CPU Load and Sound Quality

[The Computer Audiophile]

I think those who deem themselves as "pro-science" need to remember that AS isn't the front line in the war on science. 

[sandyk]

58 minutes ago, marce said:

if the reality of the physical universe

 Your personal reality is obviously VERY different to a huge number of other members of this forum who post in the Music Server area of the forum.

[Ralf11]

14 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Your personal reality is obviously VERY different to a huge number of other members of this forum who post in the Music Server area of the forum.

 

He isn't posting about his personal reality.  See, now that's the difference between science and nostrums.

 

But anyway, Rave ON!

[mansr]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Which known laws of physics are violated and how? 

• The gravitational force
• The electromagnetic force
• The strong nuclear force
• The weak nuclear force

[Racerxnet]

57 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Your personal reality is obviously VERY different to a huge number of other members of this forum who post in the Music Server area of the forum.

 

You guys should gather in a neutral place with a unknown system, set up by a competent person, and haul several home built or purpose built computers over for a blind test. It would be interesting to just plug and play and listen for differences. No peeking allowed. Same cables, bit perfect, same software, same re-sampling if desired. 

 

MAK 

[fas42]

What a lot of people are doing is confusing QA with science ... if an implementation isn't good enough, or not enough care is taken in making sure that all the parts fit together properly, then the end result will crash and burn. This is something that NASA got a red face over - a mission to Mars self destructed because two engineering groups didn't make sure they were talking in the same measurement units - you know, simple stuff ... 😉.

[sandyk]

32 minutes ago, Racerxnet said:

 

You guys should gather in a neutral place with a unknown system, set up by a competent person, and haul several home built or purpose built computers over for a blind test. It would be interesting to just plug and play and listen for differences. No peeking allowed. 

 

MAK 

 An unknown system is of no use in an exercise like this .It needs to be of the highest possible quality in all the various components used, including where possible, measurements that show that the various components such as the DAC , amplification chain, and speakers should be as close to transparent as possible, as well as judged by actual listening that they are.

 Add to that other variables such as the format of the Audio files, and how they are exported by the various PC/Servers

 e.g. Ethernet, USB, Coax SPDIF etc

 It would be a nightmare to do proper comparisons of each system

[fas42]

Getting an audio rig in the sweet zone can be compared to getting a particular F1 team to be regular winners ... all the cars, from all the teams, have 'unbelievable' spec's compared to any normal vehicle - but one team always get their drivers on the podium; while another has its engines constantly blowing up, or "the wheels fall off", one way or the other - what's the "magic ingredient" that separates these two scenarios ... ? 🙂

[Racerxnet]

34 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 An unknown system is of no use in an exercise like this .It needs to be of the highest possible quality in all the various components used, including where possible, measurements that show that the various components such as the DAC , amplification chain, and speakers should be as close to transparent as possible, as well as judged by actual listening that they are.

 Add to that other variables such as the format of the Audio files, and how they are exported by the various PC/Servers

 e.g. Ethernet, USB, Coax SPDIF etc

 It would be a nightmare to do proper comparisons of each system

 

 

Not going to buy it today. A half way decent set-up should be enough to discern any glaring or subtle differences from the computer itself. Someone suggested that they can hear differences in cable swaps, and should be able to do the same with changing computers as the output source. Just swap out the PC itself. Many are stand alone such as mine. Same rules would apply as above. That would be a good start.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

38 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Getting an audio rig in the sweet zone can be compared to getting a particular F1 team to be regular winners ... all the cars, from all the teams, have 'unbelievable' spec's compared to any normal vehicle - but one team always get their drivers on the podium; while another has its engines constantly blowing up, or "the wheels fall off", one way or the other - what's the "magic ingredient" that separates these two scenarios ... ? 🙂

 

Frank, you are not going to be on the F-1 podium with a laptop. 

 

MAK

[rando]

46 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Getting an audio rig in the sweet zone can be compared to getting a particular F1 team to be regular winners ... all the cars, from all the teams, have 'unbelievable' spec's compared to any normal vehicle - but one team always get their drivers on the podium; while another has its engines constantly blowing up, or "the wheels fall off", one way or the other - what's the "magic ingredient" that separates these two scenarios ... ? 🙂

 

If you prove a reliable fixer we'll set up concessions (gambling) and CC can wash it for us.  Conditioning to expect no evidence of fixing impairs ability of further steps to be taken.  

