Article: Guest Editorial: Why did audio stop being about audio?

[mansr]

19 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

As I've said before, it's almost like you think "real" innovation is inversely proportional to "snake oil." If we have more of one we can't have more of the other. I believe you can get all you want of both.

Think of it as signal to noise ratio. In today's hi-fi market, there is so much noise (snake oil) that it is difficult to find the signal (honest products that simply do what they say for a reasonable price). There's a hi-fi store a couple of blocks from my house. They sell only snake oil interconnects (AudioQuest and such), and the salesmen say silly things about silver. This isn't even a "high end" store. If I need an interconnect, my options are to buy bulk cable and mount connectors myself, or I can take my chances on Amazon with the risk of being scammed in the other direction (cheap crap that falls apart if you look at it the wrong way). Do you find this situation desirable? I do not.

[mansr]

8 minutes ago, Jud said:

@mansr may despair of finding adequate cables, but I've had no such difficulty; just bought some nice light flexible Monoprice Ethernet cables from Amazon, recommended here by a “subjectivist.”

Good for you. In my experience, Amazon is always something of a gamble. Even when buying a familiar brand, you have zero assurance that you're not getting a fake product. Granted, your odds are better than on Ebay, but it's still not great. Buying from Monoprice directly isn't a sane option in Europe as they want nearly $40 in shipping for a $3 cable (checked just now).

 

Now I wouldn't say I "despair" when it comes to cables. I am able to procure what I need. I'd still much prefer if I could simply pop into the store (it's a 5-minute walk) and get them. That I can't is a direct result of the snake oil infestation in the audio industry.

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, wgscott said:

What about the sound of a grounding box full of sand?

Before or after you stub your toe on it?

[mansr]

18 minutes ago, Jud said:

Is it, or is it that they can't make enough margin on inexpensive cables anyway?

Same thing. Why settle for 10% (or 100%) margin when you can have 10,000%?

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, joelha said:

I wrote in hopes of trying to explain the behaviors I find offensive.

Well, I find your "hit piece" rather offensive.

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, joelha said:

Please name s single line or paragraph you find as offensive or even close to being as offensive as if I made a personal negative reference about you.

The entire article is little more than a parade of insults and accusations directed at a caricature of those you disagree with. You didn't name anyone explicitly, but you didn't need to. We all know who you had in mind.

 

My question to you (and Chris) is, what are you so afraid of?

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Pot, meet kettle.

Among a couple dozen other posts with mostly factually incorrect things you said about our new product, there was this gem you wrote specifically about John Swenson (who designed the power networks inside large, sophisticated chips for 3 decades). You wrote:

 

That's the thing with anyone selling such products. They must be either incompetent or dishonest. There are no other options. Oh wait, they could be both.

 

Sadly, the above barely makes it into the top 10 insults hurled at us recently over in that uncivil and intellectually uncurios place.

Yes, I said that, but don't flatter yourself. It applies equally to John Swenson, Gordon Rankin, Ted Denney, and anyone else making/selling devices that demonstrably do nothing.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, joelha said:

Sorry, but I still don't see it.

Perhaps you need a more resolving Ethernet cable.

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, joelha said:

I'm afraid of nothing on this forum.

 

Apparently, you get offended when you're confronted with a calm, rational article you disagree with.

 

If you think there's parity between that and calling specific people dishonest, then our view of reality is very different.

Take a look in the mirror:

Quote

What bothers me most is reputations are attacked so casually. Everyone from Chris Connaker (one of the most decent people I’ve known in the industry) to reviewers and manufacturers are accused of lying, cheating and taking bribes. People, whom I suspect in most cases haven’t even heard the product they’re attacking, will smear the reputations of others they probably don’t know. Those who are attacked rely on their reputations to earn a living. That’s to say nothing of the personal attacks on the listeners themselves. And the attackers attack anonymously. Unless the case is black and white i.e. I sent you money and you never shipped my product or there are repeated, unresolved product defects, trying to ruin a person’s name is evil. Nothing will undo a person’s life faster and more effectively than giving him a bad reputation. And doing it anonymously and without hard evidence is cowardly and arrogant. In such cases, it’s highly likely the charge is far more unethical than the action being charged.

