HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[toddrhodes]

Well, @GoldenOne better be getting a commission because he sold another May KTE today. 

 

I currently have a DF Venus II and Ian Canada DDC. I am very happy with the overall sound, however I have a couple niggles:

 

I get a "click" or glitch every so often on the i2S input. Doesn't happen on USB, and it's happened with multiple i2S sources. I've worked with Alvin to remedy but no dice. It's not necessarily a dealbreaker but it does create a bit of a distraction like... "is it gonna do it?" Takes me out of the experience, I'm sad to say.

 

And then the whole NOS-but-not-NOS thing isn't a huge deal, but it is annoying, and I do use HQPlayer with a custom PC spec'd to do highend DSD and PCM filters. 

 

So, I decided to order a May KTE today. Not sure what the current lead times are looking like, but I can be patient, not a huge deal. 

 

I'm using a Pi4 with HQP NAA image, fiber optical Ethernet converters into my room and powering it with a LifePO4 battery PSU from Ian Canada. USB cable is a dual head model from Ghent. Overall I'm super excited, as May should complement my tastes and my other equipment really well.

 

The real loser here is my vinyl setup. It will, once again, continue to collect dust, I'm afraid.

[toddrhodes]

2 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

About 6 weeks lead time. And I spoke to Tim about using a pi and he said don't bother, I wouldn't. Which is no surprise. The PLL in their dacs is better then the ones in most streamers lol

 

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why wouldn't I use a Pi4? Is he suggesting to just connect directly from a PC to May? That's not necessarily possible in my case. I could make it work, but having a Pi as an HQP NAA makes way more sense.

[toddrhodes]

Interesting. I can upsample to DSD512 and PCM1.5 (is that fs32?) on my Venus II via direct output of Pi4 --> USB --> Venus II, using the HQP NAA image. So I know the Pi is capable of outputting it, at least. How the May reconciles/allows that from its end, I can't say. 

 

I CAN put the PC next to it. It's just, well, loud :) And my concern there is that nothing has been done in that PC to make it electrically quiet and it's a bit too muscular (CPU, GPU, Fans) for an LPSU to work with it. 

 

Very interesting, either way. Thanks!

[toddrhodes]

Just got my May KTE today. Warming up now with DSD128, from my Zen Stream USB. Hope to do some critical listening to it before we go on vacation in 10 days.

[toddrhodes]

I'm on night #2 with May KTE. I've had music playing for about 30 hours so far. DSD256, ASDM7EC, gauss-long from HQ Player via Zen Stream NAA, USB into May. Other DAC is a DF Venus II.

 

A little early to make any sort of final conclusion, but so far - I am really impressed by May. Excellent detail retrieval but it retains the musicality and swing and "fun" that I so enjoyed from Venus II. And I am absolutely a fan of Venus II despite a couple minor gotchas. It just sounds fun to listen to while being resolving and natural in its presentation. 

 

But May seems to take that same approach and build from it in a noticeably more transparent manner. 

 

And all this talk of burn in, but if I'm going to see improvements over the next 200-300 hours? Well hell yes. Because it already is the superior DAC, and it's not exactly subtle. 

[toddrhodes]

I had an extra shelf open on my rack so I have the PSU on one shelf, DAC on the shelf above that. Seemed rude not to :)

[toddrhodes]

5 hours ago, BrownMagic said:

I have a may KTE. After playing with the filters, I settled for Sinc MX at 1.5M pcm LNS15. I use Qobuz. 

 

Curious if you've tried gauss-long? I really enjoy it on DSD256, ASDM7EC modulator.

 

Going to switch back to sinc mx tonight, as I do really like that one as well.

[toddrhodes]

That's the thing - to me they sound quite similar, but Mx brings with it a pretty serious performance penalty. Gauss-long doesn't seem like it gives up anything, but is an easier load. 

 

I can do more critical listening but off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that Mx has over and above gauss-long. Then again, that's also why I want to go back to it tonight.

[toddrhodes]

And likewise, it's just a simple filter change if you're curious. My observations may not match yours anyway.

[toddrhodes]

Sinc-L is amazing, but at the conversion ratio up to DSD256, you'd better prepare to wait quite a bit for a track to start. Sinc-L is really good for 8x and 16x PCM upsampling, IMO. On the DSD side, it's a bit much.

