mansr Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I also see no objective data that an “overwhelming majority” of the industry is snake oil. Name five "high-end" audio companies. Humour me, please. Link to comment
mansr Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, thyname said: ‘You will be surprised. And Alexa speakers or your car stereo does not count What is the minimum price that counts? Ralf11 1 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, thyname said: who said anything about price? Well, what criteria decide what counts? Percentage silver in cables? Number of "quantum" in names of components? What? wgscott and Teresa 2 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2019 7 hours ago, tmtomh said: See the long comment I just posted in response to one of your earlier comments. In this example, I would say Person B is in the wrong because they are being unnecessarily rude to Person A. There is no evidence that Person A is "being scammed," that the amp is "rubbish," or that it "sounds terrible." But if it does measure badly, then that's a fact, and Person B is absolutely, positively not in the wrong for pointing that out. Now, a much more realistic scenario is that Person B does not own this amp, and never laid eyes on it, but does own an audio system. Person B read the measurements of this amp and goes onto the forum and points out that the amp does not measure well and that there are other amps available with better measured performance for the same money. I can understand how Person A would feel deflated or irritated by that, but the mere fact that Person A would have preferred not to get that response does not mean Person B is in the wrong. I understand that there are some people here who can be quite rude at times. But even they do not conform to the over-the-top Straw Man you have concocted as your Person B here. Finally, if you don't care about measurements and you don't think measurements have any correlation to sonics or any informational value, that is your prerogative. But it's rather rich that you are calling out "objectivists" for rudely mocking and dismissing others when you seem to have an irresistible compulsion to call someone who does measurements "His Majesty" over and over again and refer to "graphs and all" in a sarcastic, dismissive manner that suggests you cannot tolerate or respect those who find value in measurements. Building on this example, consider the following (IMO realistic) scenario. Person A starts a thread explaining that he currently uses amp X, is looking to replace it, possibly with amp Y, and would like some input from others. Person B, who does not own amp Y, points out that when person C measured it, the results were rather poor, making it unlikely to be an improvement over amp X. Here person S shows up and accuses person B of being rude because there are people who in fact like amp Y. Person S then starts ranting about linear power supplies and USB drives, lashing out at anyone who tries to get the discussion back on track. Tell me, who is the one causing problems here? DuckToller, tmtomh, Rt66indierock and 3 others 2 1 3 Link to comment
mansr Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, tmtomh said: RE op amps, I'd be curious to hear from @mansr and other members with significant engineering knowledge about the question of whether or not the main existing measurements can reasonably be considered to capture the performance of op amps vs a discrete stage. My understanding (which could be mistaken) is that they do. At the voltages and currents involved here, there is nothing one can do with discrete components that can't be done better as an IC. tmtomh 1 Link to comment
mansr Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: a custom designed IC, or is an off the shelf IC adequate? (e.g. layout, crosstalk, etc. etc.) We're talking about low-level audio amplifiers. Nothing exotic here, and many ready-made parts are available with excellent performance figures. For example, take a look at the OPA1611 data sheet. It describes a circuit that amplifies the distortion to make it measurable. Even if the official figures are inflated, matching its performance with a discrete circuit would take considerable effort. Why not leave that to the experts who designed the chip? They're probably better at it than you are. esldude 1 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, tmtomh said: An IC can be designed to tighter tolerances than a discrete-component stage (that much I know; others can elaborate beyond my level of understanding). Right, and you can fit a silly number of components in a small area, enabling much more advanced circuits. The smaller size also makes the IC less sensitive to radiated noise. tmtomh, Jud, crenca and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, Jud said: More information would be interesting and helpful. What voltage and current levels would be reasonable cutoffs? It's hard to pick a particular number. One factor is thermal management. I guess you've seen power amp output transistors bolted to a heatsink. Not only is it easier to get rid of heat from a discrete component, keeping that heat away from other components is also a good thing. Another aspect is component size. At high currents (hundreds of amps), a diode might need to be an inch in diameter. No sense in trying to integrate that. crenca and tmtomh 2 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, ShawnC said: @mansr, often says a product "meets specs" or is within a given specification. So if a amplifier that meets specs with all its possible building components that create that amplifier, yet is made from different types of building materials (cooper, silver, aluminium, plastic ect..) but still meets specs, could this be the difference in what we hear, given the amp meets spec and current standard measurements? You're missing the context where I've usually used that phrase. For things like USB and Ethernet cables, there are well-defined specs that a cable must meet, and any two that do will work equally well. There is no single specification for amplifiers; that would be ridiculous. Moreover, since an amp is an analogue device, there is no simple distinction between working and not working. crenca, ShawnC and Teresa 1 2 Link to comment
mansr Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, kennyb123 said: Would it be fair to say that you consider it unethical to make exaggerated claims based on pseudoscience? Wouldn't you agree with that? Link to comment
mansr Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, kennyb123 said: Not necessarily. Context needs to be considered. Note the claim that @plissken made: "When products are championed in the market place that are proven empirically to have no possible impact on audio." This is an exaggerated and false claim based on a misunderstanding of the proper application of null results. Hold on, I thought we were talking about Ted Denney. Or maybe Bill Lowe. You know, the kind of person who uses pseudoscience to promote products of questionable value. Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted December 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, kennyb123 said: Does that mean you approve of plissken's use of pseudoscience to make his outlandish claim? Have you stopped beating your wife? crenca and kennyb123 1 1 Link to comment
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