HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[KenMoreira]

On 6/20/2022 at 8:26 PM, musicman1 said:

I finally was able to use DSD 1024X with various Modulators such as AMSDM7 512+fs without any issues. It still appears I may need to upgrade my CPU if I want to use the EC modulators, however I haven't tried them all. I'm also using convolution filters from Accurate Sound so I'm sure that's not helping things. One thing I've noticed using Roon and HQPlayer is sometimes things are very finnicky and I have to play with things to get everything to work, regardless if I previously changed anything or not.

 

I was wondering if there should be a specific order on turning on hardware and starting software. I usually turn on in this order - Headphone amp - Holo May DAC - HQPlayer - Roon. Is there a better order to do this? Also I have ordered the Holo Audio Serene KTE with hopes it can bring my Audio levels up a bit considering I'm losing several dB by upsampling to DSD. 

Guessing you have hefty CPU just to do what you are. 

 

I wonder about dual socket server boards lol

[ArcticSapien]

On 6/10/2022 at 9:47 PM, Quadman said:

MultiCore DSP- Grayed        

Adaptive output- Checked

48K- Checked  

Cuda Offload- Blank

@Quadman You're a life saver. My HQP+Roon have been stuck for months since I bought them... unable to play without Constant Dropouts (CD). I also use a 12900k, 5600ddr5 32gb (without GPU). After trying your HQP settings above (+250ms buffer for good measure), my system went from CD to Occasional Dropouts. Enjoying the sweetness of HQP now. TQ.

 

Still trying out the various filters and modulators. Wonder why "DSD256 EC" sounded better on my system vs. "DSD512 non-EC" combination. I've read others, including @Miska who attested that DSD512 is better?

 

Playing with HQP Client also seem more trouble-free than HQP+Roon. I understand Jussi doesn't have the resources/time to develop a mobile-app for HQP Client. Pity. Perhaps an audiophile-cum-app developer can put up an app for HQP!

[Miska]

27 minutes ago, ArcticSapien said:

Still trying out the various filters and modulators. Wonder why "DSD256 EC" sounded better on my system vs. "DSD512 non-EC" combination. I've read others, including @Miska who attested that DSD512 is better?

 

Generally, EC modulators are better than non-EC. Possibly enough that it overcomes the DSD256 vs DSD512 difference.

 

But 12900K CPU should be able to do EC modulators at DSD512 without trouble. However, you get technically perfectly fine performance already at DSD256.

 

27 minutes ago, ArcticSapien said:

I understand Jussi doesn't have the resources/time to develop a mobile-app for HQP Client. Pity. Perhaps an audiophile-cum-app developer can put up an app for HQP!

 

HQPDcontrol is precisely that. Works fine for local libraries, but doesn't support Qobuz or other streaming services.

 

For my own "mobile use" (tablet), I'm running HQPlayer Client on Microsoft Surface tablet.

 

[ArcticSapien]

Thanks @Miska. The EC modulators sound clearly better on my system. EC2 though is a hit-and-miss due to more dropouts.

On the filter list, is it generally true that those lower in the list require more computing power?

eg sinc-L > sinc-M?

eg poly-sinc-gauss-xl > poly-sinc-gauss?

 

2 hours ago, Miska said:

HQPlayer Client on Microsoft Surface tablet.

You're right! I wasn't thinking clearly... overly focused on my Android mobile. Yes, the Surface should do it. 

 

(Yes, 12900 should be good enough to run the EC modulators. I'm still using an unmanaged switch to connect to my Sonore opticalRendu... I believe I need to resolve this bottleneck first.)

[barrows]

8 minutes ago, ArcticSapien said:

Thanks @Miska. The EC modulators sound clearly better on my system. EC2 though is a hit-and-miss due to more dropouts.

On the filter list, is it generally true that those lower in the list require more computing power?

eg sinc-L > sinc-M?

eg poly-sinc-gauss-xl > poly-sinc-gauss?

 

You're right! I wasn't thinking clearly... overly focused on my Android mobile. Yes, the Surface should do it. 

 

(Yes, 12900 should be good enough to run the EC modulators. I'm still using an unmanaged switch to connect to my Sonore opticalRendu... I believe I need to resolve this bottleneck first.)