 

Those are some pretty strong accusations.

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, firedog said:

Well there are other alternatives to your example. There is Bluejeans cable and a couple of other online vendors who make quality cables of all types to order. More expensive than cheap clam shell stuff, but only tens of dollars instead of hundreds. BlueJeans even measures every cable to prove it 's up to spec and include the measurement with the shipment. No "silver" or "quantum" cables need apply. Based on stock like Belden and a few other reputable types. 

BlueJeans are also not a viable option in Europe due to shipping costs.

[mansr]

Just now, joelha said:

Please tell me, of the paragraph you quoted, what you consider offensive.

All of it.

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

what brand of video cable are you using?

That's unimportant as long as the Ethernet isn't the old kind with Manchester coding.

[mansr]

30 minutes ago, tmtomh said:

So for example if you take the claims made by pretty much every premium cable manufacturer/vendor for why or how their cables improve the sound, those claims can be tested.

Only insofar they mean anything at all. The extra funny part is that when they do, they often contradict one another. As with religions, all of them can't be right.

[mansr]

This is as good a place as any to post this link: Your Glorified Ignorance Wasn't Cool Then, And Your Scientific Illiteracy Isn't Cool Now

 

Quote

Of course, not everyone knows all (or even most) of these answers. It’s impossible, in this day and age, to be an expert in all possible things. Most of us learn this at an early age: that most of what is known to humanity is not known to us as individuals, and that we can either study to gain that expertise and learn it, or go find the appropriate expert to learn what the answer is from them.

At least, that’s how you behave if you’re genuinely interested in learning the actual answer. You’ll either undertake the research yourself to reach expert-level competence, where you’ll learn how to perform critical tests and experiments that determine the answer, or you can learn to discern whose expertise is worth listening to and why, and then to take that expert advice. That’s how you gain meaningful knowledge.

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, wgscott said:

I agree with the "calm" part of the (subjective) self-assessment.

As do I. It's the respectful part I find wanting.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, joelha said:

Since you don't me, how do you know my prejudices?

It doesn't take much effort when you wear them like a badge of honour.

[mansr]

9 hours ago, crenca said:

Somehow @austipop is not reading the same article the OP wrote,

It seems like his main reason for that post was to boast about the size of his ignore list. That's a behaviour I shall never understand.

[mansr]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

In this HDtracks example, if Lee had no idea the deal fell through and there was a lawsuit ongoing, the chances that he was lying are slim to none.

If Lee had no idea what was going on, he's not nearly as good a friend of the Cheskys as he imagines.

[mansr]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

I disagree. Lying is not "simply making a false statement." 

I'd say lying is making a statement contrary to what one believes to be true.

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Based on your comments in this thread, I don't believe you have any idea what the OP was getting at.

It seems like a lot of people are misunderstanding the article. Perhaps the OP should have expressed himself better.

[mansr]

20 minutes ago, wgscott said:

1 hour ago, mansr said:

I'd say lying is making a statement contrary to what one believes to be true.

What if one believes something false to be true?

Then stating the opposite is still (morally) a lie, even though the statement itself is (factually) true.

 

20 minutes ago, wgscott said:

I think there has to be intent to mislead or deceive.

Sure, it could be sarcasm.

[mansr]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

There is always room for that, but I wouldn't doubt some are purposely misunderstanding him and others have zero interest in understanding him. 

If making a controversial point, it is all the more important to do so clearly.

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It isn't OK to follow a Muslim around and constantly tell them Muhammad isn't real every time they enter a masque.

What a crazy thing to do. There's ample evidence that Muhammad was a very real person.

[mansr]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It seems like you guys think your saving the Earth from the next great plague. I'm all for calling out anti-vaxxers because people are literally dying. HiFi is entertainment. There hasn't been a death yet.

Maybe there haven't been any deaths (yet), but some of the crazy products are actually fire hazards and probably illegal to sell.

[mansr]

17 minutes ago, ARQuint said:

my dear friend Peter McGrath

And there it is. The name-drop. What took you so long? Perhaps you need to take some instruction from Master Lee.