[kumakuma]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 Your personal reality is obviously VERY different to a huge number of other members of this forum who post in the Music Server area of the forum.

 

Are you saying we should accept all the findings that are reported in that thread, even the ones that contradict each other?

 

If not, what criteria should we use?

[fas42]

49 minutes ago, Racerxnet said:

 

Frank, you are not going to be on the F-1 podium with a laptop. 

 

MAK

 

Everything has its own level - I once fooled around with slot cars - remember those? 😉 There would always be one or two people who had cars which put on a good show, in that world ... fiddling with a laptop is just like doing the little things that got your tiny wheeled 'toy' to do better than the next one ...

[fas42]

50 minutes ago, rando said:

 

If you prove a reliable fixer we'll set up concessions (gambling) and CC can wash it for us.  Conditioning to expect no evidence of fixing impairs ability of further steps to be taken.  

 

Doesn't compute ... sorry ... 🤨

[sandyk]

30 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Are you saying we should accept all the findings that are reported in that thread, even the ones that contradict each other?

 

If not, what criteria should we use?

 Definitely NOT.

 However, where  quite a few members are reporting the same things INDEPENDENTLY, then they should be worthy of further investigation by qualified members with access to suitable test equipment, but not just spouting what they were taught many years earlier, or have read in a textbook.

[John Dyson]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

 Definitely NOT.

 However, where  quite a few members are reporting the same things INDEPENDENTLY, then they should be worthy of further investigation by qualified members with access to suitable test equipment, but not just spouting what they were taught many years earlier, or have read in a textbook.

Sometimes, on the face of it, anecdotal claims can, from a technical standpoint, appear to be nonsensical.  It requires engineers and like people with open minds *and the ability to think* to be able to accept that there might be *something* uncontrolled going on.

 

I guarantee you -- sometimes beliefs based upon anecdotal evidence are mistaken, sometimes they end up being true.  Instead of discounting a claim that initially appears to be absurd -- it would be a good thing to assume that the claim has some truth, and then try to figure out what is going on.

 

I keep thinking about TIM as such an example.  Hows about the reception that I got all over the place about DolbyA leaking?   I was a crazy person, right?   But -- what really surprises me -- why didn't someone else notice the problem during the 30+yrs that the problem has existed?   The fact that TIM existed for as long as it did, or that DolbyA leaks have distorted most of our digital pop recordings since CDs came out, I JUST DON"T UNDERSTAND HOW THE PROBLEMS PERSISTED!!?!?!?

 

We should try to have 'open minds' without being foolish.  It is easy to be misled, and I do believe that one reason why people resist new or implausible ideas is that there IS a lot of snake oil and incompetence out there.   I don't know the answer to the problem -- but someone who WANTS to understand the problem or just tries to prove it a little bit is the winner in life -- not the nay sayer.  Well, sometimes being a nay-sayer is the 'safe' position to take...

 

Alex, I do accept that sometimes people dismiss concepts that end up being true, but also sometimes people misunderstand what is being claimed.  Communications is a real b*tch.

 

John

 

[kumakuma]

20 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Definitely NOT.

 However, where  quite a few members are reporting the same things INDEPENDENTLY, then they should be worthy of further investigation by qualified members with access to suitable test equipment, but not just spouting what they were taught many years earlier, or have read in a textbook.

 

I doubt that even that wouldn't change anyone's mind.

 

For example, you've been presented with overwhelming evidence why some of your claims are impossible but yet your mind hasn't changed one whit.

 

In fact, you've said time and time again that you will reject any evidence that disapproves your claims. 

[sandyk]

30 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

For example, you've been presented with overwhelming evidence why some of your claims are impossible but yet your mind hasn't changed one whit.

 

That is your own biased opinion.

 Youi keep ignoring the results of correctly performed DBTs, and even the reports of one of this generations most famous Recording and Mastering Engineers, as well as the reports of  >several dozen members.

