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How can Vinyl still sound good compared to digital?


STC

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5 hours ago, PeterSt said:

So the issue is: the best original it is way too dynamic.

 Hi Peter

Yes. However, it can sound great on a top notch system in a quiet room, but it is also part of the reason why many prefer slightly compressed versions.

 

Regards

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I believe whenever we discuss a topic like this, there should be a basic set of facts from which to proceed. 

 

1. Formats can't be compared in a vacuum. All formats can sound as good as they sound bad.

2. "Good" has different meanings for everyone. 

3. "Better" doesn't really mean much.

4. Less distortion, better specifications, etc... have meaning.

 

Yes.

 

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

With this in mind, I think the discussion should be phrased in terms of "how or why is vinyl still relevant, given digital's superiority based on specs?"

 

 

Because sometimes, and in the past this was almost always the case, it is easier to get the 'tune' of the TT rig to a point where the distortions that matter to the listening brain are sufficiently reduced. The mind doesn't care about spec's; it reacts to an overall, 'summing up' of what it hears - and if enough boxes are ticked, then the vinyl setup will get the nod.

 

To me, vinyl in fine order "sounds the same" as CD - Led Zeppelin I yesterday, on an ordinary pressing, delivered very close to the full emotional grunt of my CD copy - the information is always there, locked in the grooves.

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30 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

At RMAF, I have heard a number of vinyl versions of older recordings sound considerably better than their digital versions played on the same high end systems.

 Hi Allan

 As many others have already noted , a " needle drop" digital copy of a Vinyl recording can sound virtually identical to the original Vinyl recording, so it is clearly a case of poor CD Mastering techniques.

 

Kind Regards

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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CD mastering can "do anything". As compared to what can be cut in the vinyl, and still allow the needle to follow the path. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the playback system to have the integrity to reproduce whatever was laid down, correctly - and not degenerate into unpleasantness "when the going gets tough!" ... this can be done, and ensures that far more is possible in terms of the sounds that can generated than many believe ... baby food recordings are not the answer, in my book ...

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I'm getting back to my old vinyl from the 70 & 80". Sold the 70's Thorens 145 MkII. Played with and just sold a Music Hall mmf 1.5. Now enjoying a beta Schiit SOL. I love tweaking it and can spend an hour happily playing with adjustments. When I play my wife's original copy of the The Wild & Innocent & E Street Shuffle that is something special. Some of the old albums sound like crap but there are a few gems in there. I'm really enjoying J.S. Ondara on vinyl. Records are once again a part of our listening routine.   

Nearfield setup-Matrix Element H USB>Curious Evolved>Yggy OG>Freya+>Mono Trys>Harbeth P3ESR 40th & Martin Logan Dynamo 1100X & Burson Soloist w/ Super Charger> Mr.Speakers Ether 2,& Technics 1500C, Arcromat> SoundSmith Carmen MkII > Zu Mission>Parks Puffin Toslink.. Blue Jeans interconnects, Pangea power cables, IsoAcoustics feet, Goldpoint SW2X

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Jud said:

Mostly LP doesn't sound as good as digital, if my experience at audio shows with stratospherically priced playback systems for both is any indication.

 

I am afraid I have to disagree with you on this one. I can't speak for all the LPs out there but I have done comparisons with Tracy Chapman on Clearaudio Statement TT vs Boulder and Esoteric digital. all of them driven by Krell Master Reference monoblocks. In a recent AV show I have also compared Norah Jones LP and digital (but I have to say it was a challenge to distinguish them).

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2 minutes ago, STC said:

 

Ignore the past. Take the best version of current vinyl and digital. Norah Jones and Tracy Chapman are good reference to do the comparisons.

Yea -- I am living in the past when it comes to the recordings that I am dealing with.  Even 'Shake it Off' and 'Call me, maybe' are almost 100% chance DolbyA, but not for the reasons of NR, but instead sound effect or compatibility.

 

I'll tell you though, considering the comments that I've gotten in the past "oh, this is a good one", subsequently finding out not-so-good.

 

I'll take your judgement at face value though.

 

John

 

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6 hours ago, John Dyson said:

If you send a link to a Dropbox (by email), then I can upload it directly into your account.   Don't send it through Dropbox, becuase then the upload will charge against my very small account.

 

I can create a folder in my onedrive where you can upload the original and your best decoded version.

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6 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Live music is involving and exiting without demanding anything from the listener and I want my hi-fi to sound the same way. 

 

That is the purpose of buying high end.

 

5 hours ago, gmgraves said:

However, vinyl  and, indeed, analog in general, has, inherent in it, a number of engineering compromises that introduce into the finished recording a certain euphonic "quality" that many people regard as being more musical than digital which they see as "sterile and soulless.

 

This is true. I have been a digital man for a long time although as a toddler I probably listened to the gramophone and vinyl more. I do not deny when you compare a good vinyl and digital playback via loudspeakers, you sense the vinyl sound to be fat and easier on the ears. Subjectively, you can prefer either one and asking audiophiles for such opinions usually tainted with prejudice. 

 

I was hoping to hear from headphone listeners because I suspect they may prefer digital.

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6 minutes ago, STC said:

 

Are you referring to my feedback? Can you point me where I have contradicted myself? If so I must be either going senile or deaf. :) 

(Please read my disclaimer that I'll take your comment at face value.) :-).

 

Dont misunderstand -- I am not so much an audiophile, but I work on audio processing.  I like music, but wouldn't be listening much if I wasn't working on it.  I never intend to challenge people -- unless they are wrong :-).

 

John

 

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6 hours ago, John Dyson said:

I only have so much space...  I have just completed IMO properly (differently) decoded cut 1 'School', and uploading it right now.

Even in the Quietest Moments is in progress right now.

 

If you send a link to a Dropbox (by email), then I can upload it directly into your account.   Don't send it through Dropbox, becuase then the upload will charge against my very small account.

 

The original is a feral-EQed DolbyA copy.  The corrective EQ is the hard part.

 

I don't think that the original will do anyone any good -- really.  Feral DolbyA is just yet another commonly available release that sounds compressed.

 

If you want to compare against anything -- find the vinyl, that is what the audiophiles were using for the basis to tell me if I hit the mark.

 

PS:  I just thought of possibly uploading a 128k mp3 for your reference.  It won't sound perfect, but would give you a basis for reference.  That would avoid filling up my Dropbox space (just trying to help!!!)

 

 

John

 

 

It was a joke, my friend - "you're bloody well right" is a well known lyric to a Supertramp hit. 🙂

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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9 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

It was a joke, my friend - "you're bloody well right" is a well known lyric to a Supertramp hit. 🙂

Okay -- I used to always get in trouble back in the email days back in the 1990s, got into flame wars often because of textual/contextual misunderstanding -- smiley was about as much emotion that could be expressed.   Linus blew up at me once when I was being nice -- that was hard to figure out!!!

 

I was in the middle of starting to upload the files to STC and found that onedrive doesn't seem to allow explicit file selection?  Is there a way?   I am used to Dropbox and the other smaller thing I used to use.   (I am scared to death to use my cards over the net -- I have gotten frauded too much.  Not paying for an account -- gotta remember to get one of those gift cards when I go to the store, then I can upgrade.)

 

John

 

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