Mains Power Cord Recommendations For Zenith SE and/or Satement.

[Yorkshireman]

I'm currently looking for a new Mains power lead/cord and would be grateful if forum members could give there recommendations from there own experiences.

 

I currently have a Zenith SE but might upgrade to a statement in the future and so would be grateful for recommendations for either or both options.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Yorkshireman said:

I'm currently looking for a new Mains power lead/cord and would be grateful if forum members could give there recommendations from there own experiences.

 

I currently have a Zenith SE but might upgrade to a statement in the future and so would be grateful for recommendations for either or both options.

Any mains cord that is similar to those supplied with more powerful desktop computers should be suitable, as it is already using a Medical-grade Mains Filter. You may even have a suitable one laying around ?

[mansr]

Just now, Yorkshireman said:

just want to replace the standard power cable that came with my Innuos Zenith SE with something better.

Why? Better how? Unless your current power lead is getting noticeably warm, there is nothing wrong with it.

[kennyb123]

5 hours ago, Yorkshireman said:

I'm currently looking for a new Mains power lead/cord and would be grateful if forum members could give there recommendations from there own experiences.

 

I currently have a Zenith SE but might upgrade to a statement in the future and so would be grateful for recommendations for either or both options.

I’m guessing that those telling you the power cord for your Zenith doesn’t matter would likely tell you that the better power supply in your SE doesn’t matter either. 

 

I have a Zenith Mk2 Std and am using a Shunyata Alpha HC cord with it.  Shunyata has been on quite a roll lately - particularly when it comes to bang for the buck.  I think you’ll find good synergy with their NR (noise reduction) cords and the Innuos servers as both have similar aims:  reduce noise and bring more weight, fullness and naturalness the music.  The Shunyata cords are very neutral though so look elsewhere if you are looking for a cord to warm up the sound.

[sandyk]

16 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

I’m guessing that those telling you the power cord for your Zenith doesn’t matter would likely tell you that the better power supply in your SE doesn’t matter either. 

 

Well you would be very wrong in some cases . Most components of this calibre are normally designed to take into account mains cable vagaries etc. in their design. In this case they also have a Medical Grade filter which should help to take care of any RF/EMI coming in (and radiating out) via the mains cable.

However, there is nothing stopping you from trying an  expensive shielded mains cable of the same current capabilities (or higher) than the cable supplied by the manufacturer who designed it.

 You could also try fitting a couple of ferrite clamps on the existing mains cable

[The Computer Audiophile]

Thread cleaned up. 

[kennyb123]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Thread cleaned up. 

Great move, Chris.  
 

A while back you posted that our goal when posting should be to help increase our enjoyment of music.  Maybe you could post it again?  

 

Though maybe not as those who need to start abiding by it are the least likely to do so.

 

It has seemed to me for a while that there are really two very different forum communities under this one roof.  Participating in the curated forums are some of the kindest and most helpful people you’ll ever meet.  They share a common desire to improve their own listening enjoyment - and are eager to help others do the same.  The other community is of course comprised of the same folks - the difference being that there is a vocal minority that prowls about and seems not at all interested in improving their own listening enjoyment or anyone else’s.  
 

Why would the “power cords make no difference” crowd even think that a guy who owns a Zenith SE would care to hear from them?  It’s not like they ever say anything new - and yet they repeatedly swarm to the cable posts to repeat their same worn out talking points.  Is their motivation to help others increase their musical enjoyment?  Or is it to do the opposite and actually keep the discussion from heading in that direction?  
 

I appreciate you swooping in from time to time to get things back on track.

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

our goal when posting should be to help increase our enjoyment of music.

Yes, this is what AS is all about. 
 

I encourage people to use the “report post” function. It alerts me to posts immediately. It’s a great way for the community to work together to increase our enjoyment of this wonderful hobby. 
 

Thanks for your contributions to AS for the last (nearly) nine years. 

[Abyss Man]

7 hours ago, Yorkshireman said:

I'm currently looking for a new Mains power lead/cord and would be grateful if forum members could give there recommendations from there own experiences.

 

I currently have a Zenith SE but might upgrade to a statement in the future and so would be grateful for recommendations for either or both options.

Hi,

I'm currently using Tellurium Black PC on my Zenith Mk2. I did try the Silver Tellurium for about 3 days in my set up and guess what, I'm switching to the Silver cable. One thing to be forewarned, It takes quiet a while for them to settle in. Initially they sound a bit harsh and edgy, but once run in, it takes the Zenith to another level. U might also want to upgrade your fuse while u are at it. I'm using Blue SR fuse. These of course are just my personal impression YMMV. Happy listening Mr Yorkshireman. (Cool nick buddy).

