HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[dkdali]

Hello all

I just signed up but have been following the tread for months. Your experienced with the May dac has been part of the reason I had to have one.

Last night Magna just confirmed my KTE was ready to ship and I cant wait to get it in my system. It will be replacing my RME ADI-2 DAC FS which is a good dac but sounds a bit to harch with my STAX SR-009.

Reading your experiences with hqplayer it got me thinking if my Innuos Zenith mk3 (steaming from a ROON ROCK server) would be outclassed by a good hqplayer PC upsampling to 1.5MHz or DSD1024... Anybody who has compared the Zenith with hqplayer running on a PC?

[dkdali]

12 hours ago, lpost said:

Not a Zenith but I've gone from a Pink Faun 2.16 to a 2017 Dell PC to a Intel Atom

 

(https://up-shop.org/up-gateway-atom-x5-z8350-w-4g-memory-32g-emmc-board-w-vesa-plate.html)

 

also available at Mouser. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/AAEON-UP/UP-GWS01-A20-1432-A11?qs=%2Fha2pyFaduiqPaKHsTvEIjDEYu4O6sHmLjD52%2BUzjidN3XUuBDi9QCRZsVSwAsJS

 

I only had the motherboard USB ports on the Pink Faun (no fancy USB PCI-e board to try) and they were limited to 768 but didn't sound any better or worse than the PC...so much the same I sold the Pink Faun. Yesterday, I received the Intel Atom device powered by a decent smps and it's just a touch smoother/nicer/better than the Dell PC. To me it's the perfect HQP NAA endpoint to pair with the May.

 

Hope this helps while you wait for May delivery. It's well worth the wait!

 

It does 1.5MHz PCM without issue. Keep in mind, in each setup I have HQPe running on yet another PC as well as Roon Server also on it's own PC. I've only changed the NAA endpoint. I would focus on a good NAA endpoint and NOT have HQP PC connected via USB to dac. The network brings with it isolation.

 

 

Thanks for the input lpost

So you would have a Roon server streaming to a hqplayer PC/server steaming to a NAA endpoint - is that correctly understood?

Since the Innuos is basically a purpose build PC I wonder if it could run as a NAA endpoint? The Innuos clearly outperforms a PC as a Roon endpoint so I would assume the same would be the case if it could work as a NAA endpoint. I have tried to Google it but haven't found any official support or HowTo. Does anybody have any experience with this or the performance of Innuos products in combination with the May dac?

 

[dkdali]

Got my KTE edition yesterday and was foot tapping all evening. Very clear improvement right out of the box compared to my RME ADI-2 fs.

Left it playing during the night and next day and found to my surprise that after being on for about 24 hours it is so hot i cant keep my hand on the side panels....

Is that normal?

i do have my Innuos Zenith on top of it but I didn’t expect it to get that hot. So now i have turned it off and will write Holo if that is normal...

[dkdali]

10 minutes ago, lpost said:

Yes, it's normal. Give it space to breathe. I would not put anything on top of it. Try it on top of the Zenith. You should be able to keep your hand on it but not want to for long. Mine is ~100F/38C on the top surface.

Thanks for the quick response!

And good to know it’s normal though quite surprising for a dac!

Guess i need to rearrange my gear again tomorrow 😉

[dkdali]

Moving the Zenith below the May has helped and it is at least 5 degrees cooler then with the Zenith on top.

Another factor with the previous setup was that it was on top of my Powerplant which also has some heat radiation which was going up into the May. The Zenith is cooler so that is probably part of the improvement.

I will be looking in to getting a rack as my 5 stack + amp on the side (and etherregen on the back) is getting a bit silly...

20210422_155401225_iOS.heic

[dkdali]

1 minute ago, Quadman said:

You still have a lot of stuff on the dac.  Is it just warm to the touch now so you can leave your hand there?

I can. Now it feels like a power amp - hot but not burning (if that makes sense)

But as I wrote then I will be looking in to getting a rack - potentially I could have the power supply and dac on separate shelves. That´s 6 shelves + 1 for when I get my dream Blue Hawaii SE amp for the STAX with separate power supply -> 7 shelves.....

They said: "Get a headphone setup - you wont need as many boxes".... ;-)

[dkdali]

Sorry for taking up a topic from another forum (hope it is ok!?). Its May dac related 😉

@GoldenOne and others. With your experience with the May dac, HQP and ROON I would like to ask a question:

Have you tried the May dac with a high quality dedicated ROON streamer (like a Innuos Zenith) and compared it to a PC or NAA device streaming HQP?

I have a Innuos Zenith Mk.3 and it was a significant improvement over my PC for ROON (sound quality and convenience)(and it fits nicely in to a HiFi rack 😉). I have been wondering if the sound improvement from the Zenith would compare with the improvements with HQP. My dream scenario would be that the Zenith could be a NAA device but I haven't found any information about that option.

It is not easy for me to make the comparison at the moment due to not having a PC anywhere near my May so any relevant experience would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dkdali]

21 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

I have tried a few sources. 

 

Interestingly the may was the first dac where I honestly could not tell the difference between most usb sources. The exception being my pc which was worse. 

 

I still use my sms200 ultra just because why not, might as well use the best source I've got right? But the may usb is phenomenal regardless of source. And I'd be quite happy with just a raspberry pi endpoint. 

 

On other dacs though the differences are more pronounced.

 

Clearly holo's usb implementation in the may is excellent. 

 

I also measured the jitter on it and the close in sidebands were below - 155dB, with wider random jitter all below -170dB. Absolutely crazy performance

Thanks for taking your time to answer - really depreciate it!

