HOLO Audio MAY DAC

[MichaelHiFi]

On 1/25/2021 at 2:44 PM, Diavolo said:

Found it.  😁 LMAO 

 

I like the idea. I tried using my kids lego parts from a kit he's building on my monitors, but he got mad.

 

To be honest though, I remember using a similar material on our line arrays many many moons ago to tame all those neo 8 tweeters. 

 

I pulled the trigger on the May DAC KTE. This thread has me excited. So much great information here. Thanks guys (and ladies?)

 

[MichaelHiFi]

Looking to feed the May properly I'm looking at many options. 

 

My current setup is the Lindemann Musicbook DSD25 fed by a uRendu which is fed by a etheregen all custom built Cat7 that sources a Small Green computer linux based system using an enormous 12 volt power supply. I'm a Roon (ruined) guy. 

 

I have 2 systems. My main system is stuck in a bad room. I don't expect the May DAC to fix my room. We will move to a home with a basement that will be suitable for a "this is it I'm done" system which I'm putting together (of course we're never really done are we). So the May may float between 2 rooms (2 systems).

 

I'm feeling Diavolo's system and his approach. We may land the same speakers, the Tektons as well. My wife had a love affair with the line arrays and the Texton might satiate her audio desire. 

 

Given the love shown here for HQP, my low powered linux box wouldn't have the horsepower for the capabilities of the May. We were looking at the Zen or Zenith servers and the Aurender too, but decided there's a better lower cost solution. I can build a server or buy a preconfigured one.

 

Tim from Kitzuni uses a computer and the Itona 3.0 along with the associated USB cable. This is what he recommends, that is, the Itona and USB cable they sell. 

 

Along with the May, I've got a Kinki M1+ on the way for pre/power amp duties. My other 3 amps are a Nord class D, a AS12200 based ice module and a BMC S1 AB that is in need of repair. Anyone fix amps? Anyone know anyone? Been busted for years.

 

Congrats to all of you on your newly acquired Mays!

[MichaelHiFi]

I've certainly thought about the OpticalRendu. I mean I could go ethernet-optical out of a computer to optical-ethernet in to the etherRegen, but that seems overkill. I mean I break one power source then add another at the end, the etherRegen which works very well on the Lindemann. I could simply keep the etherRegen for Lindemann USB audio on my second system...

 

Costs can add up exponentially. I still need to purchase a USB cable and those go from $1 to $1000 in a femtosecond.

 

I don't need a fanless computer if I use optical (or even ethernet of course) if it's in another room which was in a former setup. Optical cables don't care to much about distance. Cat7 maybe so.

 

I'm sorry, what is a "NAA"?

[MichaelHiFi]

When I started down the digital streaming path, which was early (and I still have my modded Squeezebox 3) I thought I knew something. After reading through this thread, I don't know much anymore. A lot of catching up to do I suppose.

 

Going USB, we start at the computer which outputs a data stream in whatever format we choose based upon software. And if we choose to use intensive algorithms to upsample/convert our data streams we need processing power. 

 

Question is this, why would it matter what power supply I use on the computer end if one ultimately uses fiber to send data to whatever device is downstream? Would a potentially noisy PS at the computer end pollute the data stream? I ask this because the power supply(s) is one of the costliest parts of our stream(s).

 

I use a Core PS for my linux Small Green computer. I custom built a cable that feeds the computer from the PS, so I really attempt to give my system every advantage. As it relates to the May, it seems the designer being the audio conscious type, really did a great job and nearly eliminating noise at the USB input. 

[MichaelHiFi]

Now that I've ordered a Holo May DAC, my next step it appears is to either procure or build-it-myself music server. I prefer to DIY as I spent my adult life building computers for home use. I like doing that.

 

It seems that in order to get the most from May KTE edition, one needs a quiet computer, quiet in my case is less generated noise, not room noise from fans. My server would not be in same room as my audio system.