[toddrhodes]

That would be cool. Would be nice if they'd allow for power to come from the May PSU too, if one has it. That said, I just went through a quick exercise to eliminate my Freya+ for the digital side and will be using HQP and "adaptive gain" volume through Roon, to control volume through May. 

 

No real listening impressions yet other than - it works.

[toddrhodes]

Granted I don't have a terribly convenient way to try PCM 1.5 except for a 3M dual head USB cable directly from my HQP PC via ASIO driver to May - it's pretty good. Far better than I remember a "direct PC to DAC" connection sounding prior, at least.

 

That said, I still prefer, by no small margin, DSD256 + 7EC + gauss-long from my Zen Stream to May KTE.

 

I just went through a few filters on Chocolate Chip Trip:

All filters assume DSD256/7EC modulator:

EXT2 - very exciting filter, lots of snap, but doesn't layer like I prefer

Sinc S - better than I remember. Been awhile since I revisited this one but it's a great filter for minimal overhead but nice slam, good layering, and good detail

Sinc M - to me, just more of what I like about Sinc S, but with a little performance penalty

Sinc Mx - on my setup I have to have CUDA fully checked to use this one without a severe penalty at DSD256/7EC. But it does sound great. Probably my favorite overall sound, but I don't use it much if I'm hopping around tracks because it takes some power to wind up and play

Gauss-Long - still my goto. To me it's everything I love about Sinc Mx - detail, slam, layering, sparkle and startling dynamics - but with very little performance penalty. However, it does push my 9900kf pretty darn good. Apparently I should be looking at watercooling this setup at some point... Temps are getting a little toasty.

 

Either way. For me, I still prefer DSD through the May and I enjoy gauss-long for its performance and quality proposition.

[toddrhodes]

Just now, KenMoreira said:

Do you use two filters or the same in both drop downs  (1x and nx) 

 

I just use the same filter in both areas. 

 

I will say - when you're doing DSD256 - Sinc L is using a ratio based on what you're converting from and to. And that conversion ratio generally results in a LOT of taps. I don't know the exact math, but I gave up on that thing a long time ago. I think Sinc Mx does a great job filling the gap with it, anyway.

[toddrhodes]

I just use "ASDM7EC" - the other one is for 512+ rates, which no PC on the planet can do right now, so that's more HQ Player Pro territory I believe.

 

That said, if I were you, I'd gray out "Multicore DSP" and also "Adaptive output rate." On my setup, I have Multicore DSP gray, Adaptive Rate checked, CUDA checked. 

 

It may have changed but at one point, having Multicore DSP checked like you have, caused poor performance/skips and such. Graying it fixed that and allowed for a higher rate and better modulator on my end.

[toddrhodes]

This is my setup:

 

[toddrhodes]

4 hours ago, Ozan Bolat said:

DAC bits can (should ? it probably doesn't matter but) be left to default with SDM that is your sole output I understand

Good deal - I'll update that now. I sometimes flip back and forth from PCM so I would just leave it but I think I'm pretty settled that for me, DSD is the way. Thanks!

[toddrhodes]

5 minutes ago, KenMoreira said:

What is 48K DSD.  You both have it checked 

For both DF and Holo DACs (and probably others, these are just the ones I'm familiar with), they will accept DSD at 48k rates, which I believe, in conjunction with "Adaptive Output Rate," makes for an easier load on HQPlayer to convert sample rates. I would be willing to bet that you'll see better performance if you check or gray Adaptive Output Rate and check 48k DSD, then set your DSD rate to 48k 256.

 

Basically what you're telling HQPlayer right now is that if you are playing 24/96, then it should resample to multiples of 44.1 (but in the DSD range, which is much higher but I'm lazy and don't feel like doing the conversion math right now) only. But really, it should be able to do 44.1 rate families in even multiples, and 48k families in even multiples (96, 192, 384 - but again in DSD rates). Checking Adaptive Output Rate allows for this "keep it in the family" feature. There is nothing to be gained by taking 88.2 and converting it to 96, or vice versa - just more work for the machine which might just add unnecessary noise.

 

This reduces the work your machine has to do to resample one rate family to another, which your current settings are forcing it to do :)

 

And without 48k DSD checked, I don't think it will even try to use that rate family for DSD conversion since not all DACs support it. But ours and yours do.

