Kimo Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I have been making a dedicated effort over the last several months to utilize pro cabling in my home audio system. Experimentation is fairly cheap. Also, I believe that most companies are shooting for truthful reproduction, typically at low cost. With that said, there are sonic differences, even within the lines one manufacturer. Here are my favorites so far. RCA: Mogami Gold XLR: Grimm Audio SPDIF: Apogee Wyde Eye Speaker Cable: Gotham 2 x 2.5 I would say that I am finding the Grimm and Gotham to be great value and highly recommend. With all the cables mentioned above, I feel no reason to go searching for audiophile alternatives. Anyone else using pro cables? Any recommendations? Link to comment
Kimo Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 hour ago, gmgraves said: I use them whenever an XLR cable is indicated because I have them - lots of them. I can’t say anything about differences in sound between any of them because I am from the camp that is sure that any differences between interconnects is due to different makes and models of the wire used in their construction. If they sound different it is because they are attenuating different parts of the pass band and real conductors don’t do that, filters do that. Remember, a cable is passive, not active and therefore cannot add anything to the signal passing through it, it can only subtract from that signal. All cables do that to a certain extent, and that extent increases with length. But it is measurable, and predictable, and calculable. For speaker cable, I recommend Sewell Direct “Silverback” cable. www.sewelldirect.com This Utah-based company sells 12 Gauge OFC 259 strand speaker wire that comes pre-made in various lengths terminated with some of the highest quality banana plugs I’ve ever seen. And they do so at ridiculously low prices! A superb product in every way. Well, for whatever reason, Mogami Gold XLR star quad cables don't sound like the AES cable or their cheaper version, and I am fairly certain Mogami would agree. I was a bit surprised by this. The Grimm cable throws a rock solid phantom center image that I have not heard with other cables pro or audiophile. I was also surprised by this. The Sewell Silverback looks like great value, but where is the silver? Speedskater and NOMBEDES 1 1 Link to comment
Kimo Posted December 15, 2019 Author Share Posted December 15, 2019 3 hours ago, audiobomber said: I found Mogami Gold RCA cables compressed the soundstage in my main system, compared to Cardas Neutral Reference and Iridium. I had no preference between Cardas Neutral Reference RCA and Yorkville DLX XLR (pro) interconnects feeding my Hafler HA15 headphone amp. Of course there's more involved in this comparison than just cables. Interesting. I did not care for the Mogami Gold XLR cables. I have seen comments from others regarding the high end. I understand that they do a great job keeping noise out, but.... I don't have much need for RCAs, unless I am running the tube amp, or the phono stage. Perhaps, I will try and compare something basic with the Mogami to see if I notice any difference. Link to comment
Kimo Posted December 15, 2019 Author Share Posted December 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Nikhil said: Belden 8402 for SE Interconnects Belden 8477 for Speaker Cable Organic sounding Tinned Copper cables. . Have you ever had the opportunity to compare the 8477 with Belden 9497? Link to comment
Kimo Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Nikhil said: No I haven't ... was looking for a 12AWG cable in my case which led me to the 8477. But thanks for bringing it up. Will look out for it. . I don't think it would be a great fit, if a larger gauge is required. It is a long time favorite of the SET/Tube owners, who seem to typically eschew fancy cables. Link to comment
Kimo Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 3 hours ago, ferenc said: I use Wireworld Micro-Platinum pro microphone cables in my hifi and home studio and for our My Reel Club live studio recordings too. Their speaker cable designed for mastering work is pretty upscale. I seen Vovox doing the same thing. Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/12/2020 at 10:58 PM, audiobomber said: I've now tried the 3' Mogami Gold in two more settings: 1. Between a passive preamp and miniDSP 2x4 feeding my subs 2. Between my Korg DAC and Asgard 2 headphone amp. I didn't like it in either situation, it sounded loose and a bit dirty. In the headphone system, I replaced it with an old Meitner Cryo cable. In the sub circuit, I replaced with a dirt cheap but very well made Impact Acoustics Sonicwave cable. Both tightened up the bass and cleaned up the mids and highs. The Gold is very well made and nicely flexible but I am not impressed. I have sold off the last of my Mogami cable. I no longer have much need for RCA cables. Mogami worked better with my tube amp than my solid state set up. The Mogami's user friendly nature was a plus. Admittedly, I have never been overwhelmed by differences in RCA cables. Maybe, I will try the TPR single ended, or perhaps Gotham. The