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Phasure ET^2 Ethernet cable - Share your configuration experiences

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Aha ...

Very nice that you started this thread because I am sure I can use the results myself, having an EtherREGEN en route.

What's extra-convenient is that people will largely report about the same devices - A PC plus an Ethernet hub (I hope that name justifies the EtherREGEN).

 

At this moment I can't tell how people will use the EtherREGEN but I myself will be using it in between what we call the Music Server PC (holds the music files internally or externally) and the music playing Audio PC (obtains the music data via an Ethernet cable from the Music Server PC).

All together my chain will look like this:

 

Internet -> Modem -> Router -> Music Server PC -> EtherREGEN -> Audio PC.

 

While the above is the electrical path, there's also a functional+electrical path, going like this:

 

Tablet (/w RDC) -> WiFi -> Router -> Random Ethernet Cable -> Music Server PC (/w RDC) -> ET^2 (1) -> EtherREGEN -> ET^2 (2)-> Audio PC.

(the tablet in the end controls the Audio PC as a remote via this path).

 

May it help for understanding, this is my current path (no EtherREGEN involved yet):

 

Tablet (/w RDC) -> WiFi -> Router -> Random Ethernet Cable -> Music Server PC (/w RDC)  -> Random Ethernet Cable -> Audio PC.

 

Two remarks with this configuration / chain:

1. I don't allow WiFi in the Audio PC;

2. I don't connect the Audio PC to the router (don't want it hooked up to the Internet plus it is "slower" than the direct connection).

 

Curious how this thread will work out; thank you @FileMakerDev.

Btw, your ET^2 just came from the presses and will ship out in an hour or so ...

 

Peter

 

 

 

 


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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Thanks Peter, the ET^2 arrives today, and I am really looking forward to it. FWIW my audio chain is currently...

 

VortexBox > generic ethernet cable > EtherRegen > AQ Cinnamon > ultraRendu > Lush^2 > ISO-Regen > Lush^2 > Lampizator Big 7

 

...with the ET^2 replacing the AQ Cinnamon.

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Correction: the actual chain would be...

 

VortexBox > generic ethernet cable > hub > generic ethernet cable > EtherRegen > AQ Cinnamon > ultraRendu > Lush^2 > ISO-Regen > Lush^2 > Lampizator Big 7

 

...with hub also connected to a long ethernet cable running to a router at the other end of the room. That's probably more than I needed to share, but in the interest of full disclosure.

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First impression -- holy expletive deleted! This is so much better than I was expecting.

 

The ET^2 arrived this afternoon, and I've been listening nonstop for the last four hours with the default configuration. I had no real complaints re: the AQ Cinnamon, but now that I've heard the ET^2, the Cinnamon will be retired except for comparison purposes. And just to confirm I wasn't imagining things, I've swapped back and forth several times -- nothing else has changed, and I've made sure volume levels remain constant.

 

The sound with the Cinnamon is extremely dynamic and clear, with a nice open high end. Prior to swapping in the ET^2, the only drawback I was aware of was a slight harshness at higher volumes. Of course I didn't attribute that to the Cinnamon, however with the ET^2 the dynamics and high end are unchanged, but things are warmer, more engaging, "analog" sounding, relaxed and musical. The harshess is gone, the lower midrange and bass are improved, and I am listening at higher volumes than before in a state of rapturous enjoyment.

 

The sound stage is greatly improved, and I'm hearing tons of new microdetails and am more aware of the macro details... when singers harmonize, I'm more aware of each voice... each instrument is more clearly delineated... individual notes stand out distinctly and the sustain of piano notes and strings hover longer in the air. And I have never heard drums/percussion sound so right... the drum kit is there in front of me and I can "see" what the drummer is doing. I mentioned the lower midrange and bass a minute ago... there's some extra energy now in that region, and they are resonating in a way that is hard to describe but is quite compelling. Something I feel as much as hear.

 

To summarize: my system, which was already superb, is now more crankable and toe-tappingly musical than before. Eventually I will experiment w/ different configurations... for now I just want to listen... and listen... and listen.

