HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[TA75]

13 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

I use USB myself

 

Have you experimented with different USB cables on the May? I am waiting for a KTE, hopefully on Friday. I currently have an AQ Diamond usb cable and thinking of upgrading.

[GoldenOne]

Just now, TA75 said:

 

Have you experimented with different USB cables on the May? I am waiting for a KTE, hopefully on Friday. I currently have an AQ Diamond usb cable and thinking of upgrading.

I've not found them to make a shred of difference on the may. I currently have the curious usb, AQ carbon and a couple others.
Much better places to spend the money

[Hiker]

54 minutes ago, TA75 said:

 

Have you experimented with different USB cables on the May? I am waiting for a KTE, hopefully on Friday. I currently have an AQ Diamond usb cable and thinking of upgrading.

I’ve never tried Audio Quest wire though I have noticed a marked difference with others I’ve tried .  Could be of the servers USB board being directly clocked from a dedicated clock board both being independently powered and now with the May KTE dac I much prefer a neutral sounding USB cable that doesn’t add or subtract anything from this tiny fragile signal getting to the dac unmolested .Im using Sablon Audio USB cable I first noticed when switching to another brand of USB cable , a very popular brand then moving to the Sablon cable I noticed with well recorded vocals timbre and tone of well recorded vocals are so very much more pleasing to my ears with a much more realistic presence , Switching to the other cable takes this away for what ever reason.

[Johndubya]

Tim Conner from Kitsune is pretty enthusiastic about the high end Intona USB cable. It's only around $600. You should give it a try. As for me, my Kitsune May only has 400 hours of break in. I'll stick with my Wireworld platinum 7 USB for now.  

[MichaelHiFi]

1 hour ago, Hiker said:

I’ve never tried Audio Quest wire though I have noticed a marked difference with others I’ve tried .  Could be of the servers USB board being directly clocked from a dedicated clock board both being independently powered and now with the May KTE dac I much prefer a neutral sounding USB cable that doesn’t add or subtract anything from this tiny fragile signal getting to the dac unmolested .Im using Sablon Audio USB cable I first noticed when switching to another brand of USB cable , a very popular brand then moving to the Sablon cable I noticed with well recorded vocals timbre and tone of well recorded vocals are so very much more pleasing to my ears with a much more realistic presence , Switching to the other cable takes this away for what ever reason.

 

2 hours ago, TA75 said:

 

Have you experimented with different USB cables on the May? I am waiting for a KTE, hopefully on Friday. I currently have an AQ Diamond usb cable and thinking of upgrading.

I was thinking of upgrading to the Audioquest diamond :)

[Hiker]

27 minutes ago, MichaelHiFi said:

 

I was thinking of upgrading to the Audioquest diamond :)

Well if you have ever experienced differences with switching signal cables in the past and or present please share ...

[fds]

2 hours ago, Hiker said:

I currently have an AQ Diamond usb cable and thinking of upgrading.

Here some experience with the Sablon 2020 USB vs. the AQ Diamond USB. I do have both. Recently I got an Innuos Phoenix for testing. This required me to bring back my older AQ Diamond USB as a 2nd USB cable in addition to the Sablon 2020 USB. The improvements the Phoenix brought where positive but a bit of give and take. In fact, I had missed the openess and flow that I had without the Phoenix, i.e., when directly connecting my T+A DAC8DSD to the OpticalRendu with the Sablon 2020 USB cable. However, the net effect of the Phoenix was still a positive one. Also I had high hopes that the missing openess was due to the AQ Diamond USB and that everything will be well once a 2nd Sablong 2020 USB will be here. Thus, I kept the Phoenix and ordered the 2nd Sablon 2020 USB cable. Yesterday then I had the first listening test with now with the Phoenix sandwitched between two Sablon 2020 USB cables ... and BINGO back was the openess that allowed to hear the ambience etc. ... and this was with one of the Sablon cables being fresh and not being burned in yet. This experience showed me clearly that (1) the Sablon is an amazing USB cable and as such an essential element to my current SQ nirvana and that (2) the Phoenix does not take away any openess but does only good things here. Still very happy and so amazed with my last listening session yesterday night ... It is so amazing to experience the wonderful content already sitting on many simple redbook CDs (not even SACD, other high rate DSD or high res which will be even better most likely). Also it is a pitty that so much effort is required to really make it appear in the listening room ... and already a single non-optimal element such as my old AQ Diamond USB can hold back a substantial amount of that magic at least in my system.