[toddrhodes]

16 minutes ago, 87mpi said:

I'm a DSD fan too, in fact I built an i9 9900k PC just for that, but For me the best SQ on S3 KTE is definitely the PCM 1536 Sinc-M LNS15.  I like Sinc-s too. The sound is more palpable and ALIVE, more 3D. DSD in comparison is more 2D to me, even though it has more black. For the DSD my favorite SETTING is ASDM7EC 256 and  gauss long. I use the direct USB connection from the motherboard (asrock z390m-itx phantom) with Sablon 2020 cable.

I would like to upgrade to a jcat or pink faun usb pcie card with external linear power supply.

Were you using DSD256 and 7EC modulator as well?

 

I was surprised how good PCM 1.5 sounded directly off my HQP motherboard - kinda makes me wonder how it might sound if using HQP Embedded without all the Windows stuff going on like I have now. But still, there was definitely some grain to it that I don't get from my Zen Stream. My hope is that iFi puts out a new streamer at some point (or someone, anyway) that can do PCM 1.5. I don't really see the point in DSD rates higher than 256 (or below that, for that matter), because I just don't feel like any sort of direct connection from a PC to a DAC can compete with a quiet, low-jitter streamer with even decent clocks in it like the iFi. Shame it only does PCM384 though.

 

Anyway, reason I ask is that in 265/7EC with gauss long or sinc-s or sinc-mx, there is no shortage of dynamics, sharpness where needed, "excitement," and so forth. It's startling on many tracks I listen to.

[toddrhodes]

22 minutes ago, 87mpi said:

Yes, 256 and 7EC modulator. 

 

I come from an older 3 Pc networked system, a nuc i5 for roon server, i9 9900k for HQP, nuc i3 fanless as endpoint NAA with LPS Keces P8, another LPSs on router and switch. 

 

I removed everything when I heard the difference compared to the PC i9 9900k plugged directly into USB in the Dac. 

Sounds noticeably better.

 

May/Spring 3 KTE USB input is truly works wonders! 

 

Now I use GentooPlayer OS (Linux OS with a myriad of options and customizations.  You can simply activate or deactivate different servers like HQP desktop or Embedded, LMS, Roon, mpd, different players, kernels, ram system etc .. You can really do whatever you want, the.  All with a spectacular and simple web interface, unlike Audiolinux for example) and only HQP embedded  and olny local files, zero streaming service. I use the network only to control the player from the tablet with the HQPcontrol v4 app.  Once in play you can also unplug the network cable, so finally zero network influence! 

 

I will not go back for sure! 

 

Sounds like a really neat setup! As a roon user and a Qobuz user, it's not for me, but I do have a GentooPlayer license floating around here somewhere, it was really powerful and I was only using it for an NAA at the time. 

 

Glad you found your sweet spot!

[toddrhodes]

3 minutes ago, Zauurx said:

 

I am taking the opportunity of this post to... do a little disgression.
I don't have a May but a Pegasus... no Zen Stream but an Allo USBRidge SIG with which I can switch from PCM 1.5
However I am interested in this Zen Stream to know if it could be better than the Allo (+ Shanti).
What power supply do you use it with?
The USBridge with GentooPlayer is excellent but this is true for many equipment until you compare them.
I use 100% HQP for DSD 256 / sync.gauss.long (or xla) and ASDM7EC (core i5 8400 / Win10 LTSC).

 

Funny enough I just use the included iPower SMPS that comes with the Zen Stream. @GoldenOnetested it and it measured extremely well for low noise and very low jitter, so I took a shot on it. I had previously used a Pi4, Jussi's NAA image, and LifePO4 batteries. I did power the Zen Stream with LifePO4 5V for one night, but it can really suck those things down so I didn't stick with it. But to me, I don't recall hearing anything better about batteries than I heard from the PSU it comes with.

 

And the increase in SQ from the battery-powered Pi + DDC (Ian Canada DDC) to the Zen Stream with iPower PSU was substantial - remarkable even. So I got rid of all the Pis and crazy battery power supplies and DDCs and have been very satisfied since :)

[toddrhodes]

3 hours ago, mrwiggles said:

Just took delivery on a MAY KTE and plan to use HQP to power upsampling to the DAC. I have two questions that I hope those who have come before me can answer:

 

1. Is burn-in really a thing with this DAC? I read posts where people say that you really need 400+ hours of continuous playing (often unattended playlists just for this purpose) to really get the most out of the MAY. I am still waiting on my Pass Labs amp being delivered in a few weeks so have the time to just hook up the MAY to burn-in if that’s really required. But this feels like one of those audiophile myths that so often get debated.

