Article: Guest Editorial: Why did audio stop being about audio?

[Ralf11]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

<false equivalence of science & religion>

 

I didn't get that from reading the OP's article. 

 

 

 

 

Did you read the entire article???

 

"I believe these debates are about religion  * * *

Allowing audiophiles to post their subjective conclusions without proof brings them one step closer to accepting those who relate their religious experiences without proof. For them, science is god "

 

I also have never seen any of the 3 attacks on you that he lists.

[Ralf11]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It seems like you guys think your saving the Earth from the next great plague. I'm all for calling out anti-vaxxers because people are literally dying. HiFi is entertainment. There hasn't been a death yet.

 

you have erected the wrong strawman

[Ralf11]

10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 The intensity with which some people rail against HiFi,  

 

I've never anyone on here rail against HiFi

 

I agree with the trolling comment

[Ralf11]

CC keeps telling us we are all adults and can make our own bad decisions, the little kids must be invisible

[Ralf11]

"Good Sound" is more likely with good Scotch, and the state store had a very rare sale today.

 

Therefore...

[Ralf11]

14 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

  I am truly sad that (on the basis of your posts) you neither seem to like your system, or the act of listening to music. So much so that you feel the need to come onto an audiophile website and attack both designers/manufacturers and the people who appreciate their equipment's performance without evidence, research, or experience: (in both subjective and objective realms).

 

you seem to have me confused with someone else

 

actually, you seem confused about a lot of things

[Ralf11]

that's 3, Frank

[Ralf11]

2 minutes ago, ARQuint said:

 

the vital importance of the issue of civility. There's been an explosive response, mostly from two constituencies. The first is a large group of members that's as concerned as the OP about the manner in which a vocal minority attack those with different opinions than their own. The second are representatives of that minority who recognize themselves in Joel's essay and don't like the characterization. I can detect, from some of them, annoyance and even frank anger with The Computer Audiophile for publishing the editorial, viewing it as a kind a slap in the face.

 

I suppose it is. But it's a subject that needs addressing and that outpouring of reaction—more than 500 postings in two days!—is very telling. I'll try returning to lurking status and observe what I hope will be the growth of a corrective force.

Andrew Quint

Senior Writer

The Absolute Sound

 

See - now this is a way to attack people under cover of 'civility' - we need more of this

[Ralf11]

16 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

Hey, look, the OK Rando button got implemented!

 

 

 

I thought it was superseded by the UltraRando ??

[Ralf11]

smugmanimous comes to mind too...

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

We have people enjoying themselves by using products others don't believe can possibly make a difference. They aren't interested in hearing from anyone else. 

 

Then why are they posting on the internet?

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, thyname said:

‘Because they are out there to get you 🙄

 

Thank God we have you and some other “slayers of snake oil” and “the ABX Audiophile” to save the humanity from this genocide 🙄
 

You even have a banner now 

 

 

 

How about some CIVILITY?

[Ralf11]

4 hours ago, firedog said:

The corrective force quote was ARQ, not me.

 

We don't need a corrective force.

 

We need this:

 

 

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, Iving said:

 

What nonsense

 

the kind that violates physical law

 

physics is not sociology 

[Ralf11]

26 minutes ago, thyname said:

My issue is with the usual types / names in here never actually posting anything about any piece of gear, sharing their experiences, discussing features and helping people who ask, evaluate a purchase. It seems like the only time these guys post is to either bash something, or getting into useless theoretical arguments. So what's the value they add to any online audiophile forum other than denounce "snake oil"?

 

I think the added value you are searching for is called "physics"

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, thyname said:

I have no issue with the "objectivists" posting about audio, as long as it is based on their own, actual experience, of owning and using (or measuring) the gear under review.

 

 

Does this only apply to  "objectivists" as you define it - or to everyone???

 

I am thinking of one non-objective individual in particular, who frequently disrupts threads with his angry posts, yet never comments on his own actual experience of the gear under discussion.  He also has a hearing loss.

[Ralf11]

who here doesn’t even own an audio system, or doesn’t even listen to music ???

[Ralf11]

40 minutes ago, thyname said:

‘Only to those I mentioned. Not to all objectivists. My post was especially targeted to those who don’t even own an audio system, or don’t even listen to music.

 

 

The above is what you said, not the revisionist post later.

 

I would like to know if there is such a person on here.  Or Not.

[Ralf11]

40 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

At this point is it fair to say that the original article failed to bring about a change in behavior?  Haven’t we seem enough evidence that suggests these individuals feel their behavior is justified?  I’m not trying to stir up the dust with these questions as I think we’ve done enough talking about the problem.  I’m just thinking it be time to shift the discussion to possible solutions. 
 

The ideal solution would have been for certain individuals to agree to moderate their own behavior. But as they are either unwilling or unable to do this, might there be a solution that doesn’t have to burden others with the task of moderation?  Or do we do nothing and just allow things to continue as is?

 

I have several friends who could make wonderful contributions here that would help us all better enjoy listening to the music we love, but they either avoid posting here or do it sparingly because they have the exact same complaints that were raised in the article.  As such I hope we can find an agreeable solution.

 

I agree that "certain individuals should moderate their own behavior."  For example, if someone disagrees with some claim about cables, you should pay attention and not Rage On like a snowflake in Hades.

[Ralf11]

When I think of all the worries
People seem to find
And how they're in a hurry
To complicate their minds

By chasing after jitter
And clocks that can't come true
I'm glad that we are different
We've better things to do

May others plan their future
We're busy listening to

Music.

 

- from the 1960s hit song "Let Listen Today"

[Ralf11]

Because it is indeed sarcastic and dismissive.  i.e. EXACTLY the complaint that started this long, tendentious thread

[Ralf11]

solder the buffers in, Frank

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'd say this began soon after the first phonograph was invented for home use. There just wasn't an online forum for people to complain back then.

 

But ridicule of audiophools dates back to the 1950s at least.  So they were making absurd claims and complaining somehow 

[Ralf11]

a custom designed IC, or is an off the shelf IC adequate?  (e.g. layout, crosstalk, etc. etc.)

[Ralf11]

5 hours ago, ShawnC said:

So, to expand on that, given say 4 amps from 4 different manufacturers that all meet the same criteria (class, power rating and gain) what could possibly be the reasons some may hear a difference?  Would it be different types of capacitors, wiring, grounding ect,.  What would be the the logical check list to figure out why we may hear a difference in amplifiers if it does exists? 

 

@mansr, often says a product "meets specs" or is within a given specification.  So if a amplifier that meets specs with all its possible building components that create that amplifier, yet is made from different types of building materials (cooper, silver, aluminium, plastic ect..) but still meets specs, could this be the difference in what we hear, given the amp meets spec and current standard measurements?

 

Then we can move on to Pre amps, DACs ect..

 

Crossover distortion has been an issue for years - hence the popularity of class A designs (despite the horrors of trying to drive a speaker with only a few W of power);  Benchmark licensed a technology using feed-forward from (THX?) that is claimed to greatly reduce this distortion, and is a widely acclaimed amp

 

then there is the spectrum of harmonics produced by tubes vs. (most) transistors; and the rise of the MOS-FET

 

and, of course, the Dr. J transistor...