Simple power strips/conditioners?

[Mike Rubin]

We are converting part of our garage into a guest bedroom and den, so I have been assembling a small audio/video system.  I have four outlets on the wall where I am going to put the system, but that's not nearly enough to connect everything that needs power.  (I figure that I have to connect a tv, a cable box, a Blu-ray player, an integrated amp/DAC, and three, maybe four or five, switching and linear power supplies for ultraRendu, Logitech Harmony hub, FMC's, and small network switch, all contained in a small cabinet.)  

 

Something like a PS Audio Dectet would seem to provide connectivity without much sound degradation, but it costs $500 and I don't want to spend that much if there are cheaper non-destructive alternatives available.  This, at $169, is at a more attractive price, but there's nothing in the audio press or forums about it:

 

https://www.amazon.com/AC-Power-Filter-Conditioner-Protector/dp/B00XWL2VVK/ref=sr_1_17?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0Kavh-e95gIVEdRkCh3KeQ6KEAAYASAAEgJrevD_BwE&hvadid=214110138900&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031961&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=666541021370743666&hvtargid=kwd-337252635778&hydadcr=18913_9698567&keywords=audiophile+power+strip&qid=1576624276&sr=8-17

 

Anyone have experience with this or anything remotely like it?   

 

Other low-end alternatives are from Pangaea, Furman, Belkin, and Audioquest, but not all of them are intended specifically for audio-video.  Some also include power conditioning, but, candidly, I am skeptical of the quality of conditioning in this price range and might just prefer a multi-outlet device that doesn't add its own noise.  (The power from the wall is from rooftop solar most of the year and is over new wiring, so it should be pretty clean to start.)

 

What are you folks using?  

 

 

[Ralf11]

Tripp-Lite - many options for power conditioning (not saying you need it or don't*) get a Topaz or go Balanced

 

* but I will point out that the DC>AC convertors used in PV are notorious for putting hash on the line...

 

you likely do most listening at night, so the PV will be off at that time

 

do you have an automated switch that connects to utility power when the PV is off?

[Racerxnet]

If your building the room (your first part of the sentence) why not install several 2 gang boxes with Hubbell-Wiring HBL8300I receptacles. Looks like your making it harder than need be. If the power is clean, what is the concern from the inverter?

 

MAK

[Mike Rubin]

10 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Tripp-Lite - many options for power conditioning (not saying you need it or don't*) get a Topaz or go Balanced

 

* but I will point out that the DC>AC convertors used in PV are notorious for putting hash on the line...

 

you likely do most listening at night, so the PV will be off at that time

 

do you have an automated switch that connects to utility power when the PV is off?

Thank you, Ralf.  I will look at the Tripp stuff.  I didn’t realize that it’s a consumer application product line.  Thought it primarily is for office IT use.  
 

Hmmm. We have two massive, industrial-grade inverters alongside the house.  Hadn’t heard they are noisy, but, if they are, that suggests that this bedroom system deserves power conditioning like my main one has.

 

 I am retired, so probably will listen as much or more in the daytime.  
 

We get power from the grid when the PV isn’t producing everything we use.  (No PV storage batteries in this system.)

[Mike Rubin]

5 minutes ago, Racerxnet said:

If your building the room (your first part of the sentence) why not install several 2 gang boxes with Hubbell-Wiring HBL8300I receptacles. Looks like your making it harder than need be. If the power is clean, what is the concern from the inverter?

 

MAK

Good call.  I should have asked for more receptacles, but the electrician long ago came and went, and my contractor has sealed and painted the walls.
 

I did have enough foresight to add a recessed receptacle high enough on the wall that is ideal if I mount the TV rather than just use it on a stand.  Thinking about that now, I probably can use that receptacle for the TV even if it ends up being used on its stand.

[Ralf11]

just try the most demanding music on PV power & on utility power to compare - do it blind (use wife) and as close together in time as you can

 

Amazon has Tripp-Lites - get the simple ones with no MOVs inside

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

just try the most demanding music on PV power & on utility power to compare - do it blind (use wife) and as close together in time as you can

 

Amazon has Tripp-Lites - get the simple ones with no MOVs inside

 The fast response of an MOV can often prevent severe flashover such as across the Primary and secondary of a transformer, but these types of protection should be replaced occasionally, especially in storm prone areas.

[Speedskater]

I would go with industrial/commercial brands like Tripp-Lite, Belkin & APC.

* * * * * * * * *

and make sure that it has the proper safety agencies sticker.

[phusis]

On 12/18/2019 at 12:41 AM, Mike Rubin said:

What are you folks using?  

