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HOLO Audio MAY DAC


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Honestly the may usb is so good, and has galvanic isolation built in anyway, that I've found that many usb cleanup options make no difference to it. (subjectively or objectively) Even though they do make a difference on other dacs. 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, ted_b said:

I anyone else (who is using Holo May with Windows) getting high frequency distortion (fatigue after a couple songs) on 32fs?  In a PM with Leung (Hols) he also reports this.  I realize it could be my mobo USB port but with 30.14 and 16fs that same port delivers nice music.  What I haven't tested (and will tonight) is that mobo USB port and 16fs with both firmwares.  I am also gonna listen via Jussi's NAA image once I get my NUC back from lmitche (due here tmrw night). 

I did but it's cause my pc is amd so it just would not work properly. Even if it did play it didn't sound right. 

 

My Intel laptop worked absolutely fine though. 

 

Im using a streamer now though. But honestly the difference between 16x and 32x is sooo small. Nowhere near as big as 8x to 16x, that I just don't bother. It's a super nice feature to have but I'd prioritise a cleaner/better source/ddc/streamer rather than 32x upsampling. 

 

If you really want 32x though. You can get an Intel compute stick for ~£80 used and use that as an HQP NAA and that'll work

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, MrDerrick said:

Hello,

 

I am enjoying the KTE May immensely, currently at 768/20 via HQPlayer in NOS mode and PLL off.

I read through all the posts on the KTE May and decided it was time to attempt 1.5mhz.

 

USB Holo Contol Panel is v5.0.0

v30.12 is installed

 

The May display shows locked on 1.4/1.5 mhz files, but what is playing is unlistenable.

My renderer is a Sonore SignatureRendu SE coupled with a SGC STi9 optical connected straight via usb to the May.

 

Reading through the "Taking the Terminator to 11" article I saw that Chris C had no problem with the SigRendu SE and 1.5mhz to the Terminator.

 

Currently I am dead in the water with 1.4/1.5 mhz 20 bit files.

I switched back and forth between 30.12 and 30.14, the ASIO buffer was set to 512, I tried 1024 and 2048 with no improvement.

I also tried setting the usb format to 16 bits, also no help.

 

I am running HQPlayer embedded on the STi9 version 4.22.3 .

 

768/20 bit does sound very good, if all else fails, I can live with it!

 

Any thoughts?

 

Robert

 

 

It's been discussed at length in the HQP thread (and in here too I think) but basically. If you want 1.5mhz, you need an intel chipset.

There are some streamers and third party USB 'hifi' cards that may or may not work. But it is inconsistent at best.

If you have an intel PC, then you can just play and go.
But any AMD machine, PCIe hifi card, raspberry pi, sonore, sotm sms200, anything not intel, it might not work at all. It might play but at the wrong speed, it might play but be really glitchy and awful, and I even had it once where it "worked" but it just sounded thin and weird.
I've even got two otherwise identical raspberry pis, same USB controller, software and everything, but one sometimes works sometimes doesn't, and the other never works.

Unfortunately the simple answer is that if you want 1.5mhz you'll need to get something intel. The cheapest/smallest device would be an intel compute stick. Can just put NAA on that and use it as your streamer and you're good to go.
Could also look at a NUC to run as both a roon server and 1.5mhz NAA.

OR: Stick to 768khz. There really is almost no perceivable difference between 768khz and 1.5mhz

I've got the may and a denafrips ares 2 here atm. May will play 1.5mhz from the various devices I have but won't sound correct unless it's an intel machine.
Ares 2 will sometimes do the same thing but most of the time just straight up won't play 1.5mhz at all.

Additionally: Would 100% recommend turning the PLL on. There's no reason not to have it on really and you're just potentially missing out on extra performance

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, MrDerrick said:

Thanks for the suggestion Chris, but no go.

 

GoldenOne, the devil is always in the details and I missed the intel chipset requirement, thanks for the clarification.

I will try PLL on again, I thought there was a slight edge with it off though.

Unrelated to my original post, what does the "Wildism Edition" expand on, I assume that it is some kind of mod that they perform?