I looked at the sms200 ultra and as far as I can find it "only" supports 768KHz/DSD512. Really a shame the Innuos cant be used as a NAA device as it has the same capabilities and has ion reviews been found better performing than the sms200 ultra.... ah well...

In an earlier commend of you mentioned 1536KHz being better than 768KHz. Is that directly from the sms200 ultra, a PC or do you have another NAA device capable of such high frequencies?

[dkdali]

Finally got my Innuos Zenith to run embedded HQPlayer OS and streaming sweet 1536kHz (Sinc-Mx, LNS15) to the May.

I had expected to run the Zenith as a NAA but after having had huge problems with running the NAA image I ended up trying the OS image instead. To my huge surprise the Zenith upsamples to 1536kHz without any problems and I don't have to use my Windows PC to run the Desktop app - big win!

I have made a post in the Music Servers section if anybody else is interested in how to do this.

 

I have a HQPlayer - May dac question: I see that people like @GoldenOne configures HQPlayer to only send 20 bit sound to the May. I thought the May was capable of running 24 and 32 bit. Why not use the full bit resolution?

[dkdali]

10 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Where are you pulling these figures?

 

There's no DAC chip in May or Spring. Both are discrete. Plus a separate DSD mode.

 

Delta-sigma DAC chips are 1 - 6 bits, with 24- or 32-bit inputs to their DSP. Plus various such have direct path for DSD, bypassing the DSP.

 

 

If you send one bit too many with May, your linearity is screwed up and distortion is back. But you can safely go down to 16 bit without losing dynamic range or adding any distortion. So rather send too few bits than too many, with correct kind of noise shaper.

 

 

 

Because it is not physically possible to create R2R ladder that is accurate to such resolutions especially at sampling rates suitable for audio. For this reason you get more accuracy by using less bits, but higher sampling rate.

 

(note, Spring takes in 32-bit samples, but reports it's resolution to be 24-bit)

 

I just covered the topic once again here:

 

Thank you for the help (again) and Sorry for making you repeat already answered questions!

i must say that my system has really come alive after the change from pure Roon upsampling to HQPlayer upsampling/filtering. It is a bigger upgrade in sound quality than most hw upgrades i have made!

[dkdali]

Innuos’s servers can run HQPlayer OS and upsample to 1536kHz. No need for external PC and it sounds amazing 😎👍

[dkdali]

3 minutes ago, hemflaw said:

How handy -- that's an advantage over Antipodes I guess (unless they get back to me otherwise their limit is 24/384). Is their HQP implentation set up as a Roon endpoint? Or using the janky HQP UI? Or perhaps the Innuos software player?

I use it as a normal Roon endpoint. You can even see the filters and samplerate HQP is using directly in Roon

[dkdali]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:36 PM, hemflaw said:

 

Sorry, just to confirm -- what Innuos product are you using?

 

From https://innuos.com/statement/

Sample Rates:

44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4KHz. 192kHz, 352.8KHz, 384KHz, DSD64, DSD128, Native DSD up to DSD512 on selected DACs

 

This is the second time someone on here has confirmed 1.536 Ghz output on a device where the manufacturer max spec is 384 khz.  : ) 

 

I guess we do need a list.

I have a Zenith and it maxes out at 768kHz in Roon. Not sure why Innuos only writes 384kHz - maybe that is the limit in their own SW

But it is a Intel based motherboard so HQP can run 1536kHz on it.

[dkdali]

16 minutes ago, sworksone said:

I posted this question on the HQPlayer / Mac Mini thread but hoping someone here could let me know the answer based on experience / knowledge.  I’m presently using an Innuos Zenith as a CD ripper / server / Roon Core (realizing it’s likely overkill for this purpose) connected to a Mac Mini (via a direct Ethernet connection) which is dedicated to HQPlayer desktop (usb out to a May KTE).  I’m able to output 512DSD (which I believe I prefer) or 256DSD with the EC modulators.  The sound quality is amazing and in my system I greatly prefer 256/512 DSD over 1.4/1.5 kHz PCM which is very detailed but is too thin sounding for my tastes regardless of filters / DAC bits / etc.  My understanding is I’m limited to DoP vs native DSD from the Mac Mini.  Longer term given how happy I am with this set-up, I will likely upgrade the processing power for 1024 DSD.  Prior to this however (or even after) and with the galvanically isolated usb on the May and with native DSD would I notice any sound quality improvement by adding an NAA into the mix?  I’m a bit confused by this and would appreciate any insight.

I would run the Zenith as a NAA - best of both worlds!

Just answered your mail (sorry for the late reply)

[dkdali]

15 hours ago, sworksone said:

 

Now I understand - sorry misread your earlier post.  My theory is that 1.5 pcm is typically preferred  in a system that is on the warmer side of neutral or possibly completely neutral (whatever that is), while it has an extreme clarity but can be a bit too lean in a less warm system.  I have a solid state amp and high detail B&W speakers and 1.5pcm in nos was a bit too bright / lean although with amazing clarity.  The May in pcm / DSD OS seems to take a bit of the edge off.  Like everything, system and preference dependent.  

Have you tried to experiment with the various filters i HQP?

1.5 MHz can sound very different depending on the filter so if it is too bright/lean on your system I would trie experimenting with that. I would be surprised if you couldn’t find a filter that would improve your weak areas.

I mainly use 2 different filters (sorry can remember which ones and i am not home to check my list😉) - 1 for jazz/r&b and 1 for rock/pop. I find that changing a filter can often make a bigger change than changing a HW component in my system!

On top of that i EQ in Roon and have several profiles depending on the quality of the recording. I mainly use that to lower the treble on bad recordings.

And by the way make sure you have the optimal other HQP settings - 20bit, volume etc