 

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Ha !

 

Holy what was that ?

🤐

 

Well, welcome to your own thread and your own first poster !

 

For me it was quite challenging, knowing that a few weeks back I posted elsewhere something like "and we will see that despite the well thought design of the EtherREGEN an ET^2 cable will still make a difference. You could say that was against all odds, but knowing a little what forces are at play, the stipulation was not all over overdone.

And there we are.

 

Anyway, so yes, it makes a difference.

Didn't you try an other config ? ... not that I advise it (first let break in the lot a bit), but I am also eager to know whether like with your Lush^2 the configs for the ET^2 with the EtherREGEN involved, makes a difference. And I hope I am not too naughty if I say that I never used an ET^2 (or other boutique Ethernet cable) myself. As a matter of fact I should be ordering one, with my own EtherREGEN due.

 

Also funny: I have no clue as of yet what could be the difference in SQ. So I know what I did with / to the Lush^2, but the ET^2 is only a very best Ethernet cable with some shielding configurations. Nothing strange or out of spec or anything (OK, almost not ¬¬). But the largest bandwidth, so to speak (all theoretical and no figures to show). But merely: how (somehow) a connection like this can be under the influence of a cable - I must start thinking about it. As said, I expected it, but this is just general and merely because other people told me with all kinds of superlatives that it works out. Just the same I have no "feel" with it yet.

 

PS: From a reliable source I heard that you forgot to have dinner.

 


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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6 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

PS: From a reliable source I heard that you forgot to have dinner.

 

It’s true. Your product caused me to neglect my stomach. You will be hearing from my attorney tomorrow.

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18 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

Didn't you try an other config ?

 

I briefly experimented with a few, based on my notes from my Lush^2. In every case I preferred the default. It sounds so good I’m not incentivized to experiment further for the time being. 

 

But of course this topic is for discussing configurations, Presumably at some point someone will suggest one

 

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P.S. My housemate, who has been subjected to my ever-evolving stereo system over the last four years, and whose response is typically a terse "sounds good", volunteered this morning (after hearing the ET^2 last night), "Your system sounds the best it's ever sounded -- you shouldn't change a thing ever again."

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I too have an ET^2 cable replacing a gotham jssg360. More musical in default config  but have no time playing with configurations yet and wait further improvments in my ethernet audio system preceding the DAC so that such variations are esaily heard

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I am afraid though this thread will not be very populated yet since I understand Peter has just sold a few untill now... hope this thread will increase number of config testing volunteers😎

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8 minutes ago, Ricardo007 said:

I am afraid though this thread will not be very populated yet since I understand Peter has just sold a few untill now... hope this thread will increase number of config testing volunteers😎

May his tribe increase!


NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10 Version 1903/HDPLEX 200W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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All right. I can't believe what I am hearing ...

 

... That is what I typed at the 2nd day of listebing to the EtherREGEN with the ET^2 cable from its output to Audio playing PC. And did I announce that I was going to be honest ?

 

I never typed more than the italics above, because I was too astound to even know what I should express about this "combo". I intended to blame the combo indeed, because I never tried either on its own (and don't intend to). The only thing I should do, is also add an ET^2 for the input (Music (file) Server to the EtherREGEN).

(building up tension a bit)
5 days or so later ...

 

The sound is so different from what it was, that my brain is actually continuously working on the how-come, instead of listening to the music or value of the SQ now perceived. And mind you please, I regard my system to be of the most "unheard" resolution / resolvement, so I don't even know what others can / will perceive from this, but actually this is too crazy to be true ...

And to add to this: I never even wanted to add an ET^2 to my own system at whatever place in whatever chain, because it wasn't going to make a difference anyway. Or maybe I did not want to know ...

 

Even the most recognizable songs have been transferred to something else. Say that even Riders on The Storm is now of an unknown remix. It has been changed so much and from so many angles, that I don't know how to start interpreting. Actually it is all for the better to infinity, weren't it that ...

 

That it is all too "present". All tries to be on the foreground and in the end this becomes tiring. Especially with Rock or any real wilder type of music, it gets crowded. But in such a strange way ...