[seeteeyou]

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/break-smartphone-addiction/

Quote

If you only interact with people online, you bully, you send out all sorts of bad vibes and never really get the feedback. You never learn to empathize. You never learn what it feels like to hurt someone. You end up having this blunted sense of how to interact with people, and that’s pretty damaging across lots of spheres.

 

 

This is what we get on the Internet these days when everyone could hide behind a keyboard, there will be no consequences whatsoever even if we're revealing our true colors

 

https://audiobacon.net/2019/11/02/the-jcat-signature-lan-a-1000-ethernet-cable/

Quote

Bob "Snake" Plissken on November 3, 2019 at 7:09 am

 

What kind of fucking moron do you have to be to fall for this scam? Are you really that retarded or did you invest in their stock perhaps and you’re now pushing this nonsense around?

 

Ironically JCAT didn't seem to be listed on NYSE or anywhere else, go figure.

[seeteeyou]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/388/?tab=comments#comment-879660  

On 9/26/2018 at 12:34 AM, austinpop said:

• Zenith SE: Note that I am already using an older Cardas Golden Cross power cable ($460 MSRP, bought on 50% sale) that I found to have made a big improvement over the stock cable back when the SE first arrived. So the swap was Golden Cross to Clear. Oh my word! Another dramatic improvement. This one I did not expect, as I was going from a good to a better cable.

 

[sandyk]

Seeteeyou

I have also heard a small improvement along with other listeners when  using a very expensive mains cable with big Nelson Pass Class A monoblocks, but for most people it's very hard to justify spending something like US$460 ( Or more) on a mains cable.  This area should be used more for the " icing on the cake" for those who can afford it, as there is normally a way bigger " bang for buck" with room treatment , speaker positioning etc.

 

Regards

Alex

  P.S.

 WRT your previous post, YIKES ! 

 

yikes

/jʌɪks/

exclamation

informal

exclamation: yikes

1. expressing shock and alarm, often for humorous effect.

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

Increasingly, it looks like the real goal when posting is increase enjoyment of confirmation bias

To edit your post to make it pertinent and avoid clashes....

 

"Increasingly, it looks like the real goal when posting is increase enjoyment of music playback"

 

Oh and this:

"This consumer protection / saving people from themselves is very misguided. It just doesn’t work and causes more problems than it solves. It’s also presumptuous that those reading want to be saved and that the comments can save them.  
Live and let live. Nobody is claiming HiFi gear will cause autism. "

 

[sandyk]

13 minutes ago, One and a half said:

To edit your post to make it pertinent and avoid clashes....

 

"Increasingly, it looks like the real goal when posting is increase enjoyment of music playback"

 

Gary

What we need is to take more note of #8 to avoid further thread disruption where the OP is clearly not interested in what the usual naysayers have to say.

[One and a half]

3 hours ago, sandyk said:

Seeteeyou

I have also heard a small improvement along with other listeners when  using a very expensive mains cable with big Nelson Pass Class A monoblocks, but for most people it's very hard to justify spending something like US$460 ( Or more) on a mains cable.  This area should be used more for the " icing on the cake" for those who can afford it, as there is normally a way bigger " bang for buck" with room treatment , speaker positioning etc.

 

Regards

Alex

  P.S.

 WRT your previous post, YIKES ! 

 

yikes

/jʌɪks/

exclamation

informal

exclamation: yikes

1. expressing shock and alarm, often for humorous effect.

It's almost as if the mains cable optimisation depends on the type of load.

For example to stop RF crud from say an SMPS load, use a shielded mains cable.

For a linear power supply, which draws current in lumps, the cable should be increased in conductor size to suit. 

If the load is a source, the power draw is not so significant, so a smaller than AWG12 is plenty. To cater for both circumstances, recently have used a DIY approach mainly for 3m+ cable in the form of this cable from McMaster Carr. This is a shielded only 18 AWG PTFE, Silver Plated Copper capable of 4.5A, 600V at 148C, more than current enough for sources, 120V or 230V. 

 

[One and a half]

10 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Gary

What we need is to take more note of #8 to avoid further thread disruption where the OP is clearly not interested in what the usual naysayers have to say.

please substitute naysayers to saviours

[sandyk]

7 minutes ago, One and a half said:

It's almost as if the mains cable optimisation depends on the type of load.

For example to stop RF crud from say an SMPS load, use a shielded mains cable.

