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Article: Guest Editorial: Why did audio stop being about audio?

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2 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Pot, meet kettle.

Among a couple dozen other posts with mostly factually incorrect things you said about our new product, there was this gem you wrote specifically about John Swenson (who designed the power networks inside large, sophisticated chips for 3 decades). You wrote:

 

That's the thing with anyone selling such products. They must be either incompetent or dishonest. There are no other options. Oh wait, they could be both.

 

Sadly, the above barely makes it into the top 10 insults hurled at us recently over in that uncivil and intellectually uncurios place.

Yes, I said that, but don't flatter yourself. It applies equally to John Swenson, Gordon Rankin, Ted Denney, and anyone else making/selling devices that demonstrably do nothing.

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5 minutes ago, joelha said:

All I get is a link back to the article.

 

Sorry, but I still don't see it.

 

Joel

 

The BB auto-formats the link I fed it.  If you click the "wgscott replied to a topic" link just above where it says "52 minutes ago", you will get the post.  In it, I highlighted the specific text.  It might be easier for me just to do it again.

Screen Shot 2019-12-10 at 9.32.11 AM.png

 

 

It is the same thing I think as what Chris (correctly) identified as being problematic.

 

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4 minutes ago, joelha said:

I'm afraid of nothing on this forum.

 

Apparently, you get offended when you're confronted with a calm, rational article you disagree with.

 

I agree with the calm part of your self-assessment.

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1 hour ago, mansr said:

Think of it as signal to noise ratio. In today's hi-fi market, there is so much noise (snake oil) that it is difficult to find the signal (honest products that simply do what they say for a reasonable price). There's a hi-fi store a couple of blocks from my house. They sell only snake oil interconnects (AudioQuest and such), and the salesmen say silly things about silver. This isn't even a "high end" store. If I need an interconnect, my options are to buy bulk cable and mount connectors myself, or I can take my chances on Amazon with the risk of being scammed in the other direction (cheap crap that falls apart if you look at it the wrong way). Do you find this situation desirable? I do not.

Well there are other alternatives to your example. There is Bluejeans cable and a couple of other online vendors who make quality cables of all types to order. More expensive than cheap clam shell stuff, but only tens of dollars instead of hundreds. BlueJeans even measures every cable to prove it 's up to spec and include the measurement with the shipment. No "silver" or "quantum" cables need apply. Based on stock like Belden and a few other reputable types. 


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Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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52 minutes ago, wgscott said:

This "editorial" is essentially just another (albeit officially-sanctioned) troll-thread designed to bait "objectivists" and possibly to increase site traffic (and therefore advertising revenue).

 

Really? How does that work? Maybe @The Computer Audiophile can comment on this because, AFAIK advertising rates here are fixed price, per year, for different sizes and placements, and having seen the rate sheet they have not changed much over the past 3 years.

So more traffic here does not result in more revenue for the site. Though it might increase traffic to those of his advertisers.

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1 minute ago, wgscott said:

 

The BB auto-formats the link I fed it.  If you click the "wgscott replied to a topic" link just above where it says "52 minutes ago", you will get the post.  In it, I highlighted the specific text.  It might be easier for me just to do it again.

I found it, Bill. Thanks.

 

And I think you're conflating "disagree" with "offense".

 

And if you're really offended by that comment, I'm not sure how ideas (not personal insults) can be offered on this site without risking your being offended by them.

 

Joel

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5 minutes ago, joelha said:

I'm afraid of nothing on this forum.

 

Apparently, you get offended when you're confronted with a calm, rational article you disagree with.

 

If you think there's parity between that and calling specific people dishonest, then our view of reality is very different.

Take a look in the mirror:

Quote

What bothers me most is reputations are attacked so casually. Everyone from Chris Connaker (one of the most decent people I’ve known in the industry) to reviewers and manufacturers are accused of lying, cheating and taking bribes. People, whom I suspect in most cases haven’t even heard the product they’re attacking, will smear the reputations of others they probably don’t know. Those who are attacked rely on their reputations to earn a living. That’s to say nothing of the personal attacks on the listeners themselves. And the attackers attack anonymously. Unless the case is black and white i.e. I sent you money and you never shipped my product or there are repeated, unresolved product defects, trying to ruin a person’s name is evil. Nothing will undo a person’s life faster and more effectively than giving him a bad reputation. And doing it anonymously and without hard evidence is cowardly and arrogant. In such cases, it’s highly likely the charge is far more unethical than the action being charged.

 

Those are some pretty strong accusations.

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4 minutes ago, firedog said:

Well there are other alternatives to your example. There is Bluejeans cable and a couple of other online vendors who make quality cables of all types to order. More expensive than cheap clam shell stuff, but only tens of dollars instead of hundreds. BlueJeans even measures every cable to prove it 's up to spec and include the measurement with the shipment. No "silver" or "quantum" cables need apply. Based on stock like Belden and a few other reputable types. 

BlueJeans are also not a viable option in Europe due to shipping costs.

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3 minutes ago, mansr said:

Take a look in the mirror:

 

Those are some pretty strong accusations.

You're right. But the term was "offense".

 

Please tell me, of the paragraph you quoted, what you consider offensive.

 

Joel

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13 minutes ago, mansr said:

The entire article is little more than a parade of insults and accusations directed at a caricature of those you disagree with. You didn't name anyone explicitly, but you didn't need to. We all know who you had in mind.