Last night I was focusing on where the "crowded" actually springs from, and I "saw" something like too much dynamic range between nothing and sound (and that at the highest resolution). This would resemble the so much more resolution to infinity. E.g. cymbals sound and extend in a completely transformed way, again, I can't even start thinking where this originates. A digital connection ... (which even is galvanically isolated to begin with, because Ethernet).

 

I am not sure yet what the next step should be, but I tend to use a linear power supply for the EtherREGEN as a first next trial, despite the advice against it (by UpTone). This relates to their remark "we could not detect any real change" (with their own LPS-1.2 I presume). Well, I wonder. So Alex @Uptown Audio, I hope this doesn't turn out into xxx orders for LPS-1.2 modules, because I know you won't have time to pack those all, but don't blame me for being the messenger, might it happen. 😑

 

This proposed next step is not even the most logical one because the ET^2 still has its 255 configuration possibilities, or a bit less (half, I'd say) if I leave out the ground connection at at least one side (currently that is disconnected at both sides, because:

A: WYR, B: WYR

(no B at either side)

However, because I comes to me that this high perceived resolution could be faked by high on/of (switching) underlying layers (I seem to hear that), I want to eliminate that first. Or at least I want to know the influence which undoubtedly *is* there (bet ?) but the how of it (what's perceived from it) I like to know. And prior to further cable changes.

 

Besides the idea of the switching, the other idea is that my system is now elsewhere lacking. I just hear too many good things (and not little) to ignore that possibility.

 

So, meanwhile, others have opinions by now ? Or, what would be the most useful - how ET^2 config changes influence the sound in absolute sense ? Please try to avoid the term "harsh", but merely try to relate it to the music content. Or more technically, how frequencies are (where) emphasized. Or how that works out (more/less forward (of what ??)). For me harsh or distortion is not in order at all. But I could use some "rounding". The sound now is more towards the Clairixa (USB cable). So much delineated that it becomes digital again (the opposite of what the Lush^2 brought).

The fact that I also use the Lush^2 and the Blaxius^2 for analog interlink makes it, well, complicated. I like to leave those be (I know, this could be the wrong approach).

 


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

All right. I can't believe what I am hearing ...

 

... That is what I typed at the 2nd day of listebing to the EtherREGEN with the ET^2 cable from its output to Audio playing PC. And did I announce that I was going to be honest ?

 

I never typed more than the italics above, because I was too astound to even know what I should express about this "combo". I intended to blame the combo indeed, because I never tried either on its own (and don't intend to). The only thing I should do, is also add an ET^2 for the input (Music (file) Server to the EtherREGEN).

(building up tension a bit)
5 days or so later ...

 

The sound is so different from what it was, that my brain is actually continuously working on the how-come, instead of listening to the music or value of the SQ now perceived. And mind you please, I regard my system to be of the most "unheard" resolution / resolvement, so I don't even know what others can / will perceive from this, but actually this is too crazy to be true ...

And to add to this: I never even wanted to add an ET^2 to my own system at whatever place in whatever chain, because it wasn't going to make a difference anyway. Or maybe I did not want to know ...

 

Even the most recognizable songs have been transferred to something else. Say that even Riders on The Storm is now of an unknown remix. It has been changed so much and from so many angles, that I don't know how to start interpreting. Actually it is all for the better to infinity, weren't it that ...

 

That it is all too "present". All tries to be on the foreground and in the end this becomes tiring. Especially with Rock or any real wilder type of music, it gets crowded. But in such a strange way ...

Last night I was focusing on where the "crowded" actually springs from, and I "saw" something like too much dynamic range between nothing and sound (and that at the highest resolution). This would resemble the so much more resolution to infinity. E.g. cymbals sound and extend in a completely transformed way, again, I can't even start thinking where this originates. A digital connection ... (which even is galvanically isolated to begin with, because Ethernet).