 

I will have to look into the intel compute stick, hopefully the learning curve will not cause my head to explode.

 

Happy listening everyone!

 

Robert

The compute stick is basically a regular Windows pc but in the size of a large USB stick. It's a neat little device. 

 

So you'd just open up windows, install hqplayer naa and then connect the dac to it and you're good to go. 

 

Wildism is the Asia distributor for holo. (Kitsune being the US distributor). Just means I got it from them. 

 

Im not sure what the mods they do on the may are atm but the spring 2 they had the normal lvl 1/2/3 and what was effectively level 4 called 'wild edition extreme". Kitsune does kitsune tuned edition. Wildism does the wild extreme edition. 

 

1.100va Pure Silver Transformer

2.Jensen Ceramic Tube Copper Foil Oil Cap

3.Xsymphony Pure Silver Litz Wire

-Double Run IEC to AC board

-Single Run AC board to Main Board

4.take out all plastic plugs

5.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap 

  10000uf 25v x2 

6. Ground Filter

7.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap  

  2200uf 16v x4 

8.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap 

  10uf 16v x4

9.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap 

  5uf 16v x4

10.Audionote Trans-280 Digital Isolation Transformer

 

SmartSelect_20210510-001259_Chrome.thumb.jpg.53e10fd7591a25cfbc1ad482e60480c4.jpg

 

Basically anything that could be done to the max they did. 

I don't know if they have this one for the may or not yet. At the time I ordered my may audionote was having supply issues so I just got the highest that was available as I didn't really want to wait potentially several months. Plus he said I can just send it back in to upgrade later if I wanted to anyway. Sounds amazing and I also get the same or better measurements than the measurements others have done on the kte model so I'm a very happy buyer :) 

 

 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Just now, BrownMagic said:

Thanks a lot. That really helps. Just to clarify, if PLL is not there then Coax would be the superior input. So my current transport is a Primare NP5 which does not have a USB. It only has Coax, so I am better of using the Coax knowing that I have the best input. 

A PLL is a method of attenuating Jitter.

The May PLL is currently the most powerful PLL in any dac you can get, and it will turn even crappy sources into practically perfect ones.

Without a PLL, you're reliant on the quality of your source. So with the spring, whether USB is better than coax will depend on the quality of the spring's USB implementation and the quality of the transport being used. It could be one way or the other

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 minute ago, BrownMagic said:

Thanks a lot for simplifying this. PLL applies to the whole DAC and not just an input am I right? So irrespective of which input you use on the May, it will apply PLL and clean the incoming signal and remove the jitter. 

PLL applies to the digital inputs.
It's active on all inputs including I2S. So with PLL on, no matter which input/source you use, it should end up basically "perfect".

To be clear though. There are good and bad PLLs. Lots of other DACs will have a PLL which will attenuate jitter a little bit. But it's because the may's PLL is so ridiculously good that you can use any source and have it come out basically perfect.

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Tim from kitsune said that the pll was active when using the USB. I'm not entirely sure if that's the case though for two reasons:

 

1) the jitter performance doesn't change at all regardless of whether pll is on or off

 

2) there is 0 locking time with usb even with pll on

 

 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi @GoldenOne It would be really cool to keep measurements of this DAC over time. The big issue that manufacturers, who don't offer R2R DACs, bring up is that R2R DACs can lose accuracy over time because of all the resistors. I have no idea how big of a deal this is, how much time we are talking about, or if this is still an issue. 

I'd be happy to do that. 

Fwiw this dac is over a year old and measures exactly the same as when I got it. 

 

Im not sure why the performance would change over time though cause afaik resistors don't degrade over time? (unless you're running it above its rated power spec which wouldn't be the case here cause everything is line level at most) 

 

The only thing I'd be concerned about degrading I think would be the capacitors but then that's the same for just about any product regardless of design. 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Also just thought I'd post here in regards to USB sources for 1.536mhz for the may.

I was previously using an SMS200 Ultra, but couldn't do 1.536mhz from HQPlayer with it.
You have to use an intel device in order to reliably get 1.536mhz working. (Some other PCIe cards work on and off but intel is the only thing that works reliably).

