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HOLO Audio MAY DAC


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1 minute ago, brightonjel said:

Thanks, GoldenOne, I'll ping them and see what gives.  (This is the KTE version so should have the upgraded USB hardware in place?)

Yeah definitely should be the latest. If you wouldn't mind letting us know what driver version they give that'd be great

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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14 minutes ago, brightonjel said:

Thanks, GoldenOne, I'll ping them and see what gives.  (This is the KTE version so should have the upgraded USB hardware in place?)

Also, download the 3012 upgrade file above and open the dfu file with the may connected. What does it say your firmware version is? 

 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Just now, brightonjel said:

Yes, for sure I'll report back when I hear something (and I'll hold off trying the 3012 file until then.)

You can use the dfu file in there to check what firmware you have. It won't update unless you click update

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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2 hours ago, Flextreme said:

 

I should mention that I also tried an PCIE Asmedia USB 3.1 extension module and have a AMD x5800/x570 board.

That will be why. A lot of the PCIe USB cards do not work with the higher sample rates. You have to use one of the direct USB ports.

The May additionally has two versions of its firmware, one which supports 1.5mhz but may not work with all PCIe cards (this is stock usually)
and one that maxes out at DSD512/PCM768khz but will work with all the PCIe and other USB cleanup products.

Personally i'd say that 768khz on a good USB source is much better than 1.536mhz on mobo output anyway.
 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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8 hours ago, Flextreme said:

 

I tried all ports, removed my jitterbug, no luck so far. Also deleted devices with Device Cleaner before trying different ports.  I'm running on v1.20 firmware, should be recent?! BTW, I also like VR, and my HP reverb G2 headset also had USB issues. Mayby it is AMD related, or mayby it is time for a clean Windows install, mine is 4 years old. Come to think of it, I can try my intel based laptop. 

 

Will focus on testing 7xx Khz rates. I have to say, that Roon's upsampling is also an option. Especially with EQ enabled I prefer it over standard signal. It is clear to me HQplayer upsampling seems to give slightly more resolution, but i need more time testing the different settings. It is a fun but also tiring process because the differences are subtle. 

 

Is there a objective way to find out (other than subjective listening) which USB port gives best results?

Double check you're actually on the firmware that allows for 1.536mhz playback. There are two versions of the may firmware.

Download the attached file and run the "DFU" file (make sure you've got holo drivers installed first).
If it says you're on 3014, then that's the 768khz version. If you're on 3012 then it should play 1.536mhz fine. 
(If yours is a later number than these then you might have newer firmware so i'm not sure, let us know if that's the case though)

You can swap between these two firmware versions freely. If you are on 3014 and want to flash to 3012 then you can do so by clicking "Update" in the 3012 file

holo_gen2_3012_upgrade-20201231T222201Z-001.zip holo_gen2_3014_768k_upgrade-20201231T222148Z-001.zip

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, Flextreme said:

 

Thank you!!

 

I could not find firmware upgrades for the may anywhere, where can I find these. 

 

It says 30.14 in my Asio info tab. Are there any specific benefits to 30.14? Does not make sense that the higher version does not include the upgrade. But it does not matter if it works. :)

 

Edit: these are spring firmware? I noticed after the update, when my dac was listed as spring in Roon. Going back to 3014 did not work. Did a driver/device cleanup, also does not work. I will contact Kitsune for support, I hope they have a May firmware they can send. 

That's just cause roon doesn't have tagging for the may yet (though they have reached out to holo for it apparently)  https://community.roonlabs.com/t/add-identification-for-holo-may-dac/115197

So it will have removed whatever custom name you had for it previously.

afaik 3014 is just for better compatibility with PCIe USB cards. If you don't have one or don't have any issues, try flashing the 3012, should allow you to use 1.5mhz (though ofc some PCIe cards may not allow this, so try with mobo connection)

Kitsune's latest drivers are here: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
Click the "Downloads" section.

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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13 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

 

That is where I also originally got my drivers. That page specifically stated there is no firmware upgrade for May available. 

 

The firmwares are listed as Spring onoly firmware in the readme. I knew all this, so I never tried them.

 



*  Spring2 new usb firmware 30.12

*  Spring2 new usb firmware 30.14(only support up to pcm768k and dsd512). This firmware can be worked with those ‘hifi’ PCIE usb cards.

 

I assumed you sent me specific may firmware updates, and you got them privately from Kitsune. Luckily the firmware update tool still works.

 

 

 

 

There isn't a firmware update, just a firmware swap. (between 3012 and 3014). 

 

These are for the may, wildism (Asia official dealer for holo) gave them to me. I have no idea if the spring 2's upgraded usb firmware is the same as the may or not. (I think spring 2's upgraded module and the may share the same firmware but could be wrong) 

 

No one has mentioned if they've received any firmware update privately from kitsune so unfortunately I don't know what they're providing.

 

I did ask kitsune a while ago just in case they happened to have newer/different drivers or firmware than wildism (the drivers wildism gave me are actually a newer version than what kitsune has on their site) , but they told me they wouldn't provide any info/assistance cause I didn't order from them.  So no idea what's up. 

 

You can freely swap between the two firmware versions though. Because you were on 3014 that is why you weren't able to use 1.536mhz. If you swap to 3012 it will work. 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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49 minutes ago, Flextreme said:

 

The .bin file you provided is identical (on a bit level) to the .bin file in the official download, where Kitsune states that this one only is intended for the Spring (both on the website and in the readme). I can only assume it was a misunderstanding by wildism.

 

Did you use these firmwares on the May?