I think that running an unmanaged switch should be OK here, perhaps @Miska can confirm.  It is advised that switches for using HQPlayer NAA allow for "flow control" to be used, and unmanaged switches allow for this.  I do not use a Holo DAC, but a Bricasti (with a discrete, true single bit DSD conversion stage) and I prefer DSD 256, with the ECv2 modulator, and poly-sinc-gauss XLA for 1x, and poly-sinc-gauss-long for Nx oversampling.

I am surprised that you are getting dropouts?  You should have plenty of processing power, I suspect some kind of Network issue rather than computer problem is causing your dropouts. 

[ArcticSapien]

@barrows I was driven up the wall and gave up some months back, I'm now restarting my problem solving. I've narrowed it down to:

* unmanaged switch? Thought some other forums identified this as an issue. 

 

* Sonore opticalRendu? Read from other pages that the oR has limitations. I see that you're using the oM+SigRendu without problems. 

 

* network issues... but the dropouts go away when I use less demanding modulators, so it doesn't seem to be a network problem.

But I use Google Nest WiFi to connect to the switch>oR>Holo May DAC (yes bummer... I wasn't able to run a fibre cable across to my music room). So, this could all be resolved with a direct cable link!

 

Gotta try eliminate these possible causes one by one! 

[KenMoreira]

46 minutes ago, ArcticSapien said:

@barrows I was driven up the wall and gave up some months back, I'm now restarting my problem solving. I've narrowed it down to:

* unmanaged switch? Thought some other forums identified this as an issue. 

 

* Sonore opticalRendu? Read from other pages that the oR has limitations. I see that you're using the oM+SigRendu without problems. 

 

* network issues... but the dropouts go away when I use less demanding modulators, so it doesn't seem to be a network problem.

But I use Google Nest WiFi to connect to the switch>oR>Holo May DAC (yes bummer... I wasn't able to run a fibre cable across to my music room). So, this could all be resolved with a direct cable link!

 

Gotta try eliminate these possible causes one by one! 

You could consider "power line" of course using that will induce noise.  How much is and weather its audible who knows. 
but at least You would be wired. 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, ArcticSapien said:

Thanks @Miska. The EC modulators sound clearly better on my system. EC2 though is a hit-and-miss due to more dropouts.

On the filter list, is it generally true that those lower in the list require more computing power?

eg sinc-L > sinc-M?

eg poly-sinc-gauss-xl > poly-sinc-gauss?

 

That's the case for those filters, but the list ordering is not based on how much computational power is needed, but just grouped as features. And I tend to add new things to the end, unless they are grouped with something earlier.

 

[KenMoreira]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

That's the case for those filters, but the list ordering is not based on how much computational power is needed, but just grouped as features. And I tend to add new things to the end, unless they are grouped with something earlier.

 

so what IS the most demanding now? sync  L L ? or Li? whichever that is lol 

[barrows]

1 hour ago, ArcticSapien said:

@barrows I was driven up the wall and gave up some months back, I'm now restarting my problem solving. I've narrowed it down to:

* unmanaged switch? Thought some other forums identified this as an issue. 

 

* Sonore opticalRendu? Read from other pages that the oR has limitations. I see that you're using the oM+SigRendu without problems. 

 

* network issues... but the dropouts go away when I use less demanding modulators, so it doesn't seem to be a network problem.

But I use Google Nest WiFi to connect to the switch>oR>Holo May DAC (yes bummer... I wasn't able to run a fibre cable across to my music room). So, this could all be resolved with a direct cable link!

 

Gotta try eliminate these possible causes one by one! 

You should not have any limitations caused by the opticalRendu, it should work flawlessly with high rates of DSD (note that the oR only cares about the DSD rate, and there will be no difference as far as the oR is concerned as to the use of EC modulators, etc).  I do advise updating the software on the oR if you have not done so.  Sonore regularly updates things to keep up with Linux and NAA updates.

I suspect your WiFi connection.  While WiFi "should" technically be able to handle all of this, in practice, it has been observed that home Network WiFi connections do not always work as well as they "should", technically.  I would suggest running a fiber cable without WiFi to test if the WiFi is causing problems.

 

It is very curious that you report dropouts go away with non EC modulators???  this would suggest the problem is not Network related.  Are you absolutely sure of this?  I know it can be hard to diagnose these things, especially if the dropouts are only very occasional.

[KenMoreira]

optimal 
'dsd source settings' ? 

[ArcticSapien]

Thanks for the tips. Been helpful to problem-solve.

 

11 hours ago, KenMoreira said:

You could consider "power line"

Good point... perhaps time to re-try this. Used them >10 years ago, but the tech is likely much better now. Probably more stable than Mesh WiFi.  I believe Stability > Bandwidth > Speed for audio streaming.