[mrkoven]

AQ makes great interconnects and power cables, but their digital cables are mediocre from my experience.

personally shunyata sigma is the best usb cable i've used. noticeably better than most boutique USB cables from sablon, FTA, curious, etc

[Hiker]

27 minutes ago, mrkoven said:

AQ makes great interconnects and power cables, but their digital cables are mediocre from my experience.

personally shunyata sigma is the best usb cable i've used. noticeably better than most boutique USB cables from sablon, FTA, curious, etc

Did you actually own any of the other cables you didn’t actually say you did . If you did compare those other USB cables what did they not do for you in your system compared to this very expensive USB cable from Shunyata ? Thank you 

[mrkoven]

21 minutes ago, Hiker said:

Did you actually own any of the other cables you didn’t actually say you did . If you did compare those other USB cables what did they not do for you in your system compared to this very expensive USB cable from Shunyata ? Thank you 

 

i did have all those cables. last year started with a supra USB for ~$50. then curious -> aq diamond -> sablon -> FTA callisto. and now have the sigma. i got the May after the sigma so i cant speak to any differences on the May. but i tested most of the cables on my prior DAC (bricasti m1se). the sigma gave my ears the biggest improvement stage depth and overall clarity/refinement. it just sounded crisper and more 3d than all the previous cables i tried.  FTA would be my second favorite, edging out sablon. But the gap between sigma > FTA is bigger than FTA > sablon. AQ diamond was disappointing, i didnt think it sounded any better than the $50 supra USB.

[sledwards]

55 minutes ago, mrkoven said:

 

i did have all those cables. last year started with a supra USB for ~$50. then curious -> aq diamond -> sablon -> FTA callisto. and now have the sigma. i got the May after the sigma so i cant speak to any differences on the May. 

Any chance that you still have any of those cables around, maybe the Supra? Sure would like your impressions between it and something that costs half the price of the May.

[fds]

1 hour ago, mrkoven said:

AQ diamond was disappointing, i didnt think it sounded any better than the $50 supra USB.

Hm I have both and I think that the AQ diamond is much, much better than the SUPRA. I have also a Light Harmonic Lightspeed to which the AQ diamond is comparable. The Lightspeed is more extended while the Diamond is more natural with voices. Actually I had used the AQ diamond for many years and I had liked what it did. The Sablon is clearly in a different league though. Still surprising to me that a USB cable can make such a profound difference. Interesting to hear that the sigma is even better for which one pays about 3-4 times the price of the Sablon.

 

WRT the Mays USB input, I am also wondering whether there is actually someone out there using the May with an Innuous Phoenix. If so, can you maybe report on the differnce the Phoenix makes? Or is the USB card of the May so great that a Phoenix will have not effect?

[mrkoven]

33 minutes ago, sledwards said:

Any chance that you still have any of those cables around, maybe the Supra? Sure would like your impressions between it and something that costs half the price of the May.

 

i only have the sigma now. but its possible that with the May's USB, the effect (and therefore cost) of the sigma is ultimately wasted. 

since the supra is inexpensive, i may buy another one to test at some point. it wasn't the case w/ the bricasti as the sigma really lifted the SQ for me. but i'd be happy to sell the sigma and put that money elsewhere in the system if the May's USB is so good that it negates higher end cables.  

 

16 minutes ago, fds said:

Hm I have both and I think that the AQ diamond is much, much better than the SUPRA. I have also a Light Harmonic Lightspeed to which the AQ diamond is comparable. The Lightspeed is more extended while the Diamond is more natural with voices. Actually I had used the AQ diamond for many years and I had liked what it did. The Sablon is clearly in a different league though. Still surprising to me that a USB cable can make such a profound difference. Interesting to hear that the sigma is even better for which one pays about 3-4 times the price of the Sablon.

 

yes agree sablon was better than diamond for me too. and i also went into digital cables highly skeptical and dismissive. but my view has changed. maybe its placebo or maybe not. who knows. part of the fun in audio is trying tweaks first hand. 

[Hiker]

No single product will make everyone happy in every possible way , choosing ones own preferences my ears your ears your choice of music so on and so forth . 
 

Speaking to the USB section of the May KTE dac I think it goes a long way at preserving what it is being fed upstream of the dac and of course the better the recording the more you are going to enjoy your favourite music .
 

After all the history behind this hobby was the discovery of playback sound quality of recordings themselves from the 1950s and 60s as playback components advanced giving birth to and the pursuit of collecting your favourite music and of course the playback components themselves ,

[TA75]

Such nice USB cable talk. I have actually exchanged a few emails over the last week with Mark at Sablon. Quite a few people over at Whatsbestforum have sold their Shunyata Sigmas and kept the Sablon. People with "unlimited" resources for these cables. I'm going to put in an order for one.

20 hours ago, MichaelHiFi said:

 

I was thinking of upgrading to the Audioquest diamond :)

 

I can sell you mine for $550. Its a great cable, compared to the Audioquest Forest, I used to have, its miles ahead. In perfect condition, about 1.5 years old. Let me know!

