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38 minutes ago, esldude said:

So my suggestion to improve forum health is step one shutter sponsored forums.  Take 90 days to wind it down.  End them. 

 

I understand the benefit of sponsored forums to sponsors and to users of those products.  I think overall it is a bad deal. 

 

I am 100% in disagreement with that proposal. This forum should welcome discussions of all available products that are designed to improve the Computer Audio experience, with comparisons between other competing products and solutions available to assist members in their choices, as well as relevant measurements where available. Of course, technical questions, actual implementation etc. should be confined to the relevant Sponsors Forum.

 A proposal like this is quite likely to further divide the Objective and Subjective sides, as well as resulting in the loss of some very interesting technical discussions and design information.

The problem here appears to be that quite a few members regard most of the products in the Sponsored Areas as Snake Oil and having no technical merit, or audible benefits.

 I for one, have learned a great deal from the various technical discussions and suggestions in other areas such as the audible improvements from earthing of some SMPS supplies, and the improvements possible with innovative additional screening of both Signal and PSU cables,especially from the Uptone Forum from highly respected

 (by the majority of members) E.E. John Swenson.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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12 minutes ago, esldude said:

So my suggestion to improve forum health is step one shutter sponsored forums.  Take 90 days to wind it down.  End them. 


I strongly disagree. Often, like with the introduction of the etherregen, for me (and I suppose many others) they’re the best part of this forum since one can discuss an interesting or novelty product (and it’s immediate surroundings) freely, in depth and most importantly on topic. Annoying ‘distractors’ and distractions are removed or steer clear of these parts of the forum. It’s this that part of these new proposed rules is trying to accomplish if I’m not mistaken. So these closely monitored and actively moderated subforums are actually something we can learn from in this context.

 

Personally, and I’m going to say it anyway even if it’s politically incorrect and not very enlightened (please don’t mention ‘apartheid’ though as that would be way out of perspective), I don’t mind the division that might be a consequence. I have no illusions these ’two camps’ are going to live/coexist together peacefully when noting is changed. They may for a short time but not long term.

 

Am I being pessimistic? Perhaps I am, but I don’t see why this forum would be any different then any other medium which allows (largely) unmoderated discussion about anything audiophile. Any of these have flame wars and objectivists and subjectivists slinging mud at each other. These rules makes it way easier to enforce rules when common civility is not respected. It may even make someone actually think about something before posting because if one knows it’s going to be removed why bother in the first place.

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49 minutes ago, esldude said:

So my suggestion to improve forum health is step one shutter sponsored forums.

You do know that the annual fee sponsors pay Chris for these forums helps keep the lights on at AS?  I do understand your point.


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20 minutes ago, Dutch said:


I strongly disagree. Often, like with the introduction of the etherregen, for me (and I suppose many others) they’re the best part of this forum since one can discuss an interesting or novelty product (and it’s immediate surroundings) freely, in depth and most importantly on topic. Annoying ‘distractors’ and distractions are removed or steer clear of these parts of the forum. It’s this that part of these new proposed rules is trying to accomplish if I’m not mistaken. So these closely monitored and actively moderated subforums are actually something we can learn from in this context.

 I completely agree.

As well as which, trusted moderators in various time zones would result in similar in the main forum areas.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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Also, I hope current forum users, regardless of their country of residence, will be allowed the rights that residents of EU states have -- including the right to be forgotten, and to have their blogs, photographs, and identifying information deleted.


--

Do facts matter?

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3 minutes ago, wgscott said:

Also, I hope current forum users, regardless of their country of residence, will be allowed the rights that residents of EU states have -- including the right to be forgotten, and to have their blogs, photographs, and identifying information deleted.

This is an important but off topic issue. For now I’m only following US law. There are too many international laws which no doubt contradict each other. When Iran says it’s citizens must like mid-fi, I’ll kindly ignore it (extreme example I know). 


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On 12/17/2019 at 3:39 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

I want to stop subjective threads from receiving unwanted comments. 

I want to stop objective threads from receiving unwanted comments. 

I want to encourage people to post both types of comments in threads where this is wanted. 

I want to stop posts that are made for the sport of online arguing.

Sounds good Chris and I hope your mornings improve from here on..


ATL DC Blocker > Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > Sine SA5 Cryo 5 power strip > EtherRegen switch powered with Ciunas Supercaps 7.5v LPS > Antipodes DXe roon core> PS Audio Directstream Junior Dac 'Windom'> Decware SE84UFO3 Mono Amps > Omega Super Alnico Monitors. PH SR4 power supplies. In addition my reference SQ is a modified SD card Player powered by Ian Canada LifePo4/Ultracaps mod outputting 2x 3.3v > I2S module > PS Audio DAC.