 

I'm only disappointed in myself, because I was not careful enough. I was not sure before flashing, and I assumed these were really May firmware. The firmware version was on the May was 3014 in my asio tool before flashing, so it all looked fine and dandy.

 

I did read everything displayed by in the firmware tool, but is does not mention Spring or May.  Too bad the 3014 firmware form the downloads does not work either, luckily the May is not bricked and the firmware tool still works.

 

This could be a easy fix, at least I hope so.   

 

I have not heard from the Kitsune Support yet

 

I'm not sure. These are the ones provided by wildism and they worked fine on my may (which has the may-specific upgraded USB). Additionally there is no may-specific firmware in the kitsune download. As I understand it, the Spring 2 "Gen 2" USB implementation and the may or may-upgraded USB use the same firmware, whilst the spring 1 (and some early spring 2's) use a different one. Though I have to say it is frustratingly unclear.

If you do hear back from Kitsune, would love to know what they say, I imagine there will be others who might chance on this thread whilst looking for may firmware stuff and it'd be helpful for many. Plus if there is a may specific firmware i'd want to put it on mine.

Hope you can get yours sorted for 1.5mhz!

(PS: Did you try running 3012?)


 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Also, Wildism gave me v4.82 drivers for the may.
Kitsune only has v4.67 on the site.

So I have no idea what's going on or what's what. I do wish it was a bit more clear as to what firmware is the latest and what is for what.

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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3 minutes ago, giordy60 said:

.

hi Devil a question ....

which server do you use to upsampling to DSD 1024?

thanks

I think the dsd5 modulator is fairly light on the cpu so 1024 isn't awfully hard. 

 

Its the ec modulators that sound amazing but are incredibly intensive. 

Though personally I prefer asdm7ec x256 to anything I can run at x1024

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 minute ago, Extreme_Boky said:

That's what I thought. I hope the +5V coming from the source is used only for the hand-shake / initialisation.

 

But, how would they separate the grounds (laptop ground -  MAY DAC ground, using the isolator IC's, and still be able to power up the whole USB interface with the internal power supply. This would mix the grounds and make isolator chip redundant. 

 

It would be good to know exactly how it's done.

I imagine they may have done something similar to the ifi Igalvanic perhaps

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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I'm not entirely sure how the may's USB is done in terms of what powers what, but I can say that its the only dac i've got where I cannot hear a difference between using direct to PC vs my SMS200 Ultra.

Even the chord dave (which has galvanic isolation on the power lines) did show a slight difference.

Seems the may's USB is exceptionally well done, but as Diavolo said, ymmv. Play about a bit and see what you feel works best for your setup

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, Lightwave said:

Got my Holo Audio May DAC yesterday. It’s getting more than 16 hours of burn-in time so far. 

 

Should I let it burn-in continuously for the recommended 500 hours or switch it off from time to time? The May runs hotter than I expected so I’m a bit nervous if it should be burned in continuously.

 

 

 

 

Not sure about burnin, but there is definitely a change in sound warm vs cold. Would strongly recommend not turning it off unless you have to. 

 

This goes for other r2r dacs, rockna, denafrips etc. The schiit yggy is infamous for its warmup time. 

 

 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Just wanted to post re: the drivers issue

Looks like kitsune has updated their driver/firmware download page now: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/#tab-downloads-links

Driver v5.0 is out, and also its got the 3012/3014 firmwares in there. It confirms that the same firmware is used for spring 2 and may which is good.

Also, for @Flextreme it says in the .txt file in the driver folder that apparently 3014 has been the "stock" driver since late 2020, but that they recommend you upgrade to 3012 if your USB chipset is compatible. So that explains why you couldn't use 1.536mhz stock.

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Just now, Lightwave said:

@GoldenOne, thank you for the detailed explanation on MQA. I appreciate you taking the time to shed some light on this confusing and seemingly protected MQA practice. It confirms what I heard. Perhaps MQA stands for Mob Quatrol Assurance. 😆

 

Now if anyone knows how Canadian can sign up for Qobuz, please help a brother out.

Should be able to do so through a vpn I think! 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, Flextreme said:

"Sinc-L" is  better to my ears than sinc-m, which makes HQplayer better than M-scaler?! 

Its entirely possible.
Sinc-M/Mscaler are 1m taps.
Sinc-L is 2m taps @768khz. I'm not sure if it goes higher than that for 1.536mhz. Maybe @Miska can clarify?

But yeah Sinc-L is looovely. Jussi did some fantastic work there <3

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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10 minutes ago, Lightwave said:

Given how robust the May’s USB interface is in handling jitter and how clean it sounds now, has anyone done any A/B hearing between feeding the May from a MacBook or Mac Mini with Audirvana (or a windows laptop) vs a dedicated music streamer like Lumin/Innuos/Aurelic?

 

I have no idea if my next step to get a dedicated streamer will result in any discernible improvement in SQ.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

I've got an SMS200 Ultra which gives a sliiiiight improvement.
On other dacs its much more noticeable. But on the may honestly I wouldn't worry unless you're using a beefy gaming PC or something (in which case I'd want to isolate from it just in case cause of how electrically noisy they are :P, hell my main PC when the GPU is active the noise floor of my speakers (connected to my 2nd DAC which is connected to PC via USB) is audible whereas when pc is idle its not.

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, Loli said:

Anyone heard the Rockna Wavelight? I can't find any comparison between Wavelight and May

A user on head-fi posted a comparison: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/holo-audio-may-dac-speculation.865892/post-16088847
image.thumb.png.fe97f5472caa3af39774141e8bf9e1a4.png
 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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