 

In the residential area I live there's a power transformer only a few hundred yards away feeding my outlets, and by all accounts the power here is very clean (confirmed by the local electrical power "authorities") and the voltage number is measured to where it should be (i.e.: 230 V/AC). I tried out an isolation transformer over my Media Server (where I lived previously its implementation was successful), but it resulted in a unnatural "flavor" of the sound that quickly led me to dismiss it. I use no additional power or LAN conditioners, or otherwise, as I feel them to somehow intervene unfavorably with the sound. I take it this only points back to the power in my residential area being quite clean; don't fix it if it ain't broken. 

 

In regards to power strips, I don't use any. Had I had a bunch of wall power outlets placed directly behind my stereo equipment the omission of a power strip would've been obvious. I don't have that luxury, though, so instead of a power strip I connect the bare conductor ends of my DIY power cables (lead to lead wire; return to return wire, and ground to ground if such is used) in screw terminals, so that the respective conductor ends meet each other directly with no in-between connectors and alloys, all safely mounted in a small box covering them. My solid core pure copper power cables are twisted to also create an electrical shield of sorts, so no additional shielding is used around them. 

[AudioDoctor]

I use these, zero MOVs inside and they work well.

 

https://zerosurge-com.3dcartstores.com/8R15W-I_p_17.html

[RichB]

Sorry if this sounds like a sales plug, but for the type of A/V system you talked about here by the OP, I use AudioQuest PowerQuest conditioners....   there are two models which are $200 (PowerQuest 2) and $300 (PowerQuest 3) - these are designed for A/V systems. I’m using one my self in a TV/Audio set-up (Samsung Plasma, Rega Brio, Cable box, iFi Audio DAC, Apple TV, Oppo Blu Ray, with either Ryan or Mark Audio speakers) and it delivers good sound and video. I have a good friend using PQ2 on his simple Plasma TV/Sonus SoundBar set-up and he tells me the picture quality and sound are better with it over a generic outlet filter/surge strip. The AQ units are designed by AQ’s Garth Powell who designed the buck buck Niagara stuff (which is really good IMO).

 

Another cost effective device are the little iFi Audio AC iPurifiers... ($90 each IIRC) plug a couple of these into a basic though good quality outlet strip (with no filter/surge crap) or DIY your own. These do work... have even heard improvements when plugged into outlets of a old Running Springs power conditioner.

 

[Kimo]

This one is a long time favorite of Naim fans and priced decently.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Wiremold-L10320-Power-Strip-outlets/dp/B00DWIL16O

 

The original legendary Wiremold power strip discovered by Naim Audio North America’s Chris Koster for use in a Naim system. Suited to both Naim’s passive and active systems as well as other high quality component systems due to the close spacing, size and number of outlets. As a result the power outlet connections for all system components are in almost identical electrical, magnetic and acoustic planes even at high frequencies.

[Mike Rubin]

Gentlemen, thanks for the suggestions.

 

Rich, I considered the AudioQuests, but there are a bunch of negative accounts of their effects on sound quality at various dealer sites, so I haven't jumped on them. I will look at them more closely.

 

Kimo, I hadn't hear of Wiremold products before.  I'll look into them. 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, phusis said:

In regards to power strips, I don't use any. Had I had a bunch of wall power outlets placed directly behind my stereo equipment the omission of a power strip would've been obvious. I don't have that luxury, though, so instead of a power strip I connect the bare conductor ends of my DIY power cables (lead to lead wire; return to return wire, and ground to ground if such is used) in screw terminals, so that the respective conductor ends meet each other directly with no in-between connectors and alloys, all safely mounted in a small box covering them. My solid core pure copper power cables are twisted to also create an electrical shield of sorts, so no additional shielding is used around them. 

 

Many 230VAC countries have strict regulations about this kind of thing.

In the event of a fire, even though not due to this, you could find that your Insurance company refuses to pay your claim.

 

[One and a half]

7 hours ago, RichB said:

Sorry if this sounds like a sales plug, but for the type of A/V system you talked about here by the OP, I use AudioQuest PowerQuest conditioners....   there are two models which are $200 (PowerQuest 2) and $300 (PowerQuest 3) - these are designed for A/V systems. I’m using one my self in a TV/Audio set-up (Samsung Plasma, Rega Brio, Cable box, iFi Audio DAC, Apple TV, Oppo Blu Ray, with either Ryan or Mark Audio speakers) and it delivers good sound and video. I have a good friend using PQ2 on his simple Plasma TV/Sonus SoundBar set-up and he tells me the picture quality and sound are better with it over a generic outlet filter/surge strip. The AQ units are designed by AQ’s Garth Powell who designed the buck buck Niagara stuff (which is really good IMO).