For a linear power supply, which draws current in lumps, the cable should be increased in conductor size to suit. 

If the load is a source, the power draw is not so significant, so a smaller than AWG12 is plenty. To cater for both circumstances, recently have used a DIY approach mainly for 3m+ cable in the from of this cable from McMaster Carr. This is a shielded only 18 AWG PTFE, Silver Plated Copper capable of 4.5A, 600V at 148C, more than current enough for sources, 120V or 230V. 

 

I agree.

 It could be interesting to try it with a 3 pin plug at mains end and a 2 pin plug as usual at the SMPS device end

[One and a half]

34 minutes ago, sandyk said:

I agree.

 It could be interesting to try it with a 3 pin plug at mains end and a 2 pin plug as usual at the SMPS device end

This would contain crud and avoid a ground loop, or more importantly retain the double insulation properties of the SMPS, unless it has that rotten X cap fitted. For balanced AC, I've found that grounding both ends of the shield benefits, in that case, a strict star pattern for the mains cables is essential.

[Blackmorec]

I’ll get to power cords in a moment but confirmation bias has been coming up a lot lately so i decided to do some reading up on the scientific literature. While the science is mainly around linguistics and social aspects there is some around audio which makes fascinating reading.

Essentially everyone experiences confirmation bias because its a part of the way our brain works. We take in new information and process it using in part knowledge we already have. If we believe someone hates us, we will tend to see all their actions as threatening. Or in the Forum case, if we believe someone always posts rubbish, we’ll  tend to see all his posts that’s way, even when on occasion he may post something of value or consequence. So confirmation bias is something we meet all the time, every day, because its how our thinking works. 

So how does this work for audio? Does confirmation bias affect our judgement when it comes to evaluating audio? I’m afraid to say, yes it does. All the time.  If you buy a new power cable your value for money is entirely dependent on an uptick in sound quality, so that is obviously what you are hoping to hear when you take a listen. So lets walk through what happens. You plug in the new cable, play some well known music and your brain processes what you hear, using the new signal that reaches your ears and compares it to your stored memories of what things are supposed to sound like and you conclude that indeed the new cable is a distinct improvement from what you used before.  Now this conclusion is actually a judgement....based on what you remember, what you hope for and expect and what you now hear.  And what you hope for and expect is going to influence the outcome of that judgement. To illustrate in very basic terms

The judgement very basically comprises 

New sound vs stored memory = judgement of better or worse SQ

 

Confirmation bias does not alter the sound you hear, but what you hope for and expect can influence what you focus on in the new sound and influence the recollection of how you remember it sounding previously such that what you now hear is judged to be an improvement. 

 

BUT....BUT confirmation bias does not change WHAT you hear. It doesn’t add more of anything....mentally you can’t enhance Beethoven, improve the string tone and complexity of a violin or reproduce the ambience and reverberation of St Martin-in-the-Fields.  What it can do is focus on a particular element of the music, compare that focus to a memory and conclude that what you’re hearing is either new (it wasn’t there before) or improved (it wasn’t this good before)

In other words, confirmation bias, helped by your positive hopes and expectation can pick out pieces of the music on which you haven’t previously focused and position that focus as an improvement.

 

So, can confirmation bias make you believe that a new cable sounds better than an existing cable? In a word, yes. 

But, like I said, confirmation bias is not creating music or anything new.....you may be imagining an improvement, but your imagination doesn’t create the improvement by adding something to what you hear. You are simply concentrating your attention on a particular part of the sound and imagining that its an improvement vs. your stored memory. 

 

So what can you do about it? 

Quite simple really. Confirmation bias is a sub-conscious phenomenon that happens automatically. You think you hear something new and improved so the question is;  is it new or is it something existing (already there with the old cable) that you have simply never really focused on before?  Turns out its easy to tell....you simply make the attention focus conscious and redo the comparison. 

Listen to the new cable and note specifically the improvements you’re hearing, then replace the old cable and listen for those exact same elements. If they’re present to the same degree then there’s obviously no improvement, but if they are absent or present to a lesser degree then the improvement is coming from the new cable. 

This comparison does not have to be blind, because blind testing using music is just as much confounded by unconscious attention focus, which can make comparisons very difficult.  A conscious, logical, sighted comparison based on the evaluation of specific elements of the music that you initially hear as improvements is the most reliable way to take confirmation bias out of the equation.   