 

I am not sure yet what the next step should be, but I tend to use a linear power supply for the EtherREGEN as a first next trial, despite the advice against it (by UpTone). This relates to their remark "we could not detect any real change" (with their own LPS-1.2 I presume). Well, I wonder. So Alex @Uptown Audio, I hope this doesn't turn out into xxx orders for LPS-1.2 modules, because I know you won't have time to pack those all, but don't blame me for being the messenger, might it happen. 😑

 

This proposed next step is not even the most logical one because the ET^2 still has its 255 configuration possibilities, or a bit less (half, I'd say) if I leave out the ground connection at at least one side (currently that is disconnected at both sides, because:

A: WYR, B: WYR

(no B at either side)

However, because I comes to me that this high perceived resolution could be faked by high on/of (switching) underlying layers (I seem to hear that), I want to eliminate that first. Or at least I want to know the influence which undoubtedly *is* there (bet ?) but the how of it (what's perceived from it) I like to know. And prior to further cable changes.

 

Besides the idea of the switching, the other idea is that my system is now elsewhere lacking. I just hear too many good things (and not little) to ignore that possibility.

 

So, meanwhile, others have opinions by now ? Or, what would be the most useful - how ET^2 config changes influence the sound in absolute sense ? Please try to avoid the term "harsh", but merely try to relate it to the music content. Or more technically, how frequencies are (where) emphasized. Or how that works out (more/less forward (of what ??)). For me harsh or distortion is not in order at all. But I could use some "rounding". The sound now is more towards the Clairixa (USB cable). So much delineated that it becomes digital again (the opposite of what the Lush^2 brought).

The fact that I also use the Lush^2 and the Blaxius^2 for analog interlink makes it, well, complicated. I like to leave those be (I know, this could be the wrong approach).

 

 

My understanding is that the PSU and the power management is always important, in all audio gear, without exception.

 

I found it illogical, that if we think that the quality of a PSUs and the power management is very important for getting good sound from all other types of audio gear, that it wouldn’t also be true for an audiophile switch.

 

The same logical can be used for digital cables IMO/IME. If the quality of one type of digital cable really matters (USB for example) why not also for all other types of digital cables (LAN, SATA etc)?

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16 hours ago, PeterSt said:

All right. I can't believe what I am hearing ...


... That is what I typed at the 2nd day of listebing to the EtherREGEN with the ET^2 cable from its output to Audio playing PC...

 

Quote

I am not sure yet what the next step should be, but I tend to use a linear power supply for the EtherREGEN as a first next trial, despite the advice against it (by UpTone). This relates to their remark "we could not detect any real change" (with their own LPS-1.2 I presume). Well, I wonder. So Alex @Uptown Audio, I hope this doesn't turn out into xxx orders for LPS-1.2 modules, because I know you won't have time to pack those all, but don't blame me for being the messenger, might it happen.

 

LOL! Glad you are having fun with the EtherREGEN. (And yet there are people who still insist that this is all in our heads.)

As you may have read, EtherREGEN seems to change a lot over first 200 hours (though here is where I do think some is in our heads as our ear/brain gets used to all the new information that comes through).

 

With regards the power supply: We simply took the position that an LPS is not immediately required in order for the EtherREGEN to do its big trick. I feel that telling people they need a fancy linear supply would result in fewer people trying our switch.

I still don’t find an LPS to be a huge difference, but that’s in part because I am more fixated on changes that make me go “wow!”  An UltraCap supply on a micro/ultraRendu or on a NUC is a MUCH bigger “wow” than the same supply on an EtherREGEN.

 

Also, use of any “floating” LPS (our own or many other brands) where the zero-volt/-VE “ground” is not common to AC mains ground then requires consideration about using the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN (this is covered in the User Guide). 

So deepening upon your ‘A’-side attachments you may want to consider that Peter.

 

All the best,

—Alex C.

 

P.S. You tagged—an apparently banned with just two posts—user named Uptown Audio. Don’t know who that was but I know you know that we are UpTone Audio and that my user name everwhere is Superdad. B|

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Added an ET^2 cable into my digital chain this past week. It replaced an AQ Cinnamon from the wall port to the B side of the Etherregen switch. The A side sfp port is connected via optical cab!e to a sonore optical rendu. This is the only connection on the A side. The etherregen  ground screw is connected to the ET^2 ground as well as a ground to the Equi-Tech 1.5RQ.

