fds Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 15 hours ago, Quadman said: This May was clearly a step up from the T+A, which I had thought was audio Nirvana at DSD512. This is very good news. Many thanks Quadman. At present, also I am basically thinking that the T+A DAC8DSD at DSD512 is audio nirvana ... However, at times, I have the impression that bass transparency/speed could still be a tad better as well as the soundstage depth. I had realized this e.g. in comparisons to my Chord Mojo which however is lacking in other departments such as physical presence. Seems that the May is delivering both great timing as well as physical presence. Great that this can be achieved at a reasonable price. Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers Link to comment
fds Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 @Quadman you are using your DACs not directly connected to power amps right? Did you ever try to bypass your preamp and to use HQP volume control for example? Setting the T+A to fixed output connected directly to power amps with volume controlled in software is where I got best SQ with the DAC8DSD. Would be very interesting to hear how well the May performs in such a setting when fed with DSD512. Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers Link to comment
Popular Post Quadman Posted April 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2021 4 hours ago, fds said: you are using your DACs not directly connected to power amps right? I run a bi-amp system, my bass units are fed from a 250W SS amp and I use a parametric equalizer for the lower frequencies only. My DiAppolitto mid/hi heads are fed by a 18W per channel 211 based SE triode amp. Both amps only accept SE inputs so either I use a splitter at the preamp or if both outputs can be used a balanced to rca adapter. I prefer not to do that. I have a buffered preamp that I made with very high quality parts. It has no remote volume control so I set the T+A at Line out volume and use HQP as digital volume control which works excellent as you know. The Holo is such a step up from the T+A I am sure it would preform excellent here as well, be aware the T+A outputs 2.5V SE and the holo outputs 2.9V SE, double those for balanced out. Stage width and depth, at least in my room, is excellent with the T+A and very close to the holo (my speakers are 8.5' from the rear wall) it is the definition and energy within that stage that is so much more involving with the may over the T+A. It sure shocked me, I love the T+A, it is amazing, it has definitely been bettered by the holo tho. Hiker and fds 1 1 Link to comment
jeti Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 For Holo May connecting to active speakers, would using HQPlayer to control the volume be a good choice? How does this compare with using a pre-amp, say Holo's Serene? Would appreciate any input and suggestions! After all Serene is also expensive. Link to comment
Extreme_Boky Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Well, to start: - you would not have a detrimental effect of contact resistance X 2 (RCA's / XLR's) on sound quality - same applies to one interconnect cable (which you would not have to use).... each cable will have specific capacitance, inductance, resistance and the cable material (copper, silver) would also provide their own coloration - one less HiFi unit to pollute the power outlet Now, here comes the pre-amp in itself: - switches / potentiometers.... still only contacts / wipers / relays, all causing sound degradation - resistors, capacitors, PCB traces... same as above - internal hook-up wiring, PCB design => additional capacitance , inductance, resistance - active elements (transistors / valves); each gain stage will introduce a bandwidth limiting, phase shifts (that will not be the same for the full frequency spectrum, even audio spectrum)... Link to comment
Hiker Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 I will be using a stupendously good preamplifier with my KTE dac , Sparkos Lab Aries , built in Colorado and for 3k it’s a stupid good bargain. Sure that puts in about the same price category as the Serene however the Sparkos Lab has much to offer , transparency in spades including a list of other attributes this preamplifier has. Link to comment
fds Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 18 minutes ago, Hiker said: I will be using a stupendously good preamplifier Indeed, I had tought that my Ayre KX-5 falls into the same category ... and with all other DACs experienced in my system so far it had a crucial role. Nevertheless, using the T+A DAC8DSD direct to power amps with software volume control gave such a wonderful purity to sound that made the great KX-5 clearly superfluous in my system. I would expect the same to hold for the May. barrows 1 Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers Link to comment
Hiker Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Well my previous Rockna dac had a built in volume direct to a pair of Lamm amplifiers , the Sparkos Lab was preferred ,. Link to comment
Toni-Mang Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 similar experience here, first "no preamp is like no preamp", than from different Preamps to Pass (XP-20). Imho good preamps open the Soundstage...and the May can prepair this Job excellent... It is as always a question of personal taste and synergie... Papas Gear... Link to comment