 

I've been poking around on the web and noted many solutions for fanless computers. And it appears that fans aside from generating noise in the environment, generate noise on the bus which can affect SQ. Also noted that fanless computers that say use a i9-9900KF have a hard time when using the HQP high bit rate Holo May can generate.

 

This might sound crazy but thinking outside the box, what if I built a fanless computer/server but used fans to cool this beast with its own DC supply plugged into a wall outlet? I mean, say 4 or 6 fans mounted on a frame, directly cooling the MB and CPU with whatever fanless CPU cooler built for i9? 

 

Also noted the small form factor for many music servers. I absolutely hate small form factor cases. Big hands. 

 

Sorry if I'm posting in a Holo May thread a computer server build but I think it's relevant here. Please correct if I'm wrong. I'll post elsewhere.

 

Thanks

[MichaelHiFi]

Does anyone know if the Holo May DAC provides its own power on the USB input? I'm looking at buying a USB cable built by Bill Dion (Grannyring) that has no power. He has 2 flavors, a doublesmoked and a  helix designed... forgot that flavor.

[MichaelHiFi]

I did email Tim. No reply yet but I imagine between holiday and possibly orders pouring in, it will take longer than usual. 

 

No problem, I can wait.

[MichaelHiFi]

I finally received an email  from Tim. 

So to be honest, from what I understand, the 5 volts is needed for the handshake. I guess that answers my question. Bill (grannyring) is building me a cable (double smoked) for the May.

 

Now I need a server, or what I really want to do is build a server.

[MichaelHiFi]

15 hours ago, barrows said:

If there is no current being drawn by the DAC on the 5 VDC USB power, it should not have any possibility of "disrupting" the data lints anyway.  Also, if one uses a really good USB source, one should not have nay concerns RE a DAC which does use the USB power.  As long as thta power is clean (as it should be with a good USB source) then there are no worries.  In fact, when a DAC uses the USB power to power its USB receiver section, it improves the isolation possible between the critical DAC circuitry and the USB receiver.

 

I guess that means I didn't and even perhaps shouldn't have had the USB cable being constructed for me to have USB power on it. It was a question I asked Tim but never received an answer. Maybe it really doesn't matter if USB is isolated in the DAC anyway. 

 

I wonder then when I build my music server, if adding the JCAT USB PCI card isn't a waste of money?

[MichaelHiFi]

Sweet Ipost. Well thought out system IMO. 

 

Will be real interesting to here your May DAC playing (ultimately) through the ATC's. I had the ATC's for awhile and really enjoyed them. I owned so damn many speakers and the ATC's still stand out as a neutral conveyor of music. 

 

I'm hopeful that I'll see my May before May. Wait, kidding, maybe end of March, although I'm upgrading my stereo. But it's costing us ~450K dollars.

[MichaelHiFi]

My $450K reference was to a new home that has a basement. And in that basement is a room dedicated to audio. Soundproof, radiant heat, dedicated circuits, floating walls, finally a room that I can call safe audio space. And it will be 2 channel only, no more sharing duties with HT. 

 

The May will anchor the digital end along with a room server I'm designing, maybe with the help of folks here.

[MichaelHiFi]

15 minutes ago, lpost said:

Muchas gracias

 

To date I have kept my audio addiction spend to roughly 10% of your spend. My heirs will be happy. Is that all equipment or are you building a room?

 

I downsized to a single-level 1300sq. ft. home 5 years ago and lost my dedicated space. But with the very sophisticated DSP (HQPe, HAF convolution and Room Shaper) the ATC sing exceedingly well in my living room space of 18'x14'x8' on the long wall. I replaced the caps and resistors in the filter network and was astonished at the increase in resolution and yet still zero fatigue. ATC knows how to make drivers, but cheaped out on the parts...though to be fair this NOT an expensive speaker.

