UpTone EtherRegen measured. It's a switch.

[Jud]

3 hours ago, firedog said:

 

I don't like the tone of this thread or the one at ASR,  but it would be useful if someone could come up with a relevant response to Amir's measurements. So far only ad hominem attacks that are meaningless, and responses which avoid actually answering the questions raised: 

 

I think I am going to fall into the latter category. 🙂

 

I understand there is every probability what I think I'm hearing from my system with the ER is all in my head, completely subjective, a small black aluminum-clad placebo. I really do. And yet I'm getting so much enjoyment out of listening to music with this placebo effect that I do not care. I am very happy.

 

I am taking great pleasure in listening to my music, and am also perfectly happy to read all the measurements of the ER anyone wants to make. I read Amir's piece with interest. What I don't understand so much is why the people who enjoy listening and the people who are interested in measurements feel such a need to argue. Do you really think you're going to convince each other? Of course you don't, so all you're doing is wasting time arguing.

 

I'll be happily listening and watching for any additional measurements.

[Jud]

Just now, mansr said:

The real question is why Alex/Superdad is so deeply afraid of anyone discussing measured technical performance of his trinkets. Perhaps he is the one hiding something.

 

Oh, it must be something awful! A child porn ring in the basement of a pizza parlor, I bet!😱

 

😂😂

[Jud]

2 hours ago, thumb5 said:

For what it's worth, my view is that the argument arises because Uptone are using an appeal to technical authority to market the device, and both theory and (now) measurement suggest the technical argument is likely without merit.

People who have an engineering background and/or technical knowledge in the relevant domain quite reasonably get upset when "their" language and specific terminology is mis-used or mis-represented to sell a product.  I think that's what's putting the "heat" into the argument.

 

Since Uptone are using this technical marketing strategy, and say they have engineered the device to solve a specific problem, they should be able to present independently-repeatable measurements showing an objective "before and after" effect on the DAC output - that's to say, a demonstration both of the problem and the solution to it.

 

The argument could be brought onto a more rational level if Uptone were to provide the promised measurements.  The fact that these have not been forthcoming fans the flames because it (arguably) demonstrates that the engineering is not complete.

 

I appreciate the reasoned tone of your comment. Allow me to reasonably disagree. 🙂

 

It was clearly disclosed to every single one of us who purchased an EtherREGEN that it was based on an unproved hypothesis for which no measurements had been provided or even taken. This is a situation in which many people would decline to spend their hard earned cash, and I imagine that virtually all the people who feel that way did not purchase the EtherREGEN.

 

I feel that to go beyond declining to purchase and advising people clearly of measurements and their meaning, to language like "fan the flames," is putting forth effort toward feeling aggrieved, which makes no sense to me. How else should one put forward an engineering hypothesis, correct or incorrect, than in the language of engineering?

 

People who are skeptical have lost nothing, and are free as they wish to provide and discuss measurements. People who have purchased and decided they hear nothing that excites them have also lost nothing, since there is a 30-day full money back guarantee.

 

People who have purchased and are happy, however foolish and wrong they (I) may be - well, we're happy. 

 

As I said previously, these groups aren't going to convince each other.

 

So where a sense of grievance or "heat" or a need to argue come from, I don't know.

[Jud]

34 minutes ago, mansr said:

For whatever it's worth, I don't seen any signs of gameplay here.

 

I have no basis to assume anything wrong with the measurements themselves - I don't have the technical knowledge to judge. I note @Miska's comment about digital silence, but I don't know whether the particular DACs used in the testing behave in the way he describes, or precisely how the measurements were done.

 

Beyond the measurements there's a fair amount of unconfirmed innuendo regarding EMI radiation of an item that is labeled as being within acceptable parameters in that regard, and how operating temperature might relate to expected life, something UpTone clarified in advance of sale (that the unit runs hot, that this is within design parameters, and it is not expecting to shorten the operating life of the ER). To me this is innuendo and out the other (🙂), but it looks intended to insinuate rather than inform. It doesn't make the measurements inaccurate, but it does seem clearly indicative of bias.

[Jud]

49 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I would still like to know how all that noise gets past the transformers on wired Ethernet

 

There was a brief period during which my system as configured had audible noise if I used my laptop's SMPS.  Baaske Ethernet isolators audibly reduced the level of the noise, though they did not eliminate it.   http://baaske-medical.de/en/223-network-isolator-med-mi-1005.html

 

Running my laptop from the battery when I wanted to listen to music eliminated the noise entirely, until I shortly afterwards reconfigured the system to eliminate the noise with the SMPS plugged in. So though I cannot tell you how the noise gets across wired Ethernet (or perhaps more specifically, that wired Ethernet can be part of a system in which such noise exists, and additional Ethernet isolation transformers can reduce that noise), I can certainly tell you it does.

 

 

[Jud]

19 minutes ago, plissken said:

You can't back-peddle that a computer is a variable to eliminate when it's one of the variables the ER is supposed to correct for.

 

In the UpTone sponsored forum you can find them stating that having a general purpose computer between ER and DAC is not an optimal configuration.

 

In any event, this is getting down rather far into the weeds of a discussion that, as I noted before, seems to me to be rather a waste, since the folks who have the ER didn't demand measurements, and those who want to see measurements didn't buy the ER.

[Jud]

1 minute ago, plissken said:

 

I don't know about everyone here but my home network needs cannot be a router to a 5 port switch.

 

I don't recall anyone saying the ER and a single router could meet everybody's entire home network needs, so I'm guessing UpTone is comfortable not serving the segment of the market that would require it. 🙂

[Jud]

4 minutes ago, plissken said:

So the online forum is to trump their product page?

 

One you have to sift through pages and pages and one it's right there. Jud that's a stretch.

 

I don't believe these sources are exclusive to each other, but complementary. But if you feel it's a stretch, I certainly won't try to convince you otherwise. I won't succeed, and I'd only bother you in the effort. Kinda like what I've been saying about this whole business of dueling arguments between the "We want measurements" and the "We just wanna listen" folks. 🙂