 

Digital chain is: Sonictransporter I9 >roon> hq player > Ethernet > sonore  optical module > optical > ubiquiti 24 port switch > patch panel > cat5e utp > wall Jack > ET^2 > etherregen  > optical > orendu > su-6 > dsd or whatever. 

 

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10 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

P.S. You tagged—an apparently banned with just two posts—user named Uptown Audio.

 

I was fairly sure it was wrong. But suddenly the real nick wouldn't come to me. I was trying and trying and trying, and fund this one. Still to be sure that it was wrong ...

 

10 hours ago, Superdad said:

Also, use of any “floating” LPS (our own or many other brands) where the zero-volt/-VE “ground” is not common to AC mains ground then requires consideration about using the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN

 

I never thought of that, and when reading the user manual it when in one ear, out the other, because at that stage of reading I planned the switcher just because it's advised. And later I did not think of that.

However ...

 

Yesterday, at connecting the LPS-1.2 I considered it by myself, and still did not do it, because it would be too much of connecting-through ground, while it is the first things I'd avoid for Ethernet. Otoh, I still have one ET^2 only and I'd like to experiment with the side of the ground connection. I mean, the input side would definitely be OK with me, but that is exactly the side where the ET^2 not is, so I can't even connect ground there. And mind you, the ET^2 has been setup so that it doesn't need to be conform the device in question, and you's just find some ground point, like that could be the chassis. But think Ethernet connections with inherent ground in the (metal) plug, and the then available option to try it or leave it out.

Anyway, very very good that you pointed out the floating ground - I just didn't even think of that.

More in a next post.


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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7 hours ago, mark_z said:

The etherregen  ground screw is connected to the ET^2 ground as well as a ground to the Equi-Tech 1.5RQ.

 

Mark, please consider the fact that connecting the shield(s) to ground of devices (that's what you would be doing with the black wire and the extension cable for it) on one end, is a just as legit solution as connecting through to ground on both sides (or the one-other side for that matter). So the logic that the shields must connect from end to end (once connected to one end) does not exist. And thus it is a means to influence SQ with 4 additional options (connect none, A, B, A and B). Sadly it will depend rather completely to the "switch" (hub) device you use (with the EtherREGEN mostly as suggested one for this thread).

 

What's in my mind for devastating vs good options, is the consideration whether the ground as such (think chassis ground for where the ET^2's shields to connect to), is tied to signal ground (the 4 white or color-white-dashed Ethernet wires). And that a random switch would itself tie chassis ground to signal ground, well, is in my mind (and I wouldn't like that - pure from my own theory).


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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Then a for myself important one - in the end important for all of us.

 

I use the EtherREGEN in an I think more special chain: As the connection between Music (file) Server and the Audio PC, with mostly Ethernet only used for RDC (Music Server PC controls the Audio PC). I say "mostly", because no streaming occurs during playback (loading the albums prior to playback, yes). Well ...

 

Now think of the sheer fact that the EtherREGEN is a bottleneck for the speed of loading the albums. Thus, without switch the net bandwidth is larger than with (the EtherREGEN has a bandwidth of 100Mb/s, according to the specs) and with my Music Server PC also having 100Mb (audio PC has 1G), the EtherREGEN still is a bottleneck, already because of latency and the way I (XXHighEnd) load files (this is quite special for its setup, with as main characteristic that communication is about at the packet level and not at the level of the largest possible burst means). This implies relatively huge overhead, and the EtherREGEN (any hub-like device) adds to that again - I'd say with a factor of 2, compared to "no hub"). But now the sheer gag, assumed I am right on my observations in the first place:

 

A FLAC album loads and decodes in about 1 second, over mentioned Ethernet connection;

The same album loads/decodes in 2-3 seconds with the EtherREGEN in between (which I find no problem at all, it's worth it).

This is with ET^2 config A:WYR, B:WYR.

 

Then yesterday at first attempts to tame the maybe too dynamical sound, I did this :

A:WR, B:WYR.