I understand completely. I completely rebuilt my Usher Towers. Jantzen Superiors, Dueland wire, mills resistors, air coils, WBT's direct connections to mid, uppers. Now they are beautiful inside and out ;)

 

And still, in order to get the best, I had to run them through Dirac Live on my NAD M17 V2. But a strange this happened. I procured a Kinki Studio M1+. It sounded dreadful of course through the break-in period. It opened up but using my best cord it had a serious bump in the upper bass. Changed cord, bump gone. So transparent now using my Lindemann DSD, I wonder why I ordered the May.

 

Perhaps I'll know why in a few months...

[MichaelHiFi]

This is from Tim in case anyone wishes to know Tim's thoughts regarding how to feed the May.   "Michael, Imo, I’m not a fan of the Ethernet solution and is overly complicated adding latency to the loop no matter what one would claim. Usb direct is perfectly fine. Especially if using proper cable and length of cable. Our usb module is superb and delivers excellent performance"   So, I'm going to build a fanless server for the May using whatever i9900 processor MB folks recommend in this forum.   I don't see value in an overly complicated solution. This is coming from someone who overly complicates solutions. 🤔 I've been running the USB input of my Lindemann for years using the Small Green Computer married to a massive power supply in which I handmade silver cables which takes power from the wall using a high end receptacle which sits on an Adona rack where incense is burned 24-7. The ethernet cable is handmade and is connected directly to a Motorola 8600 modem (reputed to be the best sounding) which then runs to the Etheregen, then out on the B "moat" side. Now this feeds the Lindemann through is RJ45 because my uRendu is bricked. So, no USB input for the time being. No Roon. I miss Roon dearly. But the Lindemann has a built-in server so music flows and is so quiet yet so dynamic lately, as the new Kinki M1+ burns in, I have to wonder about my incense...

[MichaelHiFi]

2 hours ago, oneguy said:

Interested in answer to above question too. I bought a May KTE as I was moving to Japan. I’ve had it for about 3 weeks but the rest of my gear and belongings don’t get delivered to me until Monday so I’m forced to look at the wonderful May for 2 more days and not listen to it. 

You taking Monday off? ;)

[MichaelHiFi]

1 hour ago, Hiker said:

I’m about to order the May KTE , I have asked a set of questions to the dealer in the US and haven’t received a reply yet .

One question I have does the May dac need a vbus powered USB cable ? 
Thank you 

 

1 hour ago, Hiker said:

I’m about to order the May KTE , I have asked a set of questions to the dealer in the US and haven’t received a reply yet .

One question I have does the May dac need a vbus powered USB cable ? 
Thank you 

Hi Hiker,

 

I asked this question and this is what I got from Tim regarding USB and power. It's a bit cryptic to me but it looks like you do not need to carry the 5 volts through the USB cable. Others are welcome to correct me.

 

"Michael,
Correct. This is only used for a handshake.
So there is no need to use a cable without it. Since the voltage ripple from the power never will reach the dac. A
Standard usb cable is highly recommended.
And if you want a zero compromise usb cable than I highly highly highly recommend the intona usb cables we sell. The premium trade or reference grade are as good as it gets.

Super tight impedance specs of 1.8ohms+\- for premium grade or 88.2-91.8ohM range. Super super tight. Better than 99.9% of audio grade usb cables already.
The reference is even better at 0.8Ohms +\- or 89.2-90.8 ohm. This is ideal for highly sensitive measurement gear and a bit overkill for audio, but it’s a no compromises solution without a doubt."
 

 

 

 

[MichaelHiFi]

Now it makes sense to me. Glad I bought a USB cable that carries the 5 volts!

[MichaelHiFi]

I'm going to use a Kinki Studio M1+ as an integrated then using the Kinki as a preamp using my BMC-S1 as the amp. Will be a good comparo.  I've got a few HQ class D amps as well including a Nord MK 2 using the NC500's.

Amp rolling.

 

What I'm really struggling with is a music server build. I've read the 77 page DIY build report in this forum. So damn much great information it has given me many idea's. Last night while laying awake, I thought perhaps if I could get away with a 12ft long USB cable, I could build a high power music server for the May outside of the audio room I'm having built. May with HQP and certain NAA modes want power. I'm trying to avoid the costs and compromises associated with a fanless server. I'm pretty sure however that a long USB cable is a bad idea.