Mogami 2803 is supposed to be very special, but appears to be limited in production and not particularly inexpensive. Also, moved over to the Belden 1694a for spdif. Not nearly as easy to deal with as the Apogee, but probably a little more exciting in its presentation. I don't have much use for spdif any longer, so I likely won't bother experimenting too much. My transport based play back is pretty much limited to a few blu rays and dvds. Vovox and Supra are brands that I am interested in. I suppose the latter really doesn't count as a pro company. I am enjoying their phono cable very much, however. Current recommendations. RCA: ? XLR: Grimm Audio SPDIF: Belden 1694a Speaker Cable: Gotham 2 x 2.5 Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 On 12/15/2019 at 10:27 PM, Nikhil said: In the case of 12AWG the gauge impacts low end with warmth and solidity / weight to the sound . The 16AWG in comparison has a thinner more precise sound as the lower end is attenuated giving clearer HF. Warm sounding systems will probably benefit from a 16 AWG cable. I checked notes with a friend of mine who had both the 8477 and 9497. He preferred the 8477 for the reasons mentioned above. The 8477 had more weight and warmth which he preferred in his setup. . . I actually used magnet wire with the Fi 2a3 amp that I used to own, and I recall it working just fine. Certainly, it would cost very little to experiment with. Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 15, 2020 Author Share Posted April 15, 2020 13 hours ago, sandyk said: What is the length of the cables that you are using ? Just 2 meters. Star quad not required. I just started with the Mogami Gold, because it seemed like a good place to begin. Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 On 4/22/2020 at 8:24 AM, wr_aspire said: I used to be a sucker of Expensive cables like Siltech, Argento, etc until I bought a pair of FM Acoustics XLR interconnects. They are not cheap, but relatively inexpensive compared to other big names. By its look, you can mistake it from $5 cable, but don't be fooled by its appearance, it replaced a pair of Argento FMR XLR in my system 🙂 I heard their speaker cables are also very good but FM products are extremely rare in used market, and people tend to just keep them. They are pretty rare in the new market as well. At least in the USA. Quick google search didn't provide much. From my own experience, I would certainly agree with them on phono cables and specificity, per what I read on the FM site. I have a pair of Supra EFF cables in for comparison to the Grimm. They cost a bit more, but the company has been making cables forever, and the pricing is still cheap by audiophile standards. Will see how they compare with the Vovox, as well. Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Nikhil said: @Kimo Have you tried out the Gotham XLR cables? Have heard some very positive things about Gotham cable. . I have not. I am using their speaker cable, however, and it is a very inexpensive option. To date, I have been very happy with the Grimm TPR. The Vovox Sonorus was also good, if a little different, but the lack of shielding was a concern. Sometimes it felt as if the extra detail was a product of a touch of RF. So far, the Supra EFF is a little different from the Grimm and Vovox. The Grimm has been the biggest and warmest in the lower midrange and bass. These are all between 100.00 and 200.00 for a 2 meter pair, so I think that they are good value. Even the Livewire Essential cable I have sounds fine. The others just seem to offer a bit more. Nikhil 1 Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 59 minutes ago, wr_aspire said: I'd like to try these brands, given the current economic situation it probably make sense to explore toward the lower end of the spectrum. Where can I buy them? In the USA, your best best is Ebay for Supra and Grimm. You can also purchase in bulk or ready made from the Grimm website. https://www.grimmaudio.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=65_66 For Vovox, these guys seem to have the best prices and ship world wide for free. https://shop.highend-audiopc.com/collections/vovox Even the top of line from these companies is fairly cheap by audiophile standards. Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 44 minutes ago, Speedskater said: Didn't Gotham have some strange 3 conductor XLR cables? They were just asking to be mis-wired and for increased SCIN (noise). 10701 GAC-3. According to the website it has been around for 5 decades. Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 27, 2020 Author Share Posted April 27, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 8:28 AM, Speedskater said: Yes that StarQuad cable is designed for harsh pro audio situations where the cable might get thrown down with lighting control cable and various power cords. Looks like Benchmark recommends star quad for all applications to provide extra protection against magnetic fields. I know that Grimm's higher end cable is now all star quad, even for shorter distances. I don't recall hearing buzzing through any of the non star quad cables that I have used. Studios, live sound venues and homes all have magnetic fields that can cause interference. Magnetic fields are produced whenever current flows through a wire. AC power cables, transformers, power supplies, computers, portable chargers, motors and light dimmers are among the devices that can emit strong magnetic fields. A microphone cable can pick up magnetic interference if it happens to pass near one of these devices. Cables can also pick up magnetic fields when they run adjacent to AC power. Top-quality star-quad cables can reduce this magnetic interference by at least 20 to 30 dB. This is almost always enough to reduce the interference to inaudible levels. Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 On 4/27/2020 at 5:45 PM, Speedskater said: While StarQuad is useful in harsh interference pro venues, I think that Benchmark had to work real hard to show those differences. Looks like they use Canare wire and simply provide assembly. The Canare Star Quad that I heard did not seem to suffer on the high end like the Mogami Gold. Seems like a fine basic option. Link to comment
Kimo Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 More updates. 1. Gotham SPK 2.5 remains my favorite for inexpensive speaker cable 2. Grimm TPR remains my favorite for AES, but for analog I have come to the conclusion that it is a little harsh in the treble. Could be the silver plating. 3. Supra EFF is a bit different. Has the Supra signature edge relief, but also sounds a little tipped up. Not as harsh as the Grimm, however. Again, a silver plated cable. 4. Mogami Gold just does not sound quite right in the treble to me. 5. Canare Star Quad is my new recommendation for XLR cable. Does not have the issues noted above. 6. Gotham GAC 2 ultra pro is on order. Will compare it with the Canare. Based on this experience, I would be a bit cautious of silver plated cable. Many seem to agree with my findings with regards to harshness, at least for analog. I am going to stick to all copper for analog from here on out. Link to comment
Popular Post Kimo Posted February 4, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2021 Well, it has been over a year and I have sampled a fair number of cables from Apogee, Belden, Canare, Gotham, Grimm, and Mogami. I must share my findings, if for no other reason than protect an impressionable innocent from wasting their precious hours doing cable comparisons. Firstly, none of these "neutral" pro cables sounded that much alike. The brands seem to have a house sound I spoke to an engineer that explained it this way. As with microphones, cables need to be free of noise and work when called upon, but they are known to sound different from each other, and a good engineer understands this and makes appropriated adjustments. For example, Gotham can be described as tipped up with a warmish midrange. While Mogami, and to a lesser extent Canare, a bit rolled off or dull, especially by comparison to Gotham. Belden seems to fall between the two. Most neutral then? Here are my picks: AES/EBU: I had to borrow a vintage player to find something with the right output. I would say that the Grimm cable was likely a little better than Mogami, Gotham, or Belden (Blue Jeans). I can't recommend the Grimm cable for analog, however, unless your searching for a little airier sound. Seems to do decay better than the others, but suffers on attack, like many sliver plated cables. SPDIF and RCA: Apogee Wyde Eye is my favorite. Gotham can sound bright, and Mogami a bit dead, at least for analog. Belden 1694 is okay, but is a pain to deal with and can sound edgy. I found the Apogee cables superior to the BJC LC1, which can sound dry. I would have no problem using Apogee for spdif or rca throughout my whole system. XLR: I don't have a favorite. Probably the Vovoxx was best, but it is much pricier than other pro brands. I will say that I did not find a star quad that sounded as open as any twisted pair. I think Mogami Silver would be as good a bet as any, unless you are looking for more high end. Then, go Gotham. Speaker cables: Mogami can sound dull. Gotham tipped up. Belden seems about right. Blue Jeans cable would be the place to start. Now for the final final conclusion. I wouldn't recommend going with pro cables, in general. I think for a little more money you can get into some nice audiophile approved offerings that probably sound better. I ended buying mostly Black Cat, but some of the cheaper Audioquest, Kimber, etc. sounded pretty good, and I would start there. If anyone wants to buy my last Gotham AES pair, let me know.... Nikhil, Topk and jaynyc 1 2 Link to comment
Kimo Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 8 hours ago, Nikhil said: Could you please share the model numbers of the cables you used? There is a fair amount of variation in the cables within brands as well. Thanks for sharing your impressions. Regards . Here goes: 1. Apogee Wyde Eye: Same cable for analog and spdif. Did not try them for AES or XLR 2. Belden 1694A: Spdif and RCA 3. Belden 1800f: XLR, BAV XLR 4. Belden Blue Jeans LC1 RCA 5. Belden 5000 series speaker cable 6. Canare L4E65 7. Gotham: GAC 1 ultrapro, GAC 1, GAC 2 AES, SPK 2 x 2.5 8. Grimm TPR AES/XLR 9. Mogami 3173 AES, Silver Series XLR, Gold Series XLR, Gold RCA/SPDIF, 3103 speaker cable 10. Vovox Sonorus XLR 11. LIvewire Advantage Microphone cable Nikhil 1 Link to comment