 

... And now the time to load/decode an album has been doubled or so (still worth it) ...

 

Again, if my observations are correct.

 

Don't ask me how many re-transmits Ethernet normally experiences, but please do know that Ethernet is 100% made for it, as collisions normally happen all over the place (say two people sending data at the exact same time), and that Ethernet (Internet too) is one big pile of "error", but no worries, when more error, it only means that more re-transmissions need to happen; only if things really are in error, no re-transmission will help, and a whatever presented error message will be your share.

Unlike Async USB, any error is detected and corrected (re-transmit), BUT this means extra payload to the transceivers involved (our PC's and connected devices, in my case two PC's with now the EtherREGEN in between). But point of case: the audio PC now too has to deal with extra payload; It requires additional processing (possibly at the hardware level only (a controller) but that doesn't mattter. You know, that processing which is supposed to be audible (no discussions about that pooollllease !). And so what we may be dealing with is a configurable error generator, the ET^2. And for background, any normal Ethernet cable will not be different for errors as such - it is only that we don't experience the errors. They can easily be there, but we don't see them; yeah, by means of unexpected slow connections (if interpretable  in the first  place).

 

And so I suddenly think I found a quite explicit means why Ethernet cables can matter for SQ (SATA the same, but not with me because I have no SATA means in the Audio PC).

I suppose that the best sounding connection will be the one with the least errors. Not sure how to see those by simple means. Alex @Superdad (😜), maybe you know what you guys did to check for proper (acceptable) working ? I just lack the experience (and like to put the question to you instead of giving it to Google).

 

Peter

 


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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23 hours ago, Summit said:

If the quality of one type of digital cable really matters (USB for example) why not also for all other types of digital cables (LAN, SATA etc)?

 

The USB as we used it (Async) is not error corrected, and in all cases no errors assumed (which can be observed by means of driver GUI programs), USB should just transmit the data which does not imply additional or changing payload at the transmitter (PC).

Notice that the "no errors assumed" is definitely the situation for 999 out of 1000 people. So forget about changing SQ because of error.

 

With Ethernet/LAN and SATA (in my previous post I hadn't even read yours - about SATA !), this is very different;

Both anticipate error explicitly, and both could even deal with a 50% error rate (of whatever, if it's only not 100%), without you knowing except for slower throughput. One thing: when direct streaming is in order (be it from disk/ssd or be it over the LAN (Ethernet-connected DAC), the errors would need to be solved before the audio samples are clocked out to the amplifier etc. If not, you'd have a glitch or whatever happens, and this latter is not likely at all. All is more than fast enough to a. deal with dozens of errors per second and b. to be in time for that next audio sample to put out. Compare 100Mbit (bandwidth of EtheREGEN) with 44KByte x 2 (stereo) = ~ 880000Kbit = ~ 0,88Mbit (just doing this quickly, so correct me where I'm wrong). But a 100x over-capacity and thus room for 99% error.

 

Because Ethernet (but SATA too) is so much anticipating large levels of error, the errors are allowed to happen just the same. It just is not bad. A manufacturer may use a $1 chip instead of a $10 chip, because the $1 implies an error rate of 5% while the $10 implies error of 0.5%. Depending on the projected environment, both are good enough.

Still both may differ for SQ per the way I reason now. And for Ethernet this is enormously more than USB, which latter should incur for a steady data stream (with only relatively small variation because of packet content and length varying).

 

And so I may also have found the reason why my changed connection makes such a vast difference in the first place. And mind you, this could already be the EtherREGEN which does NOT incur (or incurs for less) errors and re-transmissions, which also thus hammers on the transceiver at the other end of its output. Even its input could be important (but not under control, unless by means of ET^2 cable !) because the re-transmits on (towards) the input side (of the outputting PC in my case) ... because lag on the input means lag on the output and thus peaks at the input of the Audio PC. And (current !) peaks are the devil for audio ...

 

I didn't anticipate this thread to be intriguing. But it could be more than any other. For myself at least.