This limits you to not massively ideal devices in terms of your source. I bought a NUC as I could then run a roon core on it, and also use it as a source for the may.

BUT, if you're wanting a really good USB source that DOES do 1.536mhz. Get an intel machine (cheapest options are the intel compute stick or one of the mini-PC options on amazon for ~£100 with the atom x5 cpu) and an ifi iGalvanic 3.0. This provides full galvanic isolation, an output noise floor of <5uV and also does reclocking etc.

It's 'transparent' from a digital perspective. Meaning the system does not see it as a USB hub or controller. It looks to the PC like a cable pretty much. And I can confirm that 1.536mhz is working flawlessly with NUC -> ifi iGalvanic -> May

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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6 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Golden One, you said the above quote last week, but then today said (in a great post about USB sources doing 1.5Mhz PCM)

 

What is the purpose of the iGalvanic if the May USB is already there? 

 

Also, I assume those intel compute sticks or Intel NUCs would run Linux NAA as opposed to Windows NAA (I ask cuz I found Windows has high frequency hash at 32fs and 20 bit; 18 bit seems to tame it). 

Honestly, nothing but nervosa :P

I don't think there is a difference but I wasn't using the Igalvanic anyway and figured some people may be looking for a 'just in case' solution. 

 

The nuc/compute stick can run whatever you like in terms of os. If you're getting high frequency hash though that might be your machine. I have that on my Amd pc but the Intel machine is perfect. 

 

(also double check you've got the latest drivers installed, are using asio, and the windows volume isn't anything below 100%) 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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16 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Thx.  Your description of your new NUC sounds like you are using it as BOTH a roon core and an NAA.  Is this at the same time (NUC -> HQPlayer server -> NUC -> May), or can be used either (the same time thing has me baffled :)  ). ?

 

 

 

 

The NUC is just a small PC so it can be configured in any way the user likes.

Personally I have it running windows, which then has the roon core and HQP NAA installed.
The HQP processing is actually being done on my main PC both because it's much more powerful and also cause then it's easier to quickly change settings.

So right now the chain looks like:

Roon (NUC) -> HQPlayer (Main PC) -> HQPlayer NAA (NUC) -> ifi iGalvanic -> Holo May

I'm sure the NUC would be able to handle PCM upsampling to 1.536mhz as it's one of the more powerful ones (8th gen i7 4core 8thread). But there's not really a need to do so.
 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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13 minutes ago, Toni-Mang said:

That is a good discussion, maybe a DDC or an islolator can add an additional noise performance to the Titanis section...(the section befor the isolated handover to the Dac)...as mentioned above PLL should handle the jitter...

In my case the DI20HE sounded different compared to a direct connection via USB. I am using a noisy and old Laptop with Jriver. The direct USB connection is wider in soundstage, but has not the dephts as the di20he via I2S...thats why i think about a galvanic isolator to compare...maybe the DI is obsolete than...

It could potentially. Even when connected to my gaming PC which is probably the worst possible source one could choose there was no detectable reduction of performance at all. So it seems the internal galvanic isolation is fine.
BUT, when spending up to $5k on a dac, an extra $300 for an iGalvanic perhaps isn't really a big worry regardless of whether it helps or not.

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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28 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It comes down to a combination of chipset and drivers. Using Windows on CAPS 20.1 as an endpoint, I couldn't get 32fs working. Switching to Linux NAA image, it worked flawlessly. Intel hardware didn't change, only software changed. 

It seems to be super hit or miss and a combination of factors.

On the may, raspberry pi 4 with NAA image: Music plays fine, but at half speed
With ropieee or other image, music plays at regular speed but sounds glitchy and awful

I also have two raspberry pi 4's which are seemingly identical. Same spec, same USB controller, and yet they behave differently when trying to play 1.536mhz. And my friend has the same pi which DOES do 1.536mhz

On the Ares 2 I simply couldn't get 1.536mhz to play at all on anything other than the intel machine. 
So I'm not sure what the culprit is. Some people have managed to get 1.536mhz working fine on some pcie hifi cards and others even with the same card had no luck.