Kimo Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 Updated: AES/EBU: Grimm Audio. SPDIF: Apogee Wyde Eye XLR: Gotham/EMT 2111, Mogami 2549. Vovox Sonorus Direct (more expensive by comparison and unshielded) Speaker cables: Gotham then Mogami RCA: Gotham GAC 1 Ultra pro and Mogami 2497. Wyde Eye, a close second. Star quad: Had to create a separate category, since everyone I have heard has had some defect. Gotham 4/1, Belden BAV, Mogami, Canare in this order. Generally, I would say avoid. All of them tend be a little dull/dark and flat. No soundstage depth. Gotham is the best of the bunch, if you need it. Avoid silver plated for analog, and star quad designs, unless necessary, i.e. hum problems. Topk 1 Link to comment
Kimo Posted December 22, 2021 Author Share Posted December 22, 2021 Bringing in a new competitor. Audio Envy mic cable. Ghost cable may also get a run, once the website is updated. Also, revisiting Mogami 2549 with different connectors. Will update recommendations after further auditions for the 1 1/2 people who still might have any interest. Topk 1 Link to comment
Kimo Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 Got the Audio Envy burned and will say that it is a bit of a different beast from what I have heard so far. Smoother than most other pro brands and a bit lighter in the midrange. Certainly a bit more expensive, but not really that much when you can pay 150.00 for a pair of Mogamis, Vovox, or Gotham ultra pros. Topk 1 Link to comment
Kimo Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 hours ago, bobfa said: I will stand in for your 1 1/2 people interested. Because I am very interested. Other than AC power I have two signal cables in my system. A SPDIF cable between the two speakers (Heavenly Soundworks 517). That cable transmits the digital stream from the master to the slave. I have a Belden from BlueJeans cable there. The Second cable is an AES from the streamer to the master speaker. This needs to be about 3M long. I am using a Mogami 3080 cable now. I have tried a couple rather pricey cables that really did not add that much. I was going to get something from Bluejeans cable but the Grimm is interesting. I do not see electrical specs. Is it 110 ohm??? Specs are here. First and foremost an AES/EBU cable. The Mogami 3173 would be another one to consider. The Belden from Bluejeans looks good too. Some people like the DH Labs, which is silver plated like the Grimm. The Grimm cable is a bit stiff, if flexibility is an issue. With all that said, the 3080 has lots of fans. https://www.grimmaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/Grimm-Audio-TPR-leaflet.pdf Link to comment
Kimo Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 Bob, looking forward to your results. I no longer have the ability to listen to AES, since I now lack a source, but recall the Grimm fairly well. That said, I am guessing the DH Labs gets the win. I did give the Audio Envy and the Mogami 2549 with silver plugs a try. The former is the winner of the XLR group, but it is a bit expensive by comparison, though not so much as compared with Gotham 4/1 ultra pro, Vovox, etc. The Mogami still has the nice open midrange, but is soft on top and a little fat on the bottom. There is also a hint of grit present. Spending time with the Mogami and AE cables did expose an issue with my former favorite 2111. Though it is clean, smooth, and detailed, it has a problem in the midrange that can result in a pinched or veiled sound, especially in some vocals. Once heard, can't be unheard. The good news is that the Gotham GAC 4/1 does not suffer from that problem. It is still a little flat in my opinion, but is probably the best of the bunch that I have heard by comparison. Updated. USB: Oyaide Neo + A series Rev 2. Marketed toward DJs. AES/EBU: Grimm Audio. SPDIF: Apogee Wyde Eye XLR: Surprisingly, this has been the toughest category to find good performance in. Audio Envy, Gotham GAC 4/1 Speaker cables: Gotham. It really is a better listen than the Mogami and cheaper as well. RCA: Gotham GAC 1 Ultra pro and Mogami 2497. Link to comment
Kimo Posted February 14, 2022 Author Share Posted February 14, 2022 Bobfa, any news on the AES cable comparison? I just picked up a new pair of Gotham AES ultra pro XLRs, which had become a bit difficult to find. Going to compare them in analog with the 2111. Link to comment
Kimo Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 On 2/14/2022 at 4:57 PM, bobfa said: I am slowly breaking cables in. I have two warmed up. he Mogami and the DH Audio labs 110 I finally got some Gotham GAC 2 ultra pro cable in. Was a little tough to find in the USA. I am using it from my phono preamp to the DAC/preamp. Out of the box, nothing sounds overtly wrong. That is a nice change. So far, I have had better luck using the pro AES cables for analog, than the analog mic cables for analog. Link to comment
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