 

10 hours ago, barrows said:

I would suggest running a fiber cable without WiFi to test if the WiFi is causing problems.

 

It is very curious that you report dropouts go away with non EC modulators???  this would suggest the problem is not Network related.  Are you absolutely sure of this?  I know it can be hard to diagnose these things, especially if the dropouts are only very occasional.

Yes, I really need to test it with a direct cable link... Messy process that I've been putting off.

It's time-consuming to isolate & diagnose the whole signal/equipment chain. Eg apparently LAN cables with metal casings can also mess it up. I read about the oR issue from another forum. Not sure if that's definitely a problem. AGillis of SGC, who has been very helpful, also warned that oR maxes out at 768k and that it's very much a trial-and-error process.

 

I also believe it's more likely a network issue, but it could well be "all of the above"!

Still testing out the various modulators. Not clear yet if the EC modulators are the choke point. Here's a new observation... I can sometimes go on smoothly for 30+ minutes with 256 ECv2... but then it freezes up and doesn't re-start.

[barrows]

2 hours ago, ArcticSapien said:

I read about the oR issue from another forum

I test Signature Rendus, which have the same capability as the oR (same processor, OS, and memory as oR), with DSD 256 and DSD 512 all the time here and have no issues.  I run, in my own system, a Signature with DSD 256/ECv2 all the time with no issues.  I know of others who have reported playing DSD 1024 with no issues as well, although I have no DAC here capable of that rate for my own testing.  Higher data rates do require more current from the power supply, so a weak (insufficient current capability) power supply might cause an issue.   

 

If the server is having a problem with using the EC modulators, the fault is pretty easy to isolate, as there will be consistent dropouts every few seconds or so, or even no sound at all.  Occasional dropouts, with no distinct pattern at all, are usually Network related issues.

[Asimov]

On 6/7/2021 at 1:43 PM, Roasty said:

hey guys

 

I just received my Holo May KTE. Tim at Kitsune was great to deal with, and got it shipped out earlier than planned. I was expecting it to  only arrive in another two to three weeks.

 

I'm on the 30.14 firmware so understand it is limited to 768pcm. but I have a problem which i was hoping you guys could help with. 

 

I'm using HQPlayer for upsampling. 
Direct PC to May via USB, i can get music playing at 768.

However, if i put a Denafrips Hermes in between (and then connect to May via i2s), the May shows it playing at half the sample rate 384khz. 

Roon shows hqplayer upsampling to 768, and the Denafrips Hermes 768 sample rate light is lit up. but May is showing 384Khz.

 

Any idea why that is so?

Hi

I'm not sure if you already figured it out. However, I faced the same problem after getting the Hermes. Hermes is the culprit here. It could take up to  768KHz on USB Input but maximum 384KHz on I²S Output. Please check it here:  https://www.denafrips.com/specs-hermes 

[Roasty]

5 hours ago, Asimov said:

Hi

I'm not sure if you already figured it out. However, I faced the same problem after getting the Hermes. Hermes is the culprit here. It could take up to  768KHz on USB Input but maximum 384KHz on I²S Output. Please check it here:  https://www.denafrips.com/specs-hermes 

 

hey thanks man

I wasn't aware of that when I had the hermes. had, meaning I sold it a while back. am back to just USB into the May now. but thanks! 

[Cand224]

Been looking to upgrade my Bifrost to a high end dac, May has been one of them but I'm not sure if it would be the best fit as an all around media source. I listen to a lot of music, but I keep my dac connected to a high end PC as I do a lot of video editing. Also primarily use my PC for movies, shows, netflix etc. Would I be better off with an oversampling dac? I'm worried that NOS outside of player/hqplayer upsampling will make things sound off.

[KenMoreira]

1 hour ago, Cand224 said:

Been looking to upgrade my Bifrost to a high end dac, May has been one of them but I'm not sure if it would be the best fit as an all around media source. I listen to a lot of music, but I keep my dac connected to a high end PC as I do a lot of video editing. Also primarily use my PC for movies, shows, netflix etc. Would I be better off with an oversampling dac? I'm worried that NOS outside of player/hqplayer upsampling will make things sound off.

