I cycle the mains switch at the back of the power supply unit (cycle the stand-by power  supply rails; cycling the power on the DAC front panel does not help....) The remote will then work for a while and then stop again.... so another power cycle will be required.

 

 

 

 

[TA75]

3 hours ago, lpost said:

What is your source? Sounds like it could have too much jitter for the pll to lock sometimes. You can turn off pll to test this theory.

 

I'm using an Innuos Zen mk3, I doubt its that. Maybe I'll try pll off. Does everyone run pll on for better sound?

 

2 hours ago, Extreme_Boky said:

 

May takes a bit of time to lock. I think they know this is an issue and I also think this is why they released firmware version 1.30. 

I am not sure if this firmware can be upgraded from 1.20 to 1.30; the jitter reduction and in particular the  reduction in time required to lock onto the incoming data stream would be definitely a welcome improvement.

 

Re remote, I have the same issue. I checked the remote control PCB traces, IR LED connections, confirmed that the green ceramic resonator (cheap oscillator) works correctly, ensured that the bottom plate does not touch the PCB (because it sits sooo close to the PCB), checked the batteries and battery sockets. It was all good - yet, the remote would most of the time just refuse to work. Then I got a bit worried because I realised that the issue is with the May DAC itself. This was a big disappointment, I must say. 

 

It turns out that I can get the remote to work if I cycle the mains switch at the back of the power supply unit (cycle the stand-by power  supply rails; cycling the power on the DAC front panel does not help....) The remote will then work for a while and then stop again.... so another power cycle will be required.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that, I am actually on v 1.30, I received my May last Monday.

 

[barrows]

14 minutes ago, TA75 said:

I'm using an Innuos Zen mk3, I doubt its that. Maybe I'll try pll off. Does everyone run pll on for better sound?

I would not be so sure without testing...  If it works fine with the PLL off, that is an indication that the source jitter is somewhat high...

[GoldenOne]

3 hours ago, Extreme_Boky said:

 

May takes a bit of time to lock. I think they know this is an issue and I also think this is why they released firmware version 1.30. 

I am not sure if this firmware can be upgraded from 1.20 to 1.30; the jitter reduction and in particular the  reduction in time required to lock onto the incoming data stream would be definitely a welcome improvement.

 

Re remote, I have the same issue. I checked the remote control PCB traces, IR LED connections, confirmed that the green ceramic resonator (cheap oscillator) works correctly, ensured that the bottom plate does not touch the PCB (because it sits sooo close to the PCB), checked the batteries and battery sockets. It was all good - yet, the remote would most of the time just refuse to work. Then I got a bit worried because I realised that the issue is with the May DAC itself. This was a big disappointment, I must say. 

 

It turns out that I can get the remote to work if I cycle the mains switch at the back of the power supply unit (cycle the stand-by power  supply rails; cycling the power on the DAC front panel does not help....) The remote will then work for a while and then stop again.... so another power cycle will be required.

 

 

 

 

The firmware does not change dac behaviour or pll locking time. 

 

The locking time is just part of the accuracy of the pll. Stronger pll takes longer to lock. Just how it is. 

 

If it's an issue then it's recommended to use usb or turn pll off. 

 

1.30 doesn't alter anything 

[TA75]

Anyone using PLL off generally? Or does everyone prefer pll on?

13 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

The firmware does not change dac behaviour or pll locking time. 

 

The locking time is just part of the accuracy of the pll. Stronger pll takes longer to lock. Just how it is. 

 

If it's an issue then it's recommended to use usb or turn pll off. 

 

1.30 doesn't alter anything 

 

I am using usb.

[Extreme_Boky]

6 hours ago, TA75 said:

 

I'm using an Innuos Zen mk3, I doubt its that. Maybe I'll try pll off. Does everyone run pll on for better sound?

 

 

Thanks for that, I am actually on v 1.30, I received my May last Monday.

 

 

I have 2 laptops and NUC11. Each using a USB connection to May. I have never experienced long locking times - they are in fact instantaneous. The best test is to run HQ Player and then change the upsampling settings. Once you click the OK button to accept new settings, the May LCD will (should) display the new setting instantaneously.

By the way, did you manage to get your remote to work by cycling the mains switch at the back of the power supply unit?

 

 

[TA75]

4 hours ago, Extreme_Boky said:

 

I have 2 laptops and NUC11. Each using a USB connection to May. I have never experienced long locking times - they are in fact instantaneous. The best test is to run HQ Player and then change the upsampling settings. Once you click the OK button to accept new settings, the May LCD will (should) display the new setting instantaneously.

By the way, did you manage to get your remote to work by cycling the mains switch at the back of the power supply unit?

 

 

 

I tried it yes, no luck.

[mr. Fancypants]

18 hours ago, lpost said:

Not according to Tim at Kitsune. All levels are built by Jeff Zhu's team of enthusiasts and shipped from China/Hong Kong. Tim does not mod the May.

I see that what I mentioned is completely wrong now.  I sent Kitsune an email asking if the KTE was available for immediate shipping from the USA and got an answer and gave me the incorrect impression of the situation.  

 

Here is the question I asked via email:

 

E-mail
Message:	Hello,   I am planning on purchasing a Holo May DAC KTE edition. On the website it says "in stock", so does this mean immediate shipping from the USA, or is it shipped from somewhere overseas?

 

The response:

 

Sorry For any confusion. We try to explain this on the site. But it means we have components in stock and accepting the orders. Simply put we are building these Constantly and don’t have any inventory that sits on shelves. It’s all sold. We are still hiring more help to assist in production but sales are still increasing faster. The “in stock” just controls how many units we sell in case we are low on components we limit the sales or if we are out of components then the dac is out stock.

We usually average 4week production and have been up to 8-9weeks at times. But currently we are at about 5week production time if you were to place your order today. And ship time is about 4-5days.

Hope this clarifies things.

[Extreme_Boky]

14 hours ago, TA75 said:

 

I tried it yes, no luck.

I suppose you confirmed the button batteries are inside the remote? Inserted the right way around? My remote arrived without the batteries due to flight safety regulations.

[lpost]

Sorry you guys are having issues with your remotes. I haven't used mine except to check that it works months ago. May has been powered on for a few weeks straight and I just checked and the remote is working as normal. Mine shipped with batteries despite saying it would not.

 

I'm really liking DSD now after a couple hundred hours play time through that path. It was way too soft and nice early on but I'm coming to appreciate DSD256 and 5EC modulator.

[Quadman]

My remote works just fine, I use it regularly for display on or off and muting. 

 

I got a new 3060 video card and can now do DSD1024 with the lightest filters, DSD512 with all but sinc Mx and sinc L and of course all PCM combos, PCM 1/4/1.5 with Mx or L is also very nice.  Everything sounds great, High DSD is to me, closer to great analog playback.  DSD1024 is another notch more transparent than 512.  I need more time listening to 1024 to really decide on its merits.  Still straight NOS with the native stream on my HDD, Tidal or Qobuz is very engaging and I have gone entire evenings (7 hours) listening to just that and not missing DSD512 or 1024.  Everything and every way to listen is fantastic with this dac. 

 

My buddy with his $1 mill system has got 300+ hours on his may and is just giddy about its sound.  Most dynamic dac he's had, best bass, widest and deepest sound stage and a you are there palpable presence.  He's owned a lot of expensive dacs and the May is his favorite.

[lpost]

1 hour ago, Quadman said:

I got a new 3060 video card and can now do DSD1024 with the lightest filters

 

What cpu and motherboard? Have you measured the total watts while cranking away on DSD1024?