HOLO Audio MAY DAC

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Did you grab the one on Usaudiomart for just a couple hours yesterday?

 

I've got 110 hours playtime on my KTE and the treble has become quite harsh bordering on unlistenable. Did anyone else experience a marked bad period like this during break in?

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Nope, I don't have any ADC or other measurement tools.

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1 hour ago, Quadman said:

streaming DSD512 from HQ Player.

Be sure to try 768k PCM and 1.5M if your source will do it. I find DSD to be quite rolled off with the May compared to the same track PCM.

 

1.5M at 16 bits sounded a little less fleshed out to me preferring 768k at 20 bits a fair bit more. I believe this is solely based on the USB port being used.

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LNS15 in both cases. I asked the US distributor, Tim at Kitsune, and said he's experienced the same with some USB ports feeding the May dac. He suggested disabling PLL circuit in the May dac, this made no difference for me. The sound is thinner and a bit less warm using 1.5M vs 768k.

 

I experienced this thinner sound with both the motherboard ports and two Asmedia boards with different chipsets. All sync at 1.5M but don't sound as good. Everything else the same.

 

I also tried 1.5M/20 with all the various USB ports and none would play smoothly. Sound would dropout every 1/2 second or so. No pops or cracks just a dropout with no sound then it would be back. Setting to 16 bit allowed music to play without these 'dropouts'.

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I think I’ll just run NOS full path for a while and remove the HQPe alterations. The dac is still changing so it’s chasing a ever changing beast at this point.

 

like diavolo said, it sounds fine without upsample and shapers.

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3 hours ago, Quadman said:

Hey @Iceaero and @Extreme_Boky did you roll back your firmware from 30.14 which I believe comes installed on the May dac's and is unable to do DSD1024 or PCM 1.536Mhz to version 30.12 which does handle those sampling frequencies?  If so how did you do that? I downloaded the driver and firmware package found on the spring 2 page and the directions at a glance seem a bit awkward.

Connect a Windows 10 machine to the May USB. Run the HoloAudio_v5.0.0_2020-12-15_setup.exe to install ASIO driver and programs. Go to program folder for 30.12 or 30.14 respectively. Run holousbaudioDfu.exe. It's pretty self-explanatory from there and only takes a few seconds to update/switch fw.

 

I upgraded to 30.12 for 1.5M support a few days ago. I found that 30.12 worked fine for 768k/20bit however, this morning I went back to .14 as my motherboard USB ports sound absolutely terrible at 1.5M/20 and still not quite right at 1.5M/16. I suspect this is all dependent on your particular USB output et al.

 

 

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Yep, I understand this to be the case too and probably why they ship with the more compatible 30.14 version. I simply wanted to try 1.5M to see if it would play at all.

 

I have an ASRock x370 Pro Gaming board with AMD 1700x I believe. It's a few years old now. The 3.1 Gen 2 port works, the other 4 3.0 ports do not sync at all.

 

I'll go back to I2S in a few days to have a listen but it's limited to 192PCM but I'm not finding HQPe to be a HUGE advantage over NOS all the way. Sure, it's a little better but not if my USB port is making a mess of it.

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On 12/11/2020 at 5:20 PM, GoldenOne said:

I don't believe there is no. Sorry, probably could have worded that post better. 

 

What I meant is that the pll puts basically any digital source on equal footing with the may. Be it an expensive streamer or basic optical from my pc. 

 

USB sounds the same regardless of if the pll is on or not. 

Tim tells me emphatically that the PLL is used with USB and the May USB runs in 'master' mode.

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1 minute ago, Diavolo said:

This is a typical way to remove jitter from USB these days.  Benchmark was using PLL to get jitter <-50ps 20 years ago.  It's always been centered around usb to my knowledge, but I'm not an expert. 

It's just contrary to what Jussi stated: There shouldn't be any PLL involved when using asynchronous USB....

 

I have no idea. I don't hear any difference with it on or off and it doesn't change the locking times for better or worse for me using USB.

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Just now, Extreme_Boky said:

I can hear the difference with PLL ON, USB input. The sound is more spacious. Frequency extremes are more pronounced, they go higher and deeper. I like it better:)

 

My May is a long way from 500+ hours so I'm not judging it too harshly yet though I did have a day or two that was pretty rough in the high frequencies.

 

What USB output are you using? When I try 1.5M/16 I get a very strained etched sound. Completely different than using the same USB port at 768K/20.