fds Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Toni-Mang said: good preamps open the Soundstage... I had experienced the benefits of a high-end preamp as well. Before that I had hoped so much that no preamp would be better than a preamp. With several DACs in my house, this has clearly not been the case and the preamp ended up being a crucial element in my chain. Also I had been very sceptical to use software volume control and in fact in many of my settings it did not turn out to be convincing. Even more surprised I was to experience how great the HQPlayer volume control is working when using the DAC8DSD directly on the power amps. In fact, being biased from previous experiences, I was very close not to try that setting at all which would have been a big pitty. 2 hours ago, Toni-Mang said: It is as always a question of personal taste and synergie... Often yes ... but not so with the T+A DAC8DSD once fed with DSD512, set to fixed volume output and using HQPlayer volume control: The added sonic purity is clearly evident and amounts to added realism in my opinion. Here adding my preamp added something somewhat artifical ... but of course I have only a very limited hands-on experience with one single high-end preamp. Still with these experiences, one of my first tests with the Holo Audio May would be to see how well it would be working directly connected to power amps when controling volume within HQPlayer. I really would not like to add back a preamp and for me I will pick my next DAC - maybe the Holo Audio May - only if the preamp turns out to be superfluous ... Even when focussing on one single preamp, too many additional variables/elements all affecting SQ to a significant extend: one additional pair of interconnects, one more power chord and one more set of footers under the preamp ... PS Appearantly - as can be read in @ray-dude's extreme writeup here on this page - with a Chord DAVE this can even be driven further by connecting the DAVE directly to highly efficient speakers for maximum transparency. Very tempting. barrows 1 Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers Link to comment
Popular Post scintilla Posted April 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2021 Because the Spring 3 was announced to offer an optional preamp board for $500, I would expect the same will be offered for the May at some point, because the power supply of the May is certainly up to the additional task and most of the contents of the Serene box is power supply. After living with an NAD M51 for 8 years and using it as a digital preamp, there just is no going back to an analog preamp for me. I want only a direct-to-amp dac with software volume in HQP from now on, which is why the lack of volume control in the May was of no concern to me and why I can't see the point of even adding an optional preamp board. As long as the output stage has low enough impedance and can deliver sufficient voltage swing, there just is no advantage. The output stage IS a preamp, just one that lacks explicit and neutral control of the average output voltage, and that is literally where software volume controls shine the brightest. barrows, fds and luisma 3 Link to comment
Hiker Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Preamplifiers , I understand that however my personal experience with a new server has put me on a new path , it prompted me sell off my aging system . The Sparkos preamplifier was purchased primarily for headphone listening , I plugged it in my main system for a listen . What I noticed right away was a little jump of a living presence with vocals , a more human sound with well recorded person speaking and with vocals , which is very , very pleasing to my ears and so much more enjoyable then I have ever heard in my system . Thats just my experience,,. Link to comment
Foggie Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 To pre or not to pre will always be situational and personal preference. That being said, if one looking at a DAC like the May or any other high quality unit for that matter, how would you approach running dual / multi subs? Running a signal direct from the amp(s) to sub can be an option but what else? My rig Link to comment
scintilla Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 I use a splitter and drive a powered sub and the power amplifier in parallel, room-corrected with acourate. But a more elegant solution is to use a multichannel dac like the okto or exasound and drive it with HQP implementing digital cross-overs or use DIrac with bass management. I would not consider trying to implement multiple subwoofers without DSP room-correction because you are just going to mess it up otherwise. fds 1 Link to comment
barrows Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Hiker said: Preamplifiers , I understand that however my personal experience with a new server has put me on a new path , it prompted me sell off my aging system . The Sparkos preamplifier was purchased primarily for headphone listening , I plugged it in my main system for a listen . What I noticed right away was a little jump of a living presence with vocals , a more human sound with well recorded person speaking and with vocals , which is very , very pleasing to my ears and so much more enjoyable then I have ever heard in my system . Thats just my experience,,. If you like that better, great, but you need to understand that the sound which you are preferring is a coloration, and not part of the original recording. There is nothing wrong with that, you are welcome to like whatever you prefer. For those who