Sounds better not off 

[Schafheide]

dear

On 6/10/2022 at 7:25 AM, bobflood said:

I apologize! I was thinking of the old dual firmware situation (30.14 and 30.12) from the 2.0 USB module. The new 2.1 module does come with the 3144 fixed volume firmware installed at the factory. This is the correct one for most all situations and should support DSD 1024 and PCM 1536. It still might be a stretch to get DSD 1024 (depending on the modulator) but PCM 1536 should be no problem at all. 

 

Hi bobflood

This is very cross topic, but, on the Sonore forum, I saw your query re the latest NAA for the ultraRendu.

Are you aware that you can update the NAA version yourself?  I recently went to 4.2.0 and heard improved SQ - not game to go to 4.2.3 in case I cannot go back!

[sdolezalek]

1 hour ago, Schafheide said:

Are you aware that you can update the NAA version yourself?  I recently went to 4.2.0 and heard improved SQ - not game to go to 4.2.3 in case I cannot go back!

Thanks for that reminder, I checked and realized I was still using 4.1.1 on my UltraRendu.  The software update took me to 4.2.0; I assdume getting to 4.2.3 requires more than Sonore's update package?

[Account Closed]

8 hours ago, Schafheide said:

dear

Hi bobflood

This is very cross topic, but, on the Sonore forum, I saw your query re the latest NAA for the ultraRendu.

Are you aware that you can update the NAA version yourself?  I recently went to 4.2.0 and heard improved SQ - not game to go to 4.2.3 in case I cannot go back!

Yes, I have the gear to flash a card and I did it once and it worked fine. But, I will just wait for Sonore to put it in the next update. Thanks 

[al210]

I’ve been reading DAC upgrades for the last several weeks. Upgrading from Chord Qutest. I have finally decided on the Holo May. Now the question is there that much difference between the L2 and KTE models to justify the extra $800? 
 

Secondly those who have ordered recently, what kinda of shipping times are they quoting on the two models?

[KenMoreira]

2 minutes ago, al210 said:

I’ve been reaching DAC upgrades for the last several weeks. Upgrading from Chord Qutest. I have finally decided on the Holo May. Now the question is there that much difference between the L2 and KTE models to justify the extra $800? 
 

Secondly those who have ordered recently, what kinda of shipping times are they quoting on the two models?

Most reviews say it's about 5 percent at the most from the L1 to kte. So no.  

 

Still, some say the spring 3 kte with pre amp module 90 percent of the May and serene combo.  So if you're looking for the r2r sound and want to go bang for buck get the spring. 

 

If you are set on the May get the level 2 and enjoy. 

 

 

[sworksone]

43 minutes ago, al210 said:

I’ve been reading DAC upgrades for the last several weeks. Upgrading from Chord Qutest. I have finally decided on the Holo May. Now the question is there that much difference between the L2 and KTE models to justify the extra $800? 
 

Secondly those who have ordered recently, what kinda of shipping times are they quoting on the two models?

I have the KTE - if debating between it and L2 and can afford it I’d recommend getting the KTE.  Yes it’s only a few percent better but if you don’t you’ll always be wondering what you’re missing.  If however the L2 is a bit of a stretch budget wise, it’s also a wonderful DAC.  As pointed out earlier, the Spring 3 with built in preamp is also very interesting in comparison to the L2 May unless you prefer a tube preamp (like me!).  

[musicjunkie917]

16 hours ago, al210 said:

Now the question is there that much difference between the L2 and KTE models to justify the extra $800?

 

The differences between the KTE May and L2 May are small. But, for me, those differences justified getting the KTE model and I am not sorry that I did.

[Kalpesh]

On 7/21/2022 at 2:14 AM, KenMoreira said:

Most reviews say it's about 5 percent at the most from the L1 to kte. So no.  

 

Still, some say the spring 3 kte with pre amp module 90 percent of the May and serene combo.  So if you're looking for the r2r sound and want to go bang for buck get the spring. 

 

If you are set on the May get the level 2 and enjoy. 

 

 

I haven't A/Bed Spring and May but heard them in the same system : not fool proof but I think that reviews suggesting the Spring is damn close to the May are misleading, the May is much more resolving. Physically differences go beyond a second box that would be full of 10 kilos of superfluous stuff ; the May is hot to the touch, the Spring isn't : they are notably different in their functioning, why would they sound alike ?

As of R2R sound though, I use my May almost exclusively with SDM feed

As of KTE vs L2, I don't have any comparison experience but picked a L2 which is, if not top of the commercial line, top of Jeff Zhu's offer and he did not conceived the May as budget : not convinced marketing dubbed better actually is