 

Another cost effective device are the little iFi Audio AC iPurifiers... ($90 each IIRC) plug a couple of these into a basic though good quality outlet strip (with no filter/surge crap) or DIY your own. These do work... have even heard improvements when plugged into outlets of a old Running Springs power conditioner.

 

Yes the post does sound like a sales pitch, so will most likely receive a warning in due course.

 

i find that a lot of the cheaper power conditioners have too many artefacts and affects the sound negatively, the Monster comes to mind, hey it protects a printer really great.

 

The simplest and best is a Topaz transformer with plain Jane outlets. This keeps the earth in one spot or minimal voltage differences , a good start for star earthing.

 

The Topaz will reduce many k V spikes to nothing, the best HV suppression is best placed at the main panel though, that does the whole house as a bonus.

[One and a half]

8 hours ago, phusis said:

 

In the residential area I live there's a power transformer only a few hundred yards away feeding my outlets, and by all accounts the power here is very clean (confirmed by the local electrical power "authorities") and the voltage number is measured to where it should be (i.e.: 230 V/AC). I tried out an isolation transformer over my Media Server (where I lived previously its implementation was successful), but it resulted in a unnatural "flavor" of the sound that quickly led me to dismiss it. I use no additional power or LAN conditioners, or otherwise, as I feel them to somehow intervene unfavorably with the sound. I take it this only points back to the power in my residential area being quite clean; don't fix it if it ain't broken. 

 

In regards to power strips, I don't use any. Had I had a bunch of wall power outlets placed directly behind my stereo equipment the omission of a power strip would've been obvious. I don't have that luxury, though, so instead of a power strip I connect the bare conductor ends of my DIY power cables (lead to lead wire; return to return wire, and ground to ground if such is used) in screw terminals, so that the respective conductor ends meet each other directly with no in-between connectors and alloys, all safely mounted in a small box covering them. My solid core pure copper power cables are twisted to also create an electrical shield of sorts, so no additional shielding is used around them. 

On the face of this description, the intent is very good, but unless the cables are clamped to avoid movement and a pile of other rules, the installation doesn’t comply in any country.

 

There are ways around to wire as intended, but needs some professional attention.

[charlesphoto]

Wiremold L10320, but looks like somebody beat me to it. You can easily add a better plug to it. 

[phusis]

10 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Many 230VAC countries have strict regulations about this kind of thing.

In the event of a fire, even though not due to this, you could find that your Insurance company refuses to pay your claim.

 

 

3 hours ago, One and a half said:

On the face of this description, the intent is very good, but unless the cables are clamped to avoid movement and a pile of other rules, the installation doesn’t comply in any country.

 

There are ways around to wire as intended, but needs some professional attention.

 

Sorry if implicitly I came across with a "You need to try this out at home, folks"-attitude, because what you both point out is valid; such an installation, without professional assistance, would likely be deemed illegal. My only real concern though using this rustic method of power cable connection isn't rooted in its potential hazard, but rather a potential insurance issue in the event of a fire, even though that fire wouldn't have been initiated by said installation. Suffice to say that my actual implementation of this connection method feels absolutely sound, also being that an electrical technician/radio mechanic friend has overseen it (and uses it himself).

 

What I am sick and tired of is the sought (monetary) hierarchy not only of accessories, where if you really want the sonically best connection there's this and that uber-expensive solution of strips, conditioners, connectors etc. that is most if not any manufacturers wet dream to promote and live of - gimme a effing break. Perhaps there's a middle ground to be found here with a bare bones, sturdy and low(er) cost power strip with no filtering that would to do job without perceivable loss of SQ compared at least to my own DIY solution. I've actually thought about that for a while now, and should any of you guys be aware of such and can recommend it, I'm all ears. 

[One and a half]

On 12/18/2019 at 12:17 PM, sandyk said:

 The fast response of an MOV can often prevent severe flashover such as across the Primary and secondary of a transformer, but these types of protection should be replaced occasionally, especially in storm prone areas.

Ah just thought about a MOV that doesn't have enough rating and ends up creating more carbon.  