 

 It's a complete waste of my time further discussing ANYTHING with you, and I will not be doing so, as many members would already be aware, if I said something was Black, you would insist that it was White.

 You are UNABLE to disprove  my claims because I am also100% able to demonstrate them directly.

 This is just one example  from  acg with a couple of my video comparisons :

acg  (Anthony is from Queensland, and was using a 4K monitor with the videos side by side)
Replied: Tuesday at 02:35 PM

Wow Alex.  I looked at the first two links...big quality difference in the video.
How are they different?  Or, what did you change when recording them? 

A

[fas42]

35 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

...  The fact that TIM existed for as long as it did, or that DolbyA leaks have distorted most of our digital pop recordings since CDs came out,

 

John

 

 

This is where I have a big problem with what John says ... he claims that we are suffering from "distortion", because of Dolby A - I certainly know what unpleasant digital anomalies sound like, which why I work to rid them from a system. And I certainly how spectacular pop recordings sound when you give them a pristine playback setup to work through ... to keep bandying the word distortion around, when the main offender is the rig that's reproducing them, is quite an insult to all the people who have spent significant chunks of their careers creating the versions for release.

[Ralf11]

14 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 It's a complete waste of my time further discussing ANYTHING with you, and I will not be doing so

 

 

Thanks!

[kumakuma]

15 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

That is your own biased opinion.

 Youi keep ignoring the results of correctly performed DBTs, and even the reports of one of this generations most famous Recording and Mastering Engineers, as well as the reports of  >several dozen members.

 

 It's a complete waste of my time further discussing anything with you, and I will not be doing so, as many members would already be aware, if I said something was Black, you would insist that it was White.

 You are UNABLE to disprove  my claims because I am also100% able to demonstrate them directly.

 This is just one example  from  acg with a couple of my video comparisons :

acg  (Anthony is from Queensland, and was using a 4K monitor with the videos side by side)
Replied: Tuesday at 02:35 PM

Wow Alex.  I looked at the first two links...big quality difference in the video.
How are they different?  Or, what did you change when recording them? 

A

 

I'm sorry but there is no indication that any of the "tests" performed on your files were "correctly performed" double-blind tests. For example, the tests that Barry performed were not double blind. In fact they weren't even single blind.

 

There are also numerous other issues with your test methodology that you refuse to address.

[kumakuma]

9 minutes ago, fas42 said:

to keep bandying the word distortion around, when the main offender is the rig that's reproducing them, is quite an insult to all the people who have spent significant chunks of their careers creating the versions for release.

 

Isn't your constant harping about how bad audio equipment sounds out-of-the-box equally insulting to the people who have spent their careers designing and manufacturing them?

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

Thanks!

 

That reply was directed at Kumakuma , NOT you . At least you post something worthwhile occasionally.

[John Dyson]

14 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

This is where I have a big problem with what John says ... he claims that we are suffering from "distortion", because of Dolby A - I certainly know what unpleasant digital anomalies sound like, which why I work to rid them from a system. And I certainly how spectacular pop recordings sound when you give them a pristine playback setup to work through ... to keep bandying the word distortion around, when the main offender is the rig that's reproducing them, is quite an insult to all the people who have spent significant chunks of their careers creating the versions for release.

DolbyA is a compression system unintended to reach the consumer.  IT DOES DISTORT, and the distortion should be undone before presenting to the consumer.   If you like distortion free bass, for example -- then DolbyA encoded material wont do it for you.  It should be decoded for proper bass.

 

The best approach is to start with wide dynamic range, and then for the local system to modify the recording for compatability.  A small system or automobile would benefit from compression...  A good system does NOT benefit from compression except maybe low level play.

 

John

 

[fas42]

33 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Isn't your constant harping about how bad audio equipment sounds out-of-the-box equally insulting to the people who have spent their careers designing and manufacturing them?

 

People have to work under the constraints of what the market wants, and expects - the lack of attention to detail is an industry wide behaviour; the designers just produce what the manufacturer wants - just read what John Curl says at times about the difficulties of producing a design that is acceptable to the manufacturer; that he's personally happy with. There was an article by an Australian designer, who did an amplifier that stood out like a jