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UpTone EtherRegen measured. It's a switch.

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10 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:


Amir's measures are not the point, and the entire process is rubbish.

That's what I would expect from genuinely scientific society, which ASR claim to be:

Since you have hundreds of people reporting on SQ improvement when adding the ER, set up a blind test to validate the null hypothesis. It is met, search for an explanation, including the use of measurements.

That would highly constructive and a positive contribution.

But instead, what we get is Amir, who-the-hell-is-he, running some possibly irrelevant test in his basement, followed by his choir of acolytes screaming murder. Over and again, it seems the sole goal of the exercise is to mock and heap abuse on others for being biased and placeboed.

 

To recap, let's first establish a difference can be heard. Then look for an explanation. 

 

 

A convergence of top down and bottom up evidence has the best prospect of calming hawks and doves alike.

 

Personalities, dogma, did I say dogma ... we don't get anywhere ... ever ...


Disclaimer! I have not in the past, I do not now, and I am not likely ever to stream music from the internet.

System: here

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9 minutes ago, opus101 said:

 

A DAC's output can be quite different depending on what its connected to. By 'output' though I don't just mean its normal mode (signal) output (that likely won't change) but its common mode output, which will vary according to the common mode impedance presented to its output terminals. This isn't any fault of the DAC itself.

 

This is a test that can also be conducted -- with a full complement of equipment in a typical system. Doesn't negate the measurements results already posted, but there's a chance that isolation before the DAC may have some effect downstream of the DAC... or not.

 

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1 hour ago, opus101 said:

I don't have a view on what he should have done without knowing his intention. If I were the one testing the ER I'd not be using an AP on the output of an attached DAC, perhaps an SA (spectrum analyser) with tracking generator would be a starting point.

Assuming that the aim of the test was to support or to confute the claim that replacing a standard switch with an ER switch has a positive impact on the output of DACs, there is no logical flaw in the test. It is of course possible that the DAC(s) used and/or the testing procedure or the instrument downstream the DAC(s) were inappropriate. But, logically speaking, the test is correct. Has anybody by the way tried to reproduce Amir's results?

 

Just to put things in a perspective: I am a very happy user of UpTone Audio products (JS-2 and LPS-1.2) but I do not rely on wired Ethernet connections in my system. I'm following this thread just for the sake of curiosity: whether the ER has a positive impact on the output of a DAC or no impact is something I do not really care. 

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This topic is amusing at best

1. Side A - ASR followers, taken numbers into account without considering the testing methodology just the numbers and results

2. Side B - AS loyal followers which will share subjective opinions on which switch sounds best

3. Side C - People with common sense which won't follow either one of the above and just their knowledge and logic. These are the few, I have seen @One and a half and @Miska to state that Amir's methodology might be flawed since he is only playing tones and common sense makes me to concur with them as I kind of think the same based on previous testing he (Amir) have done with other products.

The best analogy I can find in real life related to this topic is religion, some believe this some believe that some believe nothing

 

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Just now, luisma said:

Amir's methodology might be flawed since he is only playing tones and common sense makes me to concur with them as I kind of think the same based on previous testing he (Amir) have done with other products.

 

Common sense can lead you astray. "Only playing tones" is exactly what a DAC does when playing music. There's nothing wrong with testing using "tones".

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Just now, pkane2001 said:

 

Common sense can lead you astray. "Only playing tones" is exactly what a DAC does when playing music. There's nothing wrong with testing using "tones".

I quite differ, common sense based on scientific knowledge IMO leads you right, FYI I was referring to "one" tone not actual music with "full spectrum", and I used the plural "tones" because the tone he played technically has a bandwidth which comprehend other "smaller" sub tones on the slopes.

So yes, since he is not playing music the devices tested and the testing itself is not completely exact

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For the record I don't take side with ASR nor AS, I don't own loyalty of opinions to anyone, I use Alex's products and I believe this make a difference on my system which by the way could perfectly be subjective as I have no way to measure it.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Religion and politics are very similar. Both of those lead to toxic discussions quite frequently. 

That's another good example and totally agree

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Honestly I have to say I am a big believer on "opposite sides" and polarity, ASR vs AS are great sites, I usually participate more here at AS because the pitchfork mob is moderate (ASR is IMO more fanatic and you could waste your time there easily)

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4 minutes ago, luisma said:

So yes, since he is not playing music the devices tested and the testing itself is not completely exact

Is it just me that finds an amusing irony in this criticism of the test method?  At least the test was done and the method and results were published...

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8 minutes ago, thumb5 said:

At least the test was done and the method and results were published...

and that is great I am not criticizing Amir at all, I think it is good what he is doing, but if you are going to do scientific testing it has to be "rigorous", don't you think it could have been more strict? unless someone here proves that it doesn't matter and that his testing is absolutely correct (with facts no assumptions) in which case I personally will retract from my "common sense" and "scientific knowledge" statement. Don't get me wrong I have the uttermost respect for what Amir's does it is just he could do that more convincing simulating an actual experiment.

Or the power he is using when testing, does he uses a power conditioner, is it always the same temperature, maybe Alex's switch works well for people subjected to noisy environments but some other people who lives in the middle of nowhere with no noise pollution (EMI/RFI noise) won't benefit from it. I honestly think it is hard to say.

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5 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Again I’m no expert in these matters but if I were looking to see if a device removed noise, i would inject a known quantity of noise into the device and look what comes out.

Indeed.  What kind of noise would you propose to inject into the switch, and how would you generate it?

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11 minutes ago, mansr said:

If the assembled experts all agree, why is that "bias"? Is it not at least as likely that they simply are right, what with being experts and all?

When I say bias, I don't man it in a way that says 2+2=4 for you but not laymen. I mean it in a way where the experts in any field can look at measurements and understand where they can be misleading and they understand how to drum up results that appear to show something major, but in reality it doesn't matter. To the layman THD+N on a spec sheet was as good as gold. To the expert it meant nothing. The experts don't have to let the laymen in on the THD+N joke.

 

The same goes for this testing. I'm sure there are many holes that laymen don't see, but I don't believe those who are out to get UpTone would ever mention them. 


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