 


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

The USB as we used it (Async) is not error corrected, and in all cases no errors assumed (which can be observed by means of driver GUI programs), USB should just transmit the data which does not imply additional or changing payload at the transmitter (PC).

Notice that the "no errors assumed" is definitely the situation for 999 out of 1000 people. So forget about changing SQ because of error.

 

With Ethernet/LAN and SATA (in my previous post I hadn't even read yours - about SATA !), this is very different;

Both anticipate error explicitly, and both could even deal with a 50% error rate (of whatever, if it's only not 100%), without you knowing except for slower throughput. One thing: when direct streaming is in order (be it from disk/ssd or be it over the LAN (Ethernet-connected DAC), the errors would need to be solved before the audio samples are clocked out to the amplifier etc. If not, you'd have a glitch or whatever happens, and this latter is not likely at all. All is more than fast enough to a. deal with dozens of errors per second and b. to be in time for that next audio sample to put out. Compare 100Mbit (bandwidth of EtheREGEN) with 44KByte x 2 (stereo) = ~ 880000Kbit = ~ 0,88Mbit (just doing this quickly, so correct me where I'm wrong). But a 100x over-capacity and thus room for 99% error.

 

Because Ethernet (but SATA too) is so much anticipating large levels of error, the errors are allowed to happen just the same. It just is not bad. A manufacturer may use a $1 chip instead of a $10 chip, because the $1 implies an error rate of 5% while the $10 implies error of 0.5%. Depending on the projected environment, both are good enough.

Still both may differ for SQ per the way I reason now. And for Ethernet this is enormously more than USB, which latter should incur for a steady data stream (with only relatively small variation because of packet content and length varying).

 

And so I may also have found the reason why my changed connection makes such a vast difference in the first place. And mind you, this could already be the EtherREGEN which does NOT incur (or incurs for less) errors and re-transmissions, which also thus hammers on the transceiver at the other end of its output. Even its input could be important (but not under control, unless by means of ET^2 cable !) because the re-transmits on (towards) the input side (of the outputting PC in my case) ... because lag on the input means lag on the output and thus peaks at the input of the Audio PC. And (current !) peaks are the devil for audio ...

 

I didn't anticipate this thread to be intriguing. But it could be more than any other. For myself at least.

 

As an aside did you know sata is half duplex just like USB 2.0?

 

Kinda pathetic in this day and age.


nuckleheadaudio.com

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Maybe a small update from my side:

 

Each other day I am again and even more amazed what's dug out of my so very well known albums. If I was allowed to use one word only, I'd say clarity.

As if all is suddenly completely without distortion. I am still thinking of the technical merit in order.

 

Oh, I should add that I am now also using an ET^2 towards the EtherREGEN. This definitely brought another change, seemingly for the better because it lessened the effect of what I described earlier on, hence the extra ET^2 made it all more "normal". The technical aspects of that I again can't see (with the EtherREGEN re-generating the data and all).

 

Let's keep in mind that I am not streaming over Ethernet (I use USB) and that the only thing at play is the connection from the audio playing PC to an other (say for RDC reasons). So the EtherREGEN must have some isolating kind of role which should not even be about the transmission of data (data transmission of functional packets is idle during playback, also for (RDC) screen updates).


Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

Maybe a small update from my side:

 

Each other day I am again and even more amazed what's dug out of my so very well known albums. If I was allowed to use one word only, I'd say clarity.

As if all is suddenly completely without distortion. I am still thinking of the technical merit in order.

 

Oh, I should add that I am now also using an ET^2 towards the EtherREGEN. This definitely brought another change, seemingly for the better because it lessened the effect of what I described earlier on, hence the extra ET^2 made it all more "normal". The technical aspects of that I again can't see (with the EtherREGEN re-generating the data and all).

 

Let's keep in mind that I am not streaming over Ethernet (I use USB) and that the only thing at play is the connection from the audio playing PC to an other (say for RDC reasons). So the EtherREGEN must have some isolating kind of role which should not even be about the transmission of data (data transmission of functional packets is idle during playback, also for (RDC) screen updates).

What does RDC mean?


nuckleheadaudio.com

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