So it seems that whilst intel isn't "required" per se, it's basically the only way to guarantee that you won't be pulling your hair out :P
It's unfortunate as I'd really have liked to keep using my sms200 ultra :(

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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  • 2 weeks later...
9 hours ago, Hiker said:

GoldenOne may I ask your go to play list for evaluating components, i may have missed that information here and your YouTube channel anyway I very much appreciate and enjoy your work ! 

I don't typically have a playlist for testing as such. I just have a lot of songs that I'm fairly familiar with and will pick a few depending on mood etc.

BUT, a few that I'll ALWAYS play:
Motherboard - Daft Punk
Last Call - Plini
Breathe - Skinny Living
Bitch - Sir Woman
Merry go round of life - Grissini Project

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 minute ago, BrownMagic said:

Are KTE and Wildism Level 3 the same mods? 

L3 and KTE were the same for spring 2 (and then wildism extreme edition was effectively 'level 4') but idk about the May. You'd need to double check with wildism.

Wildism doesn't sell KTE though, that's a kitsune thing. Their L3 is just called L3 but then they have WEE/L4 ontop instead. Though I don't think they've done a L4 for the may yet

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 minute ago, BrownMagic said:

Thanks. Yes, I’m aware that KTE is Kitsune’s mod. I checked with Jo and he mentioned that Wildism only have level 3 which possibly is the equivalent to KTE. 

Ah yeah that'll be exactly the same, just probably with no Fox logo :P
L1/L2/L3 are all done straight in the factory now, they're no longer mods done at the distributors so it'll almost certainly be identical

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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8 minutes ago, BrownMagic said:

That’s great to know. Thanks for this. We are looking forward to your review. Very keen to know which is the best input for the may. Especially with the Pi2AES since it has both AES and I2S

With PLL off the differences between inputs are about the same as on any other dac. 

But with PLL on, honestly they're soooooo similar regardless of source that I absolutely cannot pick any out in a blind test, whereas I can with PLL off.

Personally I'd go either I2S if you have a good source like pi2aes, or USB given as then you have no PLL Locking time, and the May L2/L3 USB module is crazy good. Also then you can do 1.536mhz from HQPlayer

I use USB myself

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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5 minutes ago, BrownMagic said:


That’s very sensible coming from you considering you have all the gear to test these variables objectively. How does May do with noise? Like will an LPS for a transport be less important? Because MAY seems to be this great equaliser. Anything in the chain before the May doesn’t seem to impact the MAY per your findings. Transport and Cables before the may don’t make any difference. How about Output? Between RCA vs XLR. 

The may has full galvanic isolation on the USB input (full, not just 5v/gnd lines like some dacs) . Meaning there is actually no electrical connection between the USB and the dac itself. So noise from the source shouldn't have any effect whatsoever. 

 

XLR and rca outputs do sound slightly different (though they measure slightly different too). 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Just now, TA75 said:

 

XLRs sounding better right? My amp is a dual mono design too, I'm thinking that balanced is the way to go.

Yeah the Balanced definitely sounds better. Though they aren't too far off eachother. 

 

Some dacs have a noticeably poorer se output whereas the may is really close to its nice and flexible in that regard. 

But definitely go balanced if you can

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, BrownMagic said:


The galvanic isolation is only for the USB or all digital inputs like Coax? Thanks much. 

Just had a look inside, seems like it does indeed also have galvanic isolation on the AES/Coax/BNC inputs.
There is a Pulse electronics PE-65612NL isolation transformer just before the AKM SPDIF/AES receiver chip. So yep, seems it does!
I didn't realise that but it's certainly nice to know!

It's not 100% certain that this isn't just for the AES but not SPDIF etc, but if it's got this one (and everything else in the may that has been over-engineered as far as possible :P) then I can't imagine the other inputs would be left not isolated.
20210529_184137.thumb.jpg.ef1d5bb364e5a5528a214dd1233f3713.jpg
 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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