Perception of vertically separated sound sources in the median plane

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, Jud said:

It is correct that height *information* is not recorded or reproduced. Nevertheless, it's well known that a recording can provide an *impression* of height (and depth). See https://theproaudiofiles.com/width-height-depth-in-a-mix/

 

The impression of height, you may (correctly) say, is a false one, a kind of distortion. That's true. Why then should anyone have an objection to including correct, accurate height information in recordings?

I'm not objecting to the recording and reproduction of height information. However, with currently available methods, I do not find the expense and inconvenience justified. Since a simple left-right spread covers the vast majority of music (as performed), I'd rather spend my money on a single pair of good speakers than a dozen of lesser quality. Even if Pink Floyd benefits from surround sound. If speakers could be made smaller and cheaper without sacrificing sound quality, I might prioritise differently.

 

Then again:

[semente]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

It is correct that height *information* is not recorded or reproduced. Nevertheless, it's well known that a recording can provide an *impression* of height (and depth). See https://theproaudiofiles.com/width-height-depth-in-a-mix/

 

The impression of height, you may (correctly) say, is a false one, a kind of distortion. That's true. Why then should anyone have an objection to including correct, accurate height information in recordings?

The angle has to be significantly wider than what you capture in a live recording.

You coul pan vertically with a 4 channel mix.

[Jud]

14 minutes ago, mansr said:

I’m not objecting to the recording and reproduction of height information. However, with currently available methods, I do not find the expense and inconvenience justified.

Agreed. I said as much earlier in the thread. I’m curious to see whether progress will be made along these lines in the future. There are helicopter and airplane sounds on Pink Floyd albums (and on The Beatles’ “Back in the USSR” from 1968, for that matter). Some artists might think it would be nice to have those sorts of sounds coming from overhead. (Or perhaps the “bird” flute part in Peter and the Wolf.)

[StephenJK]

5 hours ago, mansr said:

I'm saying that stereo recording doesn't capture height information, and neither does stereo playback reproduce it. What you or anyone else expects is neither here nor there.

Then I suppose it’s all down to the hardware used for playback. I find it interesting how with that same hardware how the soundstage will change from one recording to another. 
 

i recorded a number of the RCA Red Seal mono LPs recently along with a number of FFRR and FFSS titles. It really comes down to the recording, presuming you have the hardware to, uh, you know - make it sound goodly. 

[mansr]

28 minutes ago, SJK said:

Then I suppose it’s all down to the hardware used for playback.

Does a reflective ceiling count as hardware?

[sandyk]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 6:24 PM, Fokus said:

 

Of course. Dummy head recordings are explicitly made to be used with headphones. It won't work otherwise (*).

 

And even with headphones you have to be lucky to get a decent match between the dummy and your own ears.

 

 

(* There might be schemes and attempts, but these are not mainstream.)

 

 That is not correct, as can be seen on the bottom left of the front cover of the attached from Chesky Records

I suspect that they know far more about Binaural, and recording in general,  than the vast majority of members here.

 

[mansr]

23 minutes ago, sandyk said:

That is not correct, as can be seen on the bottom left of the front cover of the attached from Chesky Records

I suspect that they know far more about Binaural, and recording in general,  than the vast majority of members here.

I'm disappointed with the Chesky binaural recordings. Their earlier method gave better results.

[semente]

1 hour ago, SJK said:

Then I suppose it’s all down to the hardware used for playback. I find it interesting how with that same hardware how the soundstage will change from one recording to another. 
 

i recorded a number of the RCA Red Seal mono LPs recently along with a number of FFRR and FFSS titles. It really comes down to the recording, presuming you have the hardware to, uh, you know - make it sound goodly. 

 

Deviations from flat, phase anomalies, wide dispersion, side-wall proximity, absence of toe-in, harmonic distortion, many factors can "enhance" the soundstage effect.

[sandyk]

8 minutes ago, mansr said:

I'm disappointed with the Chesky binaural recordings. Their earlier method gave better results.

 Obviously, not all systems will show Binaural recordings at their best.

It is likely to be highly system dependent, with the quality of the speakers used and their positioning in the room the key factor.

My own speakers in the current room can't do justice to material like this compared with a previous address with a larger and well optimised room.

[semente]

You should try something like this:

 

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Deviations from flat, phase anomalies, wide dispersion, side-wall proximity, absence of toe-in, harmonic distortion, many factors can "enhance" the soundstage effect.

 

In my experience it is more likely they will DEGRADE the soundstage effect which is why all my DIY gear has much wider Bandwidth ,very high channel separation and lower noise than most commercial systems. 

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, semente said:

You should try something like this:

 

 No, you should try something like this :

[semente]

11 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 No, you should try something like this :

 

 

Not that I wouldn't love to listen to BD's system but I was referring to binaural recordings; in that case a partition helps somewhat.

[StephenJK]

15 hours ago, semente said:

 

Deviations from flat, phase anomalies, wide dispersion, side-wall proximity, absence of toe-in, harmonic distortion, many factors can "enhance" the soundstage effect.

Absolutely, my comment wasn’t meant to be inclusive. I was merely suggesting that without a decent system there isn’t much point looking for a decent soundstage, and perhaps that being a reason why it isn’t important to some.