 

 

[MichaelHiFi]

Got my May as well. Congrats people!

 

DAC's are fun and interesting to burn in, especially within the first hour or two. The May was no different. Initially I thought yes, loads of detail, notes trailed off, a league better than the Lindemann although stage was flat which was to be expected with no time on it. So I listened and listened and I liked what I heard. I went away for about 30 minutes and sat, grabbed the tablet and picked up some very familiar songs from one of my playlists. It was sounding better and I was thinking "this could be very good".

 

My wife joined me as I started playing some of our favorite songs (this what about hour mark - maybe). The May started coming around (scared of my wife and should be, she's tough and very opinionated when it comes to evaluating gear) and she just sat and listened. 

 

About the 3rd or 4th song in after she joined me the May simply opened like a flower. As it opened my wife mentioned "this is good, wow". A few songs later she got inspired to listen to the first songs we tried when she sat down. In maybe the span of twenty minutes the May became wildly good. She was listening intently and was simply amazed not so much with what the May was doing but what the speakers were doing!!! I was fearful of the driving exploding forward out of the cabinet and hitting me straight in the forehead. My wife can TURN IT UP. It's hard to capture her attention over the years due to having owned some pretty damn great systems and she reminds me of this often enough. But we were listening to speakers I built from a kit (Danny Richie's Studio Monitors) and while I thought they were OK (after a very lengthy burn-in) they absolutely feasted on Kinki power and May digital. Admittedly, the Triode Labs Obsession PC cable on the Kinki and the LessLoss C-Marc Entropic tethered to the May helped. My wife was really enthused now. We stayed up late and mentioned the sound reminded of of the time we owned a pair of LS6's. These are line arrays of I might say legendary status (in many of my posse's minds anyway). Now she's picturing the Tekton Ulfberht. (not sure if it's a good idea to buy speakers I cannot pronounce nor spell) in our soon to be built audio room. 

 

Beck - The Golden Age from Sea Change simply spread itself throughout the room with instruments occupying space and now becoming more real, more nuanced, present in a way I hadn't heard from a system I've owned for many years. And perhaps the way instruments revealed themselves, I'd never heard better. Joan of Arc from Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat is a recording we would test regularly with gear we'd just purchase. In this song we have Jennifer and I believe Leonard Cohen sing in a duet. With the May you could hear the body of Leonard through his voice. Notes would trail off but not in an unnatural way. Radiohead's Videotape. Wholly crap! Thom Yorke's voice was so real in the room and the bands electronica or whatever the hell goes on in their studio is just a musical revaluation (not that it wasn't before) it was drug like. We couldn't get enough. On went Sarah Brightman Dreamchaser, a recording I thought sort of sucked. My wife would drag that CD to many audio shows and force the organizers to cue it up and admittedly, there were a few times it sounded pretty good. With the May in play, it took this recording to a new level. This recording can become a mess when Sarah starts singing her chorus while there is so much else going on around her, she just gets lost in their mix. Not with the May. It somehow managed to keep her in the song while conveying other essential pieces of the music. Even the bass sounded good in my room which sucks for bass. Neil Youngs Borrowed Tune from Tonight's the Night was just spooky. His voice on this album showed so much of what was happening in his barn, the death of the friend, stoned and drunk, mournful, his harmonica so right (I know, I have an harmonica ;). If you guys don't own this album, I just don't know what to say, you missed it.

 

Sorry for so much waxing philosophical, but I'm pretty jazzed with this DAC. There will be a battle coming within the end of the year. May DAC in one corner, Rega P10 in the other.

 

At this point the May is being fed from a NAS Synology DS216 networked, A Small Green Computer tethered to a Core Power supply all connected with Supra CAT cables leading to an EtherRegan with wall-wart (yes, no LPS, a $5 wall-wart) leading to a uRendu USB cable double smoked BBQ from Bill to May. Server showing up on Thursday, HDPlex 300W LPS showing up only God knows when and a dedicated Audio room showing up early this summer. 