[fas42]

7 hours ago, phusis said:

 

What I am sick and tired of is the sought (monetary) hierarchy not only of accessories, where if you really want the sonically best connection there's this and that uber-expensive solution of strips, conditioners, connectors etc. that is most if not any manufacturers wet dream to promote and live of - gimme a effing break. Perhaps there's a middle ground to be found here with a bare bones, sturdy and low(er) cost power strip with no filtering that would to do job without perceivable loss of SQ compared at least to my own DIY solution. I've actually thought about that for a while now, and should any of you guys be aware of such and can recommend it, I'm all ears. 

 

The audio community lives and breathes on a fascination with Goldberg add-ons - why actually solve an issue, when you can have endless fun and entertainment, from playing with a huge array of shiny bits and pieces? 😉

 

Solid ground, rather than just middle ground, should be the goal - be able to plug your gear into any socket, no matter how crappy, and have the system run on mains power as dirty and noisy as the electricity producers can muster - with zero audible impact. Otherwise, we are still living as if in the early years of aviation - go outside, feel the wind on your finger ... "Sorry, folks, no flights today! ... it's not calm enough .. "

[One and a half]

9 hours ago, phusis said:

 

 

Sorry if implicitly I came across with a "You need to try this out at home, folks"-attitude, because what you both point out is valid; such an installation, without professional assistance, would likely be deemed illegal. My only real concern though using this rustic method of power cable connection isn't rooted in its potential hazard, but rather a potential insurance issue in the event of a fire, even though that fire wouldn't have been initiated by said installation. Suffice to say that my actual implementation of this connection method feels absolutely sound, also being that an electrical technician/radio mechanic friend has overseen it (and uses it himself).

 

What I am sick and tired of is the sought (monetary) hierarchy not only of accessories, where if you really want the sonically best connection there's this and that uber-expensive solution of strips, conditioners, connectors etc. that is most if not any manufacturers wet dream to promote and live of - gimme a effing break. Perhaps there's a middle ground to be found here with a bare bones, sturdy and low(er) cost power strip with no filtering that would to do job without perceivable loss of SQ compared at least to my own DIY solution. I've actually thought about that for a while now, and should any of you guys be aware of such and can recommend it, I'm all ears. 

At the moment I have the parts to make a power spider, essentially one cable in and multiple outs terminated with IEC 320 connectors. Inside the spider is a set of 120-0-120 and 60-0-60 busbars and most important the earth or ground busbar. This keeps the distance of the star point short for all grounds to control ground loops. 
Outgoing cables are secured with glands, so there’s no intermediate connections. In essence this is what you have in a different location. My gear is spread across 4m of cabling distance, so having the distribution in a central location assists.

[marce]

The mains ground connection is a safety earth, the circuit return path is created from the neg side of the bridge rectifier, no protective earth used or needed. And in double insulated equipment is never used.

https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/analogue_circuits/diode-rectifiers/full-wave-bridge-rectifier.php

[Jud]

On 1/26/2020 at 6:29 PM, AudioDoctor said:

I use these, zero MOVs inside and they work well.

 

https://zerosurge-com.3dcartstores.com/8R15W-I_p_17.html

Yes, I have ZeroSurge also and am very happy (no MOVs).

 

Ralf has two good suggestions, avoiding MOVs and avoiding home inverters such as are used with PV. Only the cleanest/most expensive of these are comparable in harmonic distortion to utility power that must have very good numbers there by regulation. Much more distortion comes from inside the home than outside anyway, so you’d likely want some sort of power conditioning regardless.

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

Yes, I have ZeroSurge also and am very happy (no MOVs).

 

Ralf has two good suggestions, avoiding MOVs and avoiding home inverters such as are used with PV. Only the cleanest/most expensive of these are comparable in harmonic distortion to utility power that must have very good numbers there by regulation. Much more distortion comes from inside the home than outside anyway, so you’d likely want some sort of power conditioning regardless.

Jud, that’s the part they don’t tell you about solar.  
 

I am of two minds about MOV’s.  When the local utility turned off the power a few years ago to deal with some tree-powerline interaction, there was a massive surge when it came back online.  I had a cheapish conditioner with MOV’s sacrifice itself to save equipment in my upstairs bedroom TV cabinet, but my expensive non-MOV conditioner took a massive dump along with the expensive (by my standards) equipment it failed to protect.  Ironically, my integrated amp in that system was not connected to that conditioner and it came through without damage. 
 

The unit you recommended is at an appropriate price point for the system it will protect. I am ordering one.  Thanks for the recommendation. 

[marce]

On 12/18/2019 at 12:23 AM, Ralf11 said:

just try the most demanding music on PV power & on utility power to compare - do it blind (use wife) and as close together in time as you can

 

Amazon has Tripp-Lites - get the simple ones with no MOVs inside

Curious as to why no MOV's?