Article: Guest Editorial: Why did audio stop being about audio?

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44 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

For measurements, it is not clear to me that there is a set of practical measurements a consumer can look to that determines that the SQ of one good DAC, pre-amp or amp is better than another.  For speakers, yes.  I am also not saying that there is not a set of such measurements that can be made.  And, there are nice looking tube amps from one of the suspect countries that that distort badly.

 

For listening tests, they are not the horrible time-eater that they are made out to be.  They are quite easy and require only a willing 2nd person -- and a wife or gf is often delighted to debunk your hearing claims.

 

Science is not a belief system, and comments to that effect above are not correct.

 

For religion, I like to "ride side-saddle on the golden calf"

Measurements of speakers falls into the same camp for me of:  the measurements only correlate to part of the experience.

 

A Martin Logan Electrostat may measure flat as can be across it's frequency response the same as a dynamic driver speaker could, identically even.  But the way ESL's present the music with their technology is so fundamentally different that it ends up being a completely different experience altogether, despite an identical tonal balance.

 

 

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I think that some portion of it is the wealth inequality gap and the overall discontent that breeds. 

 

When people see others discussing HiFi gear (say $600 network switches) that they will never have the disposable income to buy, it feels good to "take that guy down a peg".  Armed with double blind test results often from decades ago, away they go at telling him his cables/dac/amp etc. are all a giant rip-off.  They derive great satisfaction that blind tests and measurements say that their $9 Apple dongle DAC would be indistinguishable from a $100,000 DCS stack.

 

There is a great article in this month's Stereophile by Jim Austin called "Slow Listening"  that discusses scientific research about the brain's actual bandwith to process incoming data, and how great a liability this could be under a typical blind audio test.  I highly recommend it those in either camp.  

 

As long as a double blind test is considered to be the only valid method of proving sonic differences in objectivist's eyes, the debate will rage on and it will continue to be used as a cudgel against all opposition.  I suspect someday we will understand exactly why these double blind tests often fail to uncover the differences that are exposed under long term casual listening.

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19 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

I'm super interested where you read that at. Please post a link.

Not sure if I'm allowed to post a link to your home turf or not.

 

This is plucked out of a 24 page thread agreeing with this sentiment in general:

 

"The iPhone dongle from Apple measures exceptionally well as a DAC. So yeah, "doesn't sound terrible and just works" for sure. But I'd also add, "will sound the same as high priced, well-engineered DACs."

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8 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Mostly my push back involves unsupported manufacturer claims.

I understand the sentiment.

 

Wouldn't it be more rewarding to be a crusader for the consumer if it were directed at something that actually affected people's lives?  For example predatory lending, credit cards, etc.?

 

 

I can only estimate the number of people who were persuaded by HiFi marketing, bought the product, and were unhappy and unable to return said product to be .000000001% of the population.

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10 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

How did you obtain that estimate?

 

and how do you know he doesn't already do those other things?

I created that estimate myself.  I am actually a professional estimator.  😉

 

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1 hour ago, esldude said:

Actually they don't measure close to the same at all.  In a myriad of ways.  So the measurements agree with the listening in this case.  I'm not claiming speaker measurements are a solved problem, but they'll detect an ESL from any box speaker. 

That’s an ad hominem.  The most frustrating of the replies.

 

There isn’t a measurement I know of that gets to the mechanics of speaker design and whether you prefer the box less (and balls-less imo) sound of an ESL vs. a sometimes boxy but more dynamic sound of drivers moving air.  I’m not talking spinorama stuff or the poor off axis response ESL’s are known for.

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13 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Are you serious? A statement about speakers measuring differently is an ad hominem? I must be in an alternate universe, there's no other explanation

 

 

Yes, I never argued that ESL and dynamic driver speakers measure the same.  That is the literal definition of an ad hominem.

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8 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

No. A literal definition of ad hominem is a personal attack in place of an argument about the subject. You were not attacked in any way that I can see by Dennis' statement.

 

You are absolutely right, lol.  What in the hell was I trying to come up with, straw manning perhaps?  I don’t even know anymore!  Who gives a shit.

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Bing Crosby voice:  Happy Holidaaaaays!

 

😀😀😀

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56 minutes ago, firedog said:

Well there are other alternatives to your example. There is Bluejeans cable and a couple of other online vendors who make quality cables of all types to order. More expensive than cheap clam shell stuff, but only tens of dollars instead of hundreds. BlueJeans even measures every cable to prove it 's up to spec and include the measurement with the shipment. No "silver" or "quantum" cables need apply. Based on stock like Belden and a few other reputable types. 

Blue Jeans cable also terminates and distributes the Belden Iconoclast cables which are very pricy compared to the standard offerings.  Who knows if they double dog blind tested them.
 

Fire up the pickup trucks boys, we’ve got another cross to burn.

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37 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Yes I did.

 

Shunyata

Black Cat

Audioquest

 

If he shilled for the "privilege" of referring to the company principals by their first name, how would that look different to a consumer than shilling for actual money?

 

I got more

 

George Cardas

Caelin Gabriel

Chris Sommovigo

 

I say again, the polar opposite of consumer advocacy.