 

Thanks to the members of this forum for pointing me back to the road of computer audio.

and I thought I was a detail freak...

 

 

[MichaelHiFi]

You know, I really like this post. 

 

When going through my music collection, I often get side tracked playing tracks on what to listen to when comparing... tracks. I mean I have my old standards but bilboda touched on something rather simple, a tambourine. I use Neil Youngs harmonica and his voice often enough and of course many other recordings but so often I struggle to get a good picture of what I'm hearing overall. And for me, it's just a crap shoot. Only continued listen between my wife and I had determined what sounded good over the course of time.

 

Looking forward to playing with the May and all its goodies.

[MichaelHiFi]

This is a computer audiophilestyle forum so my post may be out of place, but I'm here listening to my May DAC KTE and F-it, I'll share an experience my wife and I had a few minutes ago. 

 

We've been enjoying this DAC for a few weeks now so maybe a 100 hours or better. At the same time I've acquired some pretty damn fine power cables (for me anyway), and today, I assembled a Furutech DPS 4.1 with the F series NCF connectors. I was thinking of wearing this cable as a necklace in downtown Las Vegas as it's bling compliant.

 

I replaced the Triode Labs Obsession's cable with the Furutech on my Kinki Studio M1+. The LessLoss C-Marc is plugged into the May from the Furutech NCF receptacle. Dedicated circuit cryo'd 10awg FWIW.

 

What happened? I'm nearly at a loss for words. I was listening to track after track and amazed at the clarity, the depth, the absolute quite that is allowing me to experience it seems, the intent of the music. While cooking dinner, music was playing in the adjacent room and Neil Young's "Cortez The Killer" queued up. I ha d to cease eating as something was going on in our stereo room. I sat down and listened. WTF? The song finished and I asked my wife to listen to this song. She likes Neil Young, maybe more from respect as I don't remember her ever actually queuing up his music voluntarily, but she sat with me and I returned to the beginning of the song.

 

I've listening to this song 1 million times maybe. It's on my desert island playlist. But listening tonight had taken me to another realm. The tone and clarity, the silence between notes and the textures were extraordinary. I was moved to tears, I was inside the song, I was hearing Neil play his guitar in a different light, something had seriously changed. Music flowed around us, and when the song had finished I looked at my wife, her face was wet with tears. It was one of those rare moments when music had taken us completely out from our routine state of mind to a place of rapture. 

 

What is really damning is the speakers I'm listening through I built as a kit for $1K dollars. We will be doing some serious upgrading after the audio room is built but... damn. I'm forever a student as this hobby. So 55 years at it, I discovered a DAC, a frickin DAC can upgrade every component in ones system it seems. Now I know about DACs, I've probably easily owned more than 10 of them. Not like this one. But always be mindful of power, and especially power cables. My speakers had no business playing that loud and with the clarity they exhibited. Ridiculous.

 

My wife is a therapist. She understands the importance of music as a tool to relieve stress and to commune with what ever higher spirit one wishes to believe in, and whatever genre you connect to to get you there. To keep it "May" like, wow does this tool work for us.

[MichaelHiFi]

2 hours ago, Diavolo said:

You don't own them, you've never heard them, your opionion is pretty devoid of relevance. I actually own hqplayer and it sounds no different audibly to not using it at all.  Meanwhile, Tekton Design has rave reviews by thousands of owners and a 3 month wait list. 

You mean I'll need to wait 3 months for the Ulfberhts?

Damn, better get my order in. Still haven't decided color and whether I should add the single Beryllium tweeter. 

 

To stay on topic we have this feeling the May with all its capabilities, the Kinki, and the Tektons in a dedicated room could be something very special.

[MichaelHiFi]

Feels like everything I wish to buy in the audio world, is or has been on back order, wish is OK. I like to see performance audio in a renaissance even if it seems to me, music isn't.