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3 minutes ago, Extreme_Boky said:

I can hear the difference with PLL ON, USB input. The sound is more spacious. Frequency extremes are more pronounced, they go higher and deeper. I like it better:)

 

My May is a long way from 500+ hours so I'm not judging it too harshly yet though I did have a day or two that was pretty rough in the high frequencies.

 

What USB output are you using? When I try 1.5M/16 I get a very strained etched sound. 1.5M/20 is unlistenable and drops out. Completely different than using the same USB port at 768K/20.

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It's my source. Just swapped from AMD to a Intel desktop machine 1.5M/20 no sweat and sounds good. Time to troubleshoot.

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My AMD with good linear power supplies sounds better with motherboard ports at 768/20 than mini desktop Dell running either NAA or Window Server 2019 Roon Bridge at either 768/20 or 1.5M/20, no big surprise. At least the Intel plays at 1.5M/20 with NAA and doesn't sound horrible. Roon is limited  to 768 but I didn't even try upsampling with it as it's a non-starter for me compared to HQPe/NAA.

 

I've got 3 inexpensive cards on the way based on 3142, 2142 and 1142 Asmedia chipsets to test. 

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Does this mean the USB output clock is irrelevant? Could it be something other than 20Mhz and the signal still be received and clocked by the DAC?

 

I'm asking legitimately to learn as I don't know how asynchronous USB is intended to work.

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13 minutes ago, Diavolo said:

Kneel before lord Miska... Nope 😁 

Harsh dude. Clearly there is some history between you and Jussi but it's probably not appropriate to spread on public forums.

 

He's been most helpful and patient/tolerant with me over the years.

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Fair enough. What does your audio path look like?

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I'm curious, not looking to debate. I'm here to learn, not argue, ever.

 

I use Roon Core on a Windows box to HQPe on a PC to NAA on my endpoint AMD machine and then USB to May. I've tried running Roon Bridge on endpoint and didn't care for the sound compared to HQPe in the path whether upsampled or not. And I'm open to any other config that brings me closer to nirvana and/or less fuss without compromising the SQ.

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How many hours on your May?

 

I’m right in the 200 hours mark and frankly some of it’s been exceptional and some of its been quite difficult. I just turn off the amps and do something else while it burns the hours.

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3 hours ago, scintilla said:

local college jazz station

 

Do they have a internet radio feed?

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12 hours ago, bilboda said:

I saw a terrific review of the May dac. A song is referenced ,The Appeal by The Toadies from the album Heretics

I like Ron. He seems like a genuine person. I've never had to strain to hear the differences between filters or shapers. I was immediately attracted to the sound of Roon into HQPe from day one nearly 4 years ago. I've used PCM almost exclusively as I don't have a PC worthy of very high DSD and really don't want one. I don't like all filters for all music but I'm grateful for all the choices and have a few go to favorites.

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I've now tried 5 'different' Amazon USB host adaptors. 2 were identical with Asmedia 3142, the others were a slightly different implementation of 3142, a 2142 and 1142. All produced the identical 'noise' playing 1536Mhz PCM as my motherboard ports. All sounded identical at 768Khz PCM as the motherboard ports. I've tried each at 16 and 20 bits. 20 definitely sounds worse but 16 is not good.

 

Looks like 705/768k PCM is my motherboards limit regardless. Sounding better and better every day. And yes, Virginia, different filters and noise shapers sound different to me and my non-audiophile wife. Thank you Jussi for such a wonderful and inexpensive product!

 

I'm curious from those that know how USB works, is it the system clock all USB interfaces use that is in common and thus at fault or does each interface have it's own inherent issues passing 1.5Mhz PCM?

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Ok, thanks. Well I've tried just about all the 1 and 2 port cards with Asmedia chips on them. Anyone else find others, PCI-e, to work at 1.5M?

 

Does Intel make PCI-e USB host adaptors? My searches so far have not turned up any.

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Looks like I'll probably part with my AMD server with linear supplies since a bog standard Intel PC from 2017 equals or beats it in SQ and plays 1.5M/20bits without issue to the May. Saves power too! The USB input on the May is something special to not hear any difference between these two classes of computers/power supplies.

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7 hours ago, Extreme_Boky said:

 

...just remembered that HQ Player caters for an on-the-fly phase inversion.... try that as well.

My last DAC had a phase invert on the remote. It was interesting how some tracks behave differently than others. How does one invert on the fly with HQPe?

 

Regarding USB and 90ohms. I've got a Intona USB cable and 7055-C in between source and May further isolating and ensuring 90ohms.

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Phase invert appears to only be in the desktop version not Embedded.