prefer to hear a high fidelity to the the original recording, using a DAC with a robust output stage direct to the amp(s) will achieve that end. fds 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Hiker Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, barrows said: If you like that better, great, but you need to understand that the sound which you are preferring is a coloration, and not part of the original recording. There is nothing wrong with that, you are welcome to like whatever you prefer. For those who prefer to hear a high fidelity to the the original recording, using a DAC with a robust output stage direct to the amp(s) will achieve that end. I see , a more natural more living presence with a well recorded human voice is nothing but a coloration,... shahed99 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Mops911 Posted April 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2021 34 minutes ago, barrows said: is a coloration How do you know? you think that every part in the chain adds coloration? ok, but what if part one has impact -1.23 and part two has impact +1.23? (just trying to "abstract" coloration..;-) each part would add "coloration" by itself but not in combo with the other part. Yes, we should have a minimal approach as it makes it easier to understand and optimize the whole system, but as EInstein said "as easy as possible, but not easier"....just leaving something out, a preamp in this case, might make it either easier (good) or to easy (not good).... All I say is, that you stated a oversimplification that less is ALWAYS more....its NOT MichaelHiFi and shahed99 1 1 Link to comment
Mops911 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Diavolo said: Them fighting words 😁 👊 😁 haha, not at all, just not let people state "facts" without hearing the truth (pun intended) Diavolo 1 Link to comment
Foggie Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 54 minutes ago, scintilla said: I use a splitter and drive a powered sub and the power amplifier in parallel, room-corrected with acourate. But a more elegant solution is to use a multichannel dac like the okto or exasound and drive it with HQP implementing digital cross-overs or use DIrac with bass management. I would not consider trying to implement multiple subwoofers without DSP room-correction because you are just going to mess it up otherwise. Those are options for sure and may be required is some instances + rooms but totally unnecessary in others with proper setup. My pre has multiple outs and thus I use my subs settings for bass mgmt - the integration is ridiculously good in my current setup. I was just curious how some are doing multi subs without pre when going dac direct. I personally wouldn't be interested in getting a multi chnl dac "just because". Anyway this is getting way OT and there are plenty of pre discussion threads. Back to Holo discussions everyone! My rig Link to comment
Popular Post sledwards Posted April 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, Foggie said: I was just curious how some are doing multi subs without pre when going dac direct. I personally wouldn't be interested in getting a multi chnl dac "just because". I split the balanced output of the May and send the mains to my 2-channel power amp and the subs subs to a Mini DSP 4x10. I setup 4 powered subs using REW to create PEQ curves for the Mini DSP, where I also set appropriate LPFs and delay. I then use Acourate to create convolution filters for HQPlayer. For those who appreciate bass, the final result is jaw-dropping. I have abandoned the use of a preamp for three different DACs now. HQPlayer volume control thru Roon meets my needs. fds and Foggie 1 1 Link to comment
fds Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 My pair of REL subs is connected via the high level outputs of the monos. Then they are placed on the sides at half the depth of the room. The crossover between mains and subs is set to be below 80 Hz. Works ok ... but here (with my T+A and it would be the same with a May unfortunately) I really miss to have a multichannel DAC. Thus, I am still dreaming of a multichannel version of either the T+A or the May (or a DAVE). Also the ExaSound S88 looks highly interesting this way. I know for sure that using Acourate and Audiolense with a multichannel DAC would allow for much better sub-integration ... however the realism offered by the T+A native DSD DAC was just too convincing so that I had to keep it ... and it seems that the same would hold (and maybe even more so) for the May. louawalters 1 Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers Link to comment
Downtheline Posted April 9, 2021 Share Posted April 9, 2021 On 3/31/2021 at 3:10 PM, mrkoven said: Heads up on a great deal if you're looking for KTE May! Thanks for the heads up, this just got delivered! Link to comment
Popular Post scintilla Posted April 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2021 I love how we of the Holo are all about DSP. We are so few, but literally the ones that are getting it. All of it. Diavolo and lpost 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Toni-Mang Posted April 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2021 Digital Xovers, Cable Splitters, Digital Volume control...this is not everyone’s cup of tea. i.e. i am old fashion, my vinyl setup is as important for me as the MAY. And taste is subjective... MichaelHiFi and Diavolo 2 Papas Gear... Link to comment
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