 

Wife tells me to get those Tekton's ordered! Yes Ma'am ;) Hope they'll take a deposit...

[MichaelHiFi]

Finally, my music server is up and running - with HQPlayer no less. I struggled mightily with 2 other computers and never got HQP to work.

 

I'm simply in awe at what is coming out of my speakers except that nothing is coming out of my speakers, music is simply there. Separation, layering and detail in abundance but there's something else. Beauty. The music sounds beautiful. Not sure I've ever used that adjective describing the sound of music in an audio system. And between the speaker and power cables that I've borrowed from my buddy, it seems my "bad" room isn't bad anymore. The bass bloat has been fixed. In fact the texture I'm experiencing in the low notes is simply the best I've ever heard.

 

So where am I at?

I've performed NO adjustments in HQP. Don't even know where to start.

I received my HDPlex 300 watt power supply It was DOA. So I'm using a Dell power brick.

I'm using a USB cable straight out of the server with a few year old SoTM USB card sitting on my table.

My EtherRegen won't deliver network from the B-side moat.

I put my music on a Samsung pci-e SSD drive in a USB input.

My urendu is sitting on the table with my USB card.

I've got a Synergistic orange fuse coming tomorrow for the Kinki

 

So I think there might be some improvement, but I can't imagine what that might look like...

[MichaelHiFi]

I've got a miniDSP sitting on my garage table. I'm looking to sell but I also have 2 SW260 subs sitting silent as well. Trouble is, my system with the May is producing amazing bass coming from the 11" Eaton drivers which are part of my Usher Towers. Guess I'll hang on to it a bit longer.

[MichaelHiFi]

Sorry folks, I have to say that last night listening was simply amazing. I did one further tweak adding a Synergistic fuse to my integrated. Fancy fuse or no fancy fuse, after one song for 15 minutes I was laughing so hard, my wife and 10 year old thought I had lost it. They sat down and it was game on.

 

Jack Johnson - Rodeo Clowns; Music was coming at me in ways I thought not possible. My setting was NOS but when I switch to OS I get a tighter more focused image. I left it at NOS. This song set about my hysterical laughter. My 10 year took control and queued up The Stones - Ruby Tuesday. A very good choice as often times folks get focused on reference recordings and forget about some good old yesteryear tunes. It was the same familiar song, not altered to the point of changed, a good sign, and we were all singing Ruby Tuesday, immersed in the melody while still being aware of an idea of being in the studio. Jr then queued Coldplay's Paradise. The sheer size of this recording was astonishing. Not a reference recording by any means but the May sort of forced reference on you. Death Cab for Cutie - Title and Registration. I love this song but last night it was a new connection emotionally. There's much more information and bandwidth but the May does not detract from the emotional connection to the song. I thought then, lets really challenge the May. U2. 

 

It was 1983, I'm driving back from a ski trip with a carload full of friends. A song came on the radio, After about 15 seconds I told everyone to be quiet and listen to this song. I didn't know who it was but I caught the words 'New Years day'. Took my 6 months to discover what group played that song. Last night I queued up that song. It wasn't right. It was a typical flat sounding U2 recording but a brilliant song. I switched the May to DSD and that turned that crappy recording into magic. I've been finding it interesting that the I actually use the various filters on the May, not just focused on one. My wife likes OS, Jr likes NOS because he often points out sounds coming from well outside the speakers. Jr can really get into it when he's feeling it as seen in this video.

 

I've been going Dac to amplifiers for years, up until I bought the Kinki Studio M1+, a relatively modest outlay of cash. I wanted the Luxman 900 series amp, preamp but for $3K and the ability to roll opamps I said WTF. It's popular and I can easily sell it. Not anytime soon. I've built countless systems over the 55 years and I'm not done yet. I am holding the May DAC in high esteem, maybe best audio purchase ever. And now I need to get acquainted with HQP, its settings and is it possible to extract more goodness from the May?