 

2. I have the choice between a small form factor i9900k PC or an M1 Mac Mini for running HQP. My NAA will be an Intel NUC running the NAA OS image provided by HQP team. Plan is to experiment between 1.5 PCM upsampling vs DSD 256. Seems some people prefer one or the other with 1.5 PCM being the favorite. I think both systems can easily handle the PCM side. I’m leaning towards the M1 due to its small size, and virtually silent operation even though it would be running some distance from the NAA NUC. Any reason to choose one over the other? M1 is MUCH more power efficient as well.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

 

My May is about 4 weeks old now I think, and I've got probably 400+ hours of play on it, 100 hours of listening or thereabouts (totally guessing here as that seems real high now that I type it out) - IMO, it does get better with age. Better bass and improvements in imaging precision, meaning room cues and spatial cues, are what stand out to me. I've only used mine in NOS mode with HQP providing DSD256 to it. I've tried 32x PCM but just haven't locked into it yet. More on that in a sec. But to me, I didn't want to believe it and it DOES sound excellent out of the box. But whether it's acclimation or it "burns in," I have no idea, I just know I appreciate it now - I'm going to say "far more" - than right away. And that's saying a lot because right out of the box it presented an improved experience over my Denafrips Venus II it replaces.

 

More on that last point - I've fought this urge real hard, but I've come to the conclusion that going straight out of my USB port on my i9900KF HQ Player PC... is just as good as what I've become accustomed to using my Zen Stream as an NAA. I still intend to make the PC USB output "better" and try an even better USB cable than I have, but I'm simplifying my setup and now I'm just getting rid of the NAA entirely. I might go HQP Embedded and run Linux on this machine eventually, I'm not sure. But I can say the Titanis USB input is legit. I've tried it a few times and thought "Nah, it just can't be as good" and I'd convince myself it wasn't. But really, it is. And this is the same thing being said for Spring 3 L3 with the same input as well. My May does have the "enhanced" USB input but I'm using an Intel chip so it technically shouldn't matter in my setup.

 

I now have a Curious Evolved USB cable coming to try out, and have moved May KTE back out of my room and it sits right next to the HQ Player PC. In terms of preferring DSD over PCM - I do get what others say about PCM being more "exciting" but I prefer the timbre and tone density of 256DSD upsampled with the ASDM7EC modulator - gauss-long fitter. 

 

In fact I like this whole combo so much, I'm going to sell off the rest of my vinyl that isn't like an heirloom treasure to me, as I honestly can't see playing it anytime soon. No need.

[toddrhodes]

What sort of realistic situation would exist where the difference between 115 and 130 dB DR could be realized? Considering room noise floor - methinks you'd destroy your hearing before that could be "heard."

[toddrhodes]

Color me a little confused here. I've always understood PCM to be 6 db louder than DSD, all else equal. 

 

I use HQ Player and I generally upsample to DSD 256. Using a volume range on HQP of -55 to -4 dB, I find a comfortable listening level at about -28. "Loud" on most tracks is -20. "Wake up my wife" is -15. 

 

I decided to try out NOS PCM mode (and I've also tried upsampled PCM via HQP as well, no change) and "loud" is way up at -8 dB on the HQP volume control. DSD output is substantially louder than PCM and I'm not quite sure why.

 

I can ask this in the HQP software thread if need be, but wondered if anyone else had anything similar to report with May + HQP. 

[toddrhodes]

I will give it a shot - the HQP PC that feeds my NAA is a headless setup so I need to get logged into it with a terminal to see if that could be it. Definitely seems reasonable!

[toddrhodes]

Well this is even weirder... I took a look at the settings and just saw outputs for S/PDIF (motherboard) and monitor sound. Both were at 100%. So I went and plugged May in directly to the PC and viewed the USB output both in Windows and in the Holo ASIO driver control panel - everything set to 100%.

 

Then I took a listen and it's definitely back to what I'd expect - PCM is about 6 dB louder than DSD. Listening to the same album I had on in DSD - ...and Justice for All - and had it at -18 dB on DSD, and it's *loud* now in PCM at -28 dB or thereabouts.

 

So for right now, either my adjustments (I played with the sliders, setting them back to 100) "took" or something is up with Zen Stream in NAA PCM mode, I think?

 

Either way, direct from HQ Player PC --> PCM --> May is not quieter than DSD.

 

Thanks for the nudge @GoldenOne!