John Dyson Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: When I dread reading my own AS emails in the morning and feel a sense of ease reading the Album of the Evening notifications in my inbox, things have gone off the rails. I know that if I'm fed up with arguments and incivility, the members of the community must be well beyond this. Something must change. Over the last week or so, I've exchanged emails with several members of the AS community about how to curtail undesirable discussions. The feedback has been excellent and from all sides of the issue. With this post, I'm asking for feedback from the community about proposed rule / feature changes to the site. The goal of these changes is to increase people's enjoyment of this wonderful HiFi hobby. To do this the changes should curtail incivility, encourage lurkers to post, stop "thread-crapping", and separate discussions that generate unwanted comments and arguments. I wish I could just ask everyone to be a decent human being, but that just doesn't seem to work. We all have different definitions of decency. I want to stop subjective threads from receiving unwanted comments. I want to stop objective threads from receiving unwanted comments. I want to encourage people to post both types of comments in threads where this is wanted. I want to stop posts that are made for the sport of online arguing. Here are some proposals. Please provide feedback. 1. Be polite. I could literally stop here and 99% of the people on AS would have no problem following the rule. 2. Avoid defamatory statements, personal attacks, name-calling, insults, trolling, thread crapping, and thread-derailing topics. It's often not what you say, but how you say it. 3a. If what you want to post includes words/phrases like "placebo," "expectation bias," "ABX," "blind testing," "snake oil" etc., please post it in the XXXXXXXXXXXX forum (a to-be created sub-forum). 3b. If there's an existing forum thread in which you'd like to discuss that mentioned above in 3a, you must start your own thread about the subject in forum XXXXXXXXXXXX. Optionally you can post a link to your newly started thread, in the existing thread where your comments aren't allowed. This insures all points of view have space here on Audiophile Style. Separating these topics also enables more focused discussions and enables members of the community to read each point of view if they so chose. The above is probably the most controversial proposed rule change. It presupposed all threads are subjective, given our overwhelming majority of subjective leaning members. This proposed rule is used on Head-Fi, but may need massaging here on AS. 4. A daily cap on the number of posts by each member. 5. Make it clearer that OPs can have moderation rights to their threads. This includes removing posts and asking other members to stop posting in the threads. 6. Enable the site feature that blocks members from specific threads. This is only a reactive method and would require a PM to the moderator. 7. Bring back the down vote feature for comments. 8. Anonymize the up/down vote feature. This will resolve the sophomoric issue we've had in the past of down vote retaliation. 9. Consequences for not following the rules will include bans from topics, temporary and permanent bans from the site. Again, these are proposals. All rules / features have unintended consequences. Please provide feedback and any other proposals you see fit. I like your proposals... A few suggested modifications -- 1) I like your 'be polite' comment. But beyond politeness, kindness is something good to remember. It is possible and desirable to be kind to people who might even be disagreeable, but also have fallen on hard times. Polite is critical though... It might be a good idea to 'pull back' instead of 'respond with excessive candor' or 'respond with rudeness'. 3a) I am not offended by those terms, unless they are accusatory or rude. I believe that 'snake-oil' in a general sense is not rude, but saying 'XXX' is spouting snake-oil, then that might be rude. Of course, I can imagine someone taking offense to any generic criticism, but how much is needed to product peoples 'feelings'? You own the forum, so obviously the rules are yours. We aren't talking government control here, so the owner is ultimately responsible for shaping the character of the forum, WHEN NEEDED or DESIRED. Hopefully, shaping isn't really needed... It just sometimes might be needed here. 4) It would be nice if the daily cap was large. I mean, not 3-4, but maybe 10-20? I cannot imagine myself creating more than 20 thoughtful comments -- maybe less... I can blather 20 times though. (I blather anyway, but that isn't intended on being rude :-)) 3-4 is only a moderate contribution. By stating a KNOWN limit, it might help people to be more thoughtful rather than just thowing away their quota on some emtional outbursts? 8 ) It is helpful for me to see the up-vote owners because it gives me a sense of a correspondents/readers attitude -- for constructive purposes. I agree that the down-vote might create bad feelings, even when a down vote might only be a 'i think you are out-of-bounds' on the comment... *EDIT: there are people who I really trust, and knowing up or down vote is sometimes helpful. Of course, I understand that it also can be used as a weapon -- I havne't thought about that, but I guess i understand the issue. The new proposed rules do point in the right direction. Maybe reminder on each forum page about being polite or kind, perhaps without the implied idea that sometimes rudeness has been a problem? Sounds like no matter what, I agree with your general attitude.. The question is? How much to actually implement, and how much to 'threaten'? John The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
John Dyson Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, sandyk said: Hi S.T. You can always take that to friendly PMs as we have done on several occasions, where we often came to a degree of consensus Regards Alex I have started a few days ago, taking my own longer than one or two digressions off to PM.. That is a good idea... Link to comment
John Dyson Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Hmmmm... Even this thread is degenerating a bit. I would suggest moderation (in the generic sense, not in the sense of a thread moderator) in making changes. Seems that Jud might have a worthwhile notiion :-). It would be nice if the forum software could regulate crankyness... John Ralf11 1 Link to comment
Popular Post John Dyson Posted December 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 20, 2019 I don't understand intensity on the forum -- I have invested a LOT of time into audio stuff, but don't get intensely angry when people disagree... Why the rancor, why the intensity? This is NOT religion, but at most a very serious hobby -- or for some, a vocation. If someone is nice enough to provide the resources for this forum, than we visitors and especially those who contribute, should treat the forum, the providers and each other with some level of mutual respect, and maybe even kindness. I *almost* feel like I am visiting someones house when participating in the forum -- and it seems a good idea to be happy about the welcome. Vehement disagrement seems to become too personal. Geesh, I have private discussions with someone where we are on edge of disagreement much of the time, but it is not DISAGREEABLE, because there is a modicum of mutual respect. It is not helpful to have excess negative emotions. Proving side A or side B is the 'correct side' is sometimes not going to happen. Mutual respect allows agreement to disagree, or to accept that there are areas where there can be some disagreement. Sometimes, eventually there can be a movement towards agreement -- but it shouldn't need to be a 'crusade' to convince when it isn't really necessary. BTW -- I am NOT a flower child and can be aggressive in the european sense (which isn't a good thing) -- but there are situations where being very assertive is a good thing. Remotely, over a forum like this, it is seldom beneficial to be very aggressively assertive. Sometimes best to recognize that there are things and people that none of us can control. There are actually people who think differently -- and slightly different reality. Doesn't make it bad -- just different. John firedog, The Computer Audiophile, STC and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
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