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2 hours ago, wgscott said:

Maybe have two general forums as an experiment? 

 

One could be as we have now -- minimal moderation.

The other, in parallel, could be as proposed, with more significant moderation, post limits, etc.

 

The O.P. can choose which one to post to, based upon what kind of discussions they value.

 

Everyone gets to see in real-time which one (or both) thrives.

 

Nice! Instead of guessing, let's do the experiment.


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21 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Nice! Instead of guessing, let's do the experiment.

 

 All that is really needed here is Moderators from different time Zones to ensure that discussions remain respectful and on topic.

 No other forum changes should be necessary.

 This works well in DIY Audio etc.  , so why not here as well ?


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 All that is really needed here is Moderators from different time Zones to ensure that discussions remain respectful and on topic.

 No other forum changes should be necessary.

 This works well in DIY Audio etc.  , so why not here as well ?

 

I disagree. There is nothing going on here that requires 24 x 7 monitoring and response.


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53 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

I disagree. There is nothing going on here that requires 24 x 7 monitoring and response.

I disagree.

 The only other alternative appears to be to bring in a raft of different measures that nobody will like.

 

Quote

When I dread reading my own AS emails in the morning and feel a sense of ease reading the Album of the Evening notifications in my inbox, things have gone off the rails. I know that if I'm fed up with arguments and incivility, the members of the community must be well beyond this. Something must change. 

 

Quote

I know we’ve been down this road in the past, but perhaps adding moderators to hide comments that are clearly in violation of forum rules and clearly against the spirit of discussion in a specific thread, is necessary. 

 


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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Maybe each thread as it generates complaints gets a Defcon level rating.  When it reaches Defcon 1 the entire thread is nuked.  It is left as an exercise for the reader to decide how these levels are determined. 

 

 

 

Oh, and just to be clear, I am not serious.  They nuke threads over at Hoffman, and it isn't a fit thing to do.  


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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8 minutes ago, esldude said:

Maybe each thread as it generates complaints gets a Defcon level rating.  When it reaches Defcon 1 the entire thread is nuked.  It is left as an exercise for the reader to decide how these levels are determined. 

Dennis

 Perhaps that is what several members are trying to achieve, which is the removal or shutting down of threads and views that they do not agree with ?


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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1 minute ago, sandyk said:

Dennis

 Perhaps that is what some members are trying to achieve, which is the removal or shutting down of threads and views that they do not agree with ?

Sorry Alex, I wasn't serious and added that to the bottom of the post apparently about the time you replied.  That isn't what I want.  


And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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8 minutes ago, esldude said:

Sorry Alex, I wasn't serious and added that to the bottom of the post apparently about the time you replied.  That isn't what I want.  

 Dennis

 Substitute Patience level for Defcon level on Chris's part , and you can see why some threads get shut down already. Don't forget too, that this time of year especially, Chris will want to spend time with his family, not to have to keep responding  to complaining messages about poor behaviour by adults.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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One can exaggerate and call it ‘heavy policing’ but the very thread we’re posting in right now is monitored and actively moderated. Though some off topic posts have been removed, everyone seems to behave and still participate just fine.

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3 hours ago, Currawong said:

Head-Fi went through this years ago, and I ended up spending over half a decade being a quite brutal moderator to stop the anarchy starting up again. 

 

Here's the reality: Everyone can be put on a standard deviation grade curve -- most people are moderate and sensible, however people at the ends of any spectrum, the extremists if you like, cause 99% of the problems.  If they don't blatantly accuse others of being everything bad under the sun, they push things to the limits, and push back if you enforce your rules against them.

 

While there is a natural tendency to want to say that you want a place where a variety of views can be expressed, saying that in itself is a trap, as in reality that desire will be hijacked by extremists to push their agendas. Extremists are noisy and motivated to push forums into the ground in their desire to have them bend towards their beliefs.  The best thing to do with them is ban them outright. They can shout to death about everything falsely negative about you. But after it becomes possible to express an opinion without being shouted down by these people, the majority, normally afraid to post because of these people, are more likely to participate again.

 

The problem is likely not one with rules, so much as it is a problem with a small handful of people.

If you're offended by certain people, just put them on ignore. If CC feels certain people are regularly behaving badly or lowering the quality of discussions (some are) he should ban them. 

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20 minutes ago, mansr said:

Says the guy who recently encouraged others to post crap during the American night so it could stay unchallenged longer.

 

 I make no apology for posting replies knowing that 2 members in particular will not be in a position to cause it to disappear from view within minutes of being posted. I would not feel the need to do this if we had more moderators to stop deliberate thread disruption tactics.


How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

 

PROFILE UPDATED 26-12-2019

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