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Article: Guest Editorial: Why did audio stop being about audio?


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5 minutes ago, thyname said:


‘As I said: owning any audio system. Show me what you got. Very eager to learn, and share experiences. That’s what this hobby is all about, right?

 

I would describe my system this way:

 

 

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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40 minutes ago, thyname said:


‘Only to those I mentioned. Not to all objectivists. My post was especially targeted to those who don’t even own an audio system, or don’t even listen to music.

 

 

The above is what you said, not the revisionist post later.

 

I would like to know if there is such a person on here.  Or Not.

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1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

The above is what you said, not the revisionist post later.

 

I would like to know if there is such a person on here.  Or Not.


As I said: owning any audio system. Show me what you got. Very eager to learn, and share experiences. That’s what this hobby is all about, right?

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Just now, crenca said:

 

I was jesting with you.  If your sincerely interested:

 

I am currently an all HP guy, though in my office I do have KEF Q350's powered by a Parasound amp that I tell my wife are "computer speakers", but the room nodes of my office make them too gimped for any critical listening.

 

My main HP system currently (changes as I buy and sell) is iFi IDAC2/Airist R2R/Schiit Gungnir MB "A2 {second revision}" >>> Schiit Saga >>> Schiit Jot/Eddie Current BW2 >>> ZMF Eikon/ZMF Verite/Focal Clear/Focal Elegia/Hifiman XX (these suck)/Sennheiser HD650

 

All fed by Roon (mostly), sometimes HQPlayer and/or JRiver with various VST DSP plugins.  For magic pixie dust on my PC source, I stick with just Lasso and various solutions from Synergistic Research...


Thanks for sharing. Now we are talking. I used to be big on Headphones. Not anymore. From your current gear you have, I used to own the Airist headphones amp and ZMF Eikon. Lots of other HP stuff I used to own, including Senn HD800, Focal Utopia, Headamp GS-X MK2, Holo Spring KTE, Schiit Mjolnir, and more. Big Roon fan, and lifetime sub on year three. For what’s worth I am a fan of R2R DAC technology too. Nothing scientific, purely subjective, the type of sound I like.
 

My kids grew up, so I am back into speakers. Does not mean I will never go back into HP. Cheers!

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7 minutes ago, thyname said:


Thanks for sharing. Now we are talking. I used to be big on Headphones. Not anymore. From your current gear you have, I used to own the Airist headphones amp and ZMF Eikon. Lots of other HP stuff I used to own, including Senn HD800, Focal Utopia, Headamp GS-X MK2, Holo Spring KTE, Schiit Mjolnir, and more. Big Roon fan, and lifetime sub on year three. For what’s worth I am a fan of R2R DAC technology too. Nothing scientific, purely subjective, the type of sound I like.
 

My kids grew up, so I am back into speakers. Does not mean I will never go back into HP. Cheers!

 

Yep, I want to own the Utopia, but the delta between it and the Clear is not enough to justify the price, though street prices this year fell quite a bit so...

 

As much as I like the Eikon's tonality/timbre, the speed/detail is lacking, but the Verite (Closed in my case) brings Focal speed/detail to that warm ZMF house sound, which itself is polarizing.  With kids, I am chasing the closed back dragon.  "Face tweeters" like the HD800 bother me, though I get why folks who mostly listen to classical are drawn to this sound.  

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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1 minute ago, crenca said:

 

Yep, I want to own the Utopia, but the delta between it and the Clear is not enough to justify the price, though street prices this year fell quite a bit so...

 

As much as I like the Eikon's tonality/timbre, the speed/detail is lacking, but the Verite (Closed in my case) brings Focal speed/detail to that warm ZMF house sound, which itself is polarizing.  With kids, I am chasing the closed back dragon.  "Face tweeters" like the HD800 bother me, though I get why folks who mostly listen to classical are drawn to this sound.  


‘My HD800 were SDR modified (superDupont Resonator). They were my go-to headphones until I got Utopia. Street price on Utopia is way lower than MSRP. I remember I paid something like $2,500 or $2,600 all in a few years ago, brand new.

 

A local guy I know is friendly with Zach at ZMF, so I was familiar with his cans. Good stuff for sure 

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1 minute ago, tmtomh said:

 

I'm sorry, but that's never, ever going to happen here. 

 

The reason is that the entire point of objectivism is that individual experience owning and listening to gear is not, by itself, a reliable measure or indicator of anything except, well, that individual's experience. Experience is valuable and essential, but it is limited when it comes to communicating sonic characteristics and performance facts that are likely to be repeatable by others.

 

As for limiting posts about measurements to gear that the individual has measured themselves, that is equally nonsensical in the context of what objectivism is about: repeatability of measurement is what makes measurement meaningful. Who does the measurement is irrelevant - and by definition one's own measurements are not more important or valid than anyone else's. Since not everyone has the time, money, and expertise necessary to own and properly operate good-quality testing equipment, we necessarily rely on those who do own and know how to operate that equipment to supply the testing data.

 

In sum, what your comment here does is say that objectivist commentary is fine with you - as long as it's limited in such a way as to turn it into subjectivist commentary. There's nothing open-minded about that. So if that's your position, then I would suggest you kindly take a seat in this discussion.


I am so sorry, but your reply to me does not make sense.

 

Are you stating that current owners of a piece of equipment don’t need to share their experience with what they own simply because their experience with said gear may not be repeatable by others?

 

Further, are you saying the only opinion that counts is that of His Majesty, “who do own and know how to operate that equipment to supply the testing data”?

 

With outmost respects, this is by far the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. Utterly nonsense 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

At this point is it fair to say that the original article failed to bring about a change in behavior?  Haven’t we seem enough evidence that suggests these individuals feel their behavior is justified?  I’m not trying to stir up the dust with these questions as I think we’ve done enough talking about the problem.  I’m just thinking it be time to shift the discussion to possible solutions. 
 

The ideal solution would have been for certain individuals to agree to moderate their own behavior. But as they are either unwilling or unable to do this, might there be a solution that doesn’t have to burden others with the task of moderation?  Or do we do nothing and just allow things to continue as is?

 

I have several friends who could make wonderful contributions here that would help us all better enjoy listening to the music we love, but they either avoid posting here or do it sparingly because they have the exact same complaints that were raised in the article.  As such I hope we can find an agreeable solution.

 

I agree that "certain individuals should moderate their own behavior."  For example, if someone disagrees with some claim about cables, you should pay attention and not Rage On like a snowflake in Hades.

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2 minutes ago, tmtomh said:

Owners of a piece of equipment don't need to share their experiences - but they certainly can do so


Then what would be the point in discussing with other people in a hobby forum like this? This is definitely not a need, like nutrition, or thirst. It’s a hobby. We are here to discuss with each other about the hobby. This is not a life or death situation.

 

5 minutes ago, tmtomh said:

Rather, I am saying that it does not make sense to claim - as you did - that people should only post comments here about measurements if they made those measurements themselves.


‘You really took my measurement comment in the most serious context. All I was saying is that the opinion of an objectivist, or of anyone for that matter, is totally acceptable by me if that person has actual personal experience with something. Not simply because he read some measurements that His Majesty posted in the Internets. Does it make sense? Or are you really implying that if someone who has those special instruments, and measures this stuff, is the absolute authority in all audio, and 100% of the population should buy what he determined to have the most superior measurements?

 

11 minutes ago, tmtomh said:

as for the fact that you find my prior post ridiculous, if I were you I wouldn't be so sure that's a commentary on the content of my post.


‘Sorry, I don’t get it. My comprehension skills are lacking with this one

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