 

My question to you (and Chris) is, what are you so afraid of?

 

I don't have any fear, I just want to see people enjoy themselves here. I suppose one could catastrophize and say I fear subjective AS users being run away from the site by an objective mob and I end up living in a van down by the river, but that's not based in reality for me. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

The bit quoted here, especially that which I set in bold-faced:

 

But let me add that I am glad you formulated your position in this way, because it gives invaluable insight into how at least one "subjectivist" proponent sees the opposition.

 

I think everyone should see value in his honest editorial. If one doesn't agree at least it shows the reasoning and thought process of someone who doesn't think like you. It's all valuable. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

Really? How does that work? Maybe @The Computer Audiophile can comment on this because, AFAIK advertising rates here are fixed price, per year, for different sizes and placements, and having seen the rate sheet they have not changed much over the past 3 years.

So more traffic here does not result in more revenue for the site. Though it might increase traffic to those of his advertisers.

 

Given this is the lucrative world of niche online publishing, I expect to be swimming in my gold coins, a la Scrooge McDuck, later this evening because of this editorial. Honestly, I don't even take Bill's speculation seriously. 

 


Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing Polestar | Quick Community Reviews and Ratings

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3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I think everyone should see value in his honest editorial. If one doesn't agree at least it shows the reasoning and thought process of someone who doesn't think like you. It's all valuable. 

 

I agree with that, completely (and said so, above).

 

 

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Given this is the lucrative world of niche online publishing, I expect to be swimming in my gold coins, a la Scrooge McDuck, later this evening because of this editorial. Honestly, I don't even take Bill's speculation seriously. 

 

OK, maybe it is merely because it is entertaining to periodically stir up the animals, especially when 11 months of winter have returned...  

 

As someone else mentioned, it sure beats TV.

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1 hour ago, mansr said:

Same thing. Why settle for 10% (or 100%) margin when you can have 10,000%?

 

Perhaps we're saying fairly similar things. If "high end" cable didn't exist, audio stores would have to create it.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> wi-fi to router -> EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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56 minutes ago, firedog said:

Well there are other alternatives to your example. There is Bluejeans cable and a couple of other online vendors who make quality cables of all types to order. More expensive than cheap clam shell stuff, but only tens of dollars instead of hundreds. BlueJeans even measures every cable to prove it 's up to spec and include the measurement with the shipment. No "silver" or "quantum" cables need apply. Based on stock like Belden and a few other reputable types. 

Blue Jeans cable also terminates and distributes the Belden Iconoclast cables which are very pricy compared to the standard offerings.  Who knows if they double dog blind tested them.
 

Fire up the pickup trucks boys, we’ve got another cross to burn.

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13 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is how I feed my family. 

 

A few days ago you said you didn't care about making any money from your site - it was only about the audiophile community

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1 hour ago, joelha said:

I'm afraid of nothing on this forum.

 

Apparently, you get offended when you're confronted with a calm, rational article you disagree with.

 

If you think there's parity between that and calling specific people dishonest, then our view of reality is very different.

 

Joel

 

I certainly do not find your article calm or rational.

 

It's been a few days, so would you look at it again and see if you don't think it is just a tad over the top?

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29 minutes ago, vmartell22 said:

 

Of course - that's exactly what I said.  And that is the expression of one side of the argument trying to  change the framework... so they can have an argument... otherwise... well... 

Again, gravity does not care if you don't believe in it... you will fall.

But the reaction to your post if correct - veering off topic - last thing I will say on the matter.

v

No offence meant and I'm not trying to have an argument. I'm not sure what it would mean to veer off topic on this thread! 😱

 

Of course you are correct about gravity, I'll be taking the lift leaving work today not jumping out the window... Context is everything however. In relation to the topic of this thread only I responded to your statement 'Science is not a belief system' as I am genuinely interested in how any belief whether defined by oneself or others as 'scientific', 'objective', 'subjective' etc frames how we see the world and what the motive is when we express ourselves. I have met very few people who are honest about this but maybe I don't get out enough 🤣. Just my thing... which I have spent a life time studying.  

 

In the interest of this thread the arguments over the usual audiophile issues (dare I say subjectivist/Objectivist 😅) are not very interesting to me except the first few times I read them. What I find of interest is that in a conversation in person or online, there are different contexts being held, expressed and offered by each contributor. We affirm, bond with, react for or against whatever is our preference. When we are not understood or listened to seems to raise the thermometer pretty rapidly. Flexibility, openness, not being fixed, not needing to be right is hard won. 

 

I think a question has been genuinely posed in this thread about how to solve the riddle of conflict which is small potatoes on here between individuals in the grander scheme of things but the same underlying issues are of increasing concern in our hyper connected/disconnected world and in larger political social arenas when fuelled by power... Like I said my thing... 🙏


ATL DC Blocker > Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > Sine SA5 Cryo 5 power strip > EtherRegen switch powered with Ciunas Supercaps 7.5v LPS > Antipodes DXe roon core> PS Audio Directstream Junior Dac 'Windom'> Decware SE84UFO3 Mono Amps > Omega Super Alnico Monitors. PH SR4 power supplies. In addition my reference SQ is a modified SD card Player powered by Ian Canada LifePo4/Ultracaps mod outputting 2x 3.3v > I2S module > PS Audio DAC.

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39 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Hey,  Liverpool is playing now ... that is real Religion live on TV
Cheers, Tom

 

what brand of video cable are you using?

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