So, having cleared that up, do power cables enhance the performance of the Innuos Zenith SE and Statement?  Both have medical grade filtered mains inputs i.e are designed to keep out mains borne noise that may either disrupt some internal processes like oscillators and clock timing and/or be passed through with the device output.  In my system I use a complete Synergistic Research cable loom...all cables are SR, so I do benefit from realising the complete SR ‘vision’ of what their cables are supposed to deliver.  When I first took delivery of the Zenith SE I used it extensively with the OEM cable and it sounded wonderful.....groundbreakingly good I would say.  Then I added an SR Black UEF Power Cord, which brought a nice uptick in the amount of low level detail, power and depth of the music.....overall the music got more body and substance. I have not tried any other cables. My system is powered from well optimised dedicated mains. I could imagine that a power cable would deliver more if it were used on straight house ring mains. As it stands, i thought the SR UEF Black was well worth the money I paid in terms of the SQ uplift it brought vs the OEM cable in a ‘controlled for conformation bias’ comparison 

[Yorkshireman]

Thanks for all of the replies so far on both sides of the notorious Mains Cable (power lead) debate. I'm a strong believer in Free Speech and that there is always more than one way to look at something.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Yorkshireman said:

Thanks for all of the replies so far on both sides of the notorious Mains Cable (power lead) debate. I'm a strong believer in Free Speech and that there is always more than one way to look at something.

I'll just say that "upgrades" should not be attempted without having some idea of what one hopes to achieve. Otherwise, how will you decide if it worked?

[Summit]

Yes everyone experiences confirmation bias. The thing is that if you listen at two for you totally unknown amps for examples. You will have very low bias towards any of them because you have no history with any of the company, don’t know its design principle, how it measure, what other people impression is, and you haven’t put in money or investment or have any other expectation on any of them. If OTOH we have two amps which we know a lot about. We will also have much more bias.

 

Some example bias:

• A person that for example believe that good measurements, equals good sound, will have a strong bias toward the amp that have better measurements.
• Another person may have read many reviews that says that one of the amps is the best they have ever heard and that the other amp is only ok sounding for its price. This person can have a strong bias toward the top reviewed amp.
• A third person believe that the price is a good indicator of the sound quality, at least if the difference in price is big. This person has naturally a strong bias toward the more expansive amp.  
• A fourth person look at the design and see that one is a tube amp and as his prior experience is that tube amps doesn’t sound accurate, this person has a strong bias against the tube amp.

We can of course have many different bias at the same time and the total confirmation bias is a kind of a summary of all of them. Not everyone let their bias inflict their final judgment from a listening test between two amps. We all have some experiences confirmation bias before the listening session, but not all are holding on to their bias equal much. To be as objective as possible and to see and hear everything with an open mind, is truly great quality that can differ widely between people.  

 

Let me give you one common example there I can interpret the SQ differently because of confirmation bias. The sound between two DACs differ so that one has a sharper more defined treble with more air and the other DAC have smoother more relaxed sound. The reason:

• It can be because the sharper sounding DAC adds EMI/HF noise for example.
• It can also be because the smoother sounding DAC aren’t accurate, is colored and role of in the treble.

To hear the difference is easy, to hear which is correct can be trickier and often takes some time, a well-known audio system and a lot of experience.

[Summit]

16 hours ago, Yorkshireman said:

I'm currently looking for a new Mains power lead/cord and would be grateful if forum members could give there recommendations from there own experiences.

 

I currently have a Zenith SE but might upgrade to a statement in the future and so would be grateful for recommendations for either or both options.

 

Search which power cables other that have chosen the same gear as you, Zenith SE and Statement, and see if you can borrow one from a dealer near you to try at home.  

[plissken]

By the way the below is not me:

 

Also I've no problem meeting as Axpona so I'm not hiding behind anything. 

[Ralf11]

Post the rest of gear & what you are trying to get rid of for more specific help.  Do you have a dedicated line?

 

I had my AC power checked for noise by the electric utility and there is a thread I started on here.  I am in an R-1 (single family houses) in the PNW US, and don't know what the power situation is in Yorkshire(?).

 

I'll say again that if an AC power cord on any decent, much less Linn level unit, is a cause of noise something is way wrong.

 

I saw some cables in the Audio Advisor catalog last night for > $1,000 - yet a Topaz isolation transformer (which really does work) can be had for only ~~ $600.  Balanced power supply units will cost more.

 

The plug mods above cost nothing or nearly so, and turning off certain LED lights, 'chopper' type light dimmers, and FL lights is free.

 

AC power cord swaps are not very worthwhile, and neither are different interconnects, tho using balanced connections is.