Jump to content
joelha

Article: Guest Editorial: Why did audio stop being about audio?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

We have the never ending subjectivist/objectivist argument.

 

Going back to the beginning of reproduced sound, which group was most responsible for bringing us to the current state of affairs.

 

I can just imagine:

Bell: "Come here Watson, I need you".

Watson: Wow! That sounds like shit".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, 4est said:

Not to pick on you in particular, but to me this statement is the gist of what the OP was getting at. I have an engineering background and would love to be purely objective. At present there are not measurements(or understanding of them) that will describe exactly how something will sound. Until such time, I will need to use both ob/subjective methods to determine the quality of playback I achieve, and whether I will do something about it. I, and likely many others, resent being described as irrational because we refuse to relinquish subjectivity until then. As Miska has pointed out, things can measure comparably but sound different.

 

Well stated.  However, I think you have made an error.  A rational and balanced explication of the real subjective/objective elements of audio is not the "gist" of what the OP was getting at.  


Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, KeenObserver said:

We have the never ending subjectivist/objectivist argument.

 

Going back to the beginning of reproduced sound, which group was most responsible for bringing us to the current state of affairs.

 

I can just imagine:

Bell: "Come here Watson, I need you".

Watson: Wow! That sounds like shit".

 

My understanding of that process is that Watson said "what?" quite a bit before that happened. 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Yet, even here the stakes are something and not nothing.  For all but oligarchs, the pricing of audiophilia is significant.  The hucksterism and "who cares" subjectivism makes for a poisoned divide.  

 

Also we must remember the war on Christmas...that's important 😋

 

This has zero to do with actual pricing and everything to do with your background and point of view. The pricing of audiophilia has never been lower. Go to the Schiit website and have a look. Go to Benchmark's site and see what kind of engineering one can get for his money. Oligarch's wouldn't be caught dead spending this little. Looking through a telescope at only the most expensive items in any category of consumer goods will lead you to your conclusion. This isn't a sound method from which to conclude anything.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Well stated.  However, I think you have made an error.  A rational and balanced explication of the real subjective/objective elements of audio is not the "gist" of what the OP was getting at.  

 

Based on your comments in this thread, I don't believe you have any idea what the OP was getting at. Please stop suggesting otherwise. 

 


Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing Polestar | Quick Community Reviews and Ratings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, wgscott said:
1 hour ago, mansr said:

I'd say lying is making a statement contrary to what one believes to be true.

What if one believes something false to be true?

Then stating the opposite is still (morally) a lie, even though the statement itself is (factually) true.

 

20 minutes ago, wgscott said:

I think there has to be intent to mislead or deceive.

Sure, it could be sarcasm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mansr said:

It seems like a lot of people are misunderstanding the article. Perhaps the OP should have expressed himself better.

There is always room for that, but I wouldn't doubt some are purposely misunderstanding him and others have zero interest in understanding him. 


Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing Polestar | Quick Community Reviews and Ratings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Similar demographic to audiophiles. Maybe a bit older on average, age spans from early 20s to mid 80s. Average, without any real data to back this up, I'd say around 60. Predominantly male. World-wide.

 

more likely to own a tent, camper, RV, tripod, camera system...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Well stated.  However, I think you have made an error.  A rational and balanced explication of the real subjective/objective elements of audio is not the "gist" of what the OP was getting at.  

Respectfully, the OP has intimated that you do not seem to understand the gist of what he was attempting to convey. I was speaking to what I think he was trying to say. Perhaps I am off too? Regardless, it is my opinion that we would all get along together better if put more effort into how we as individuals communicate. It is not place to define anyone but myself. Labeling someone else(as irrational or most anything) is bound to cause problems. We were taught that in grade school.


Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Oligarch's wouldn't be caught dead spending this little

spacer.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 4est said:

Respectfully, the OP has intimated that you do not seem to understand the gist of what he was attempting to convey. I was speaking to what I think he was trying to say. Perhaps I am off too? Regardless, it is my opinion that we would all get along together better if put more effort into how we as individuals communicate. It is not place to define anyone but myself. Labeling someone else(as irrational or most anything) is bound to cause problems. We were taught that in grade school.

 

And respectfully as well, this statement could be summarized as "just ignore irrationality and everyone will get along".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Since you bring up Schiit, Jason Stoddard (co founder/owner) disagrees with you.  He said this just yesterday:

 

"...Someone once wrote that we should decouple ourselves from "the big crazy," which I believe is a great phrase for all the magical-thinking stuff. The problem is that "the big crazy" has been extremely influential in the business (a reviewer actually used Vidar with $20,000 cables--not kidding). But perhaps it is time to start the decoupling. Because I'm really really tired of having to hold my tongue when I'm shown yet another fuse that costs more than a Magni, ethernet cables that cost more than an Yggdrasil, or magic box that connects to nothing but somehow is supposed to improve the sound....Sorry to continue the derail, but this is an excellent point: the big crazy is holding audio back.  As soon as you start talking about cables/power supplies/stones/quantum resonance machines (or, for that matter, $20K preamps, $50K amps, and $500K speakers), sane people check out. You're crazy. And they're gone...."

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/magni-3-and-magni-3-heresy-released.8604/page-7#post-282025

 

The inescapable, sky is blue, cold hard fact is that this subjectivism we have been discussing is a fundamental part of "the big crazy".

 

Yet the OP and to a certain extent yourself believe that "the big crazy" is "innocuous" (to use the OP's description) and not only that, the "the big crazy" is the very ground of audio (and its civil discussion) itself.  

 

I should add that thread is about the "radical objectivism" of Amir and ASR, the use and abuse of measurements, etc.  It's a "both/and", etc.  At the risk of offending certain objectivists here, I agree with this, @4est, etc.  Still, the overwhelming status quo in audiophildom is not objectivism, but an off the rail "big crazy" subjectivism for all the known reasons...


Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, 4est said:

Respectfully, the OP has intimated that you do not seem to understand the gist of what he was attempting to convey. I was speaking to what I think he was trying to say. Perhaps I am off too? Regardless, it is my opinion that we would all get along together better if put more effort into how we as individuals communicate. It is not place to define anyone but myself. Labeling someone else(as irrational or most anything) is bound to cause problems. We were taught that in grade school.

 

As I said initially, the OP's thought is confused and confusing.  That said, he clarified his essential "radical subjective" gounding when he affirmed that it and only it is "innocuous" and the ground of civility in audio, so I don't know what more effort needs to be put in to see that there is a fundamental disagreement here.


Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

If someone believes Santa Claus...

 

So, this forum is not the place to disabuse someone of the belief that Santa Claus actually exists?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

 I can see how one would be turned off by the mention of religion.  

 

That isn't the issue.  The real issue is false equivalence - that science is somehow another type of religion.

 

It isn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

 

Someone pissed in your Cheerios, hunh?

is that your Keen Observation?

I think it pales in comparison to the 6 or 7 troll posters whoe are constantly venting their envy, and rage, against high performance audio manufacturers and the folks who are interested in improving the listening experience through better performing playback gear. Or otherwise, - whining on the internet....

 

"hunh?"

Is that darling? sweetie? or huh?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It isn't OK to follow a Muslim around and constantly tell them Muhammad isn't real every time they enter a masque.

What a crazy thing to do. There's ample evidence that Muhammad was a very real person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

I think it pales in comparison to the 6 or 7 troll posters whoe are constantly venting their envy, and rage, against high performance audio manufacturers...

 

I've been waiting for the "skeptics are envious peasants" trope to rear its ugly head, and there it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I've been waiting for the "skeptics are envious peasants" trope to rear its ugly head, and there it is.

 

He even worked in the "folks who disagree with me are trolls" argument.


Girl, you want it, you take it, you pay the price

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...