 

Can't wait to hear the May, didn't have a chance to audition in my system. Only heard the Spring KTE at a dealer's system and really liked it. Hope there is synergy with my t+a pa3100 and sopra 2..! Should be getting it by Friday 🤪

[BrownMagic]

23 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

23 hours ago, TA75 said:

 

I've not found them to make a shred of difference on the may. I currently have the curious usb, AQ carbon and a couple others.
Much better places to spend the money

That’s very sensible coming from you considering you have all the gear to test these variables objectively. How does May do with noise? Like will an LPS for a transport be less important? Because MAY seems to be this great equaliser. Anything in the chain before the May doesn’t seem to impact the MAY per your findings. Transport and Cables before the may don’t make any difference. How about Output? Between RCA vs XLR. 

[GoldenOne]

5 minutes ago, BrownMagic said:

That’s very sensible coming from you considering you have all the gear to test these variables objectively. How does May do with noise? Like will an LPS for a transport be less important? Because MAY seems to be this great equaliser. Anything in the chain before the May doesn’t seem to impact the MAY per your findings. Transport and Cables before the may don’t make any difference. How about Output? Between RCA vs XLR. 

The may has full galvanic isolation on the USB input (full, not just 5v/gnd lines like some dacs) . Meaning there is actually no electrical connection between the USB and the dac itself. So noise from the source shouldn't have any effect whatsoever. 

 

XLR and rca outputs do sound slightly different (though they measure slightly different too). 

[TA75]

2 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

XLR and rca outputs do sound slightly different (though they measure slightly different too). 

 

XLRs sounding better right? My amp is a dual mono design too, I'm thinking that balanced is the way to go.

[GoldenOne]

Just now, TA75 said:

 

XLRs sounding better right? My amp is a dual mono design too, I'm thinking that balanced is the way to go.

Yeah the Balanced definitely sounds better. Though they aren't too far off eachother. 

 

Some dacs have a noticeably poorer se output whereas the may is really close to its nice and flexible in that regard. 

But definitely go balanced if you can

[TA75]

2 minutes ago, GoldenOne said:

Yeah the Balanced definitely sounds better. Though they aren't too far off eachother. 

 

Some dacs have a noticeably poorer se output whereas the may is really close to its nice and flexible in that regard. 

But definitely go balanced if you can

 

Thanks for the heads up. I'm waiting for your video review on your channel!

[BrownMagic]

1 hour ago, GoldenOne said:

Some dacs have a noticeably poorer se output whereas the may is really close to its nice and flexible in that regard. 

For example on my Pontus, the XLR is louder than the SE. This was confirmed with Denafrips. 

[GoldenOne]

12 minutes ago, BrownMagic said:

For example on my Pontus, the XLR is louder than the SE. This was confirmed with Denafrips. 

That will be the case for almost all DACs.
Standard voltage per line is 2v

So for SE you have 2v positive, and 0v gnd. So 2v signal
For XLR you have +2v positive, -2v negative. So a 4v difference. (Differential signal)

XLR will therefore be 6dB louder than SE in almost all products.

The thing is that most of the time, products just use half the balanced output to feed the SE output. It's rare that a product actually has a separate output stage for the SE.
And this means that if you use XLR and SE outputs at the same time you actually lose the benefit of balanced common-mode-noise-rejection.

Additionally with some dacs such as the denafrips ones you can end up with some impedance matching issues due to the extremely high output impedance of denafrips dacs (Due to them not actually having an output buffer stage at all)

[John Hughes]

I also got the Kitsune premium usb cable.  It's really excellent as well. 

[barrows]

5 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

XLR will therefore be 6dB louder than SE in almost all products.

Just to note, the above will not be true for any DAC which implements its single ended outputs in the optimum fashion.  Pretty much all DAC chips, and all of the properly implemented discrete DACs (talking just about the DAC conversion section now) have differential output (balanced).  (Let's assume current output DAC here) then that output goes to a balanced I/V stage, followed by a balanced analog output stage to drive the output.  Dacs where the single ended output is half the voltage of the balanced output, just take half of the signal and leave the other half behind-this is a lazy and cheap way to produce the single ended output, which does not take advantage of the balanced signal coming out of the conversion stage, and gives up 6 dB of signal to noise ratio in the process, as well as having the likelihood of picking up more noise and adding it to the single ended output signal.

The proper way to achieve a single ended output in a balanced DAC environment is to use the entire balanced signal, and pass it through a balanced to single ended conversion stage (could be, for example, a proper instrumentation amplifier circuit)-this approach sums the two signal halves, and allows for any desirable output voltage, as well as retains the 6 dB higher S/N ration and the noise rejection of the balanced circuitry.  Most well engineered DACs use this approach to produce their single ended outputs, and if the May has similar voltage at the balanced and single ended outputs, it is almost certainly using this approach.   

[BrownMagic]

13 hours ago, barrows said:

Most well engineered DACs use this approach to produce their single ended outputs

Would you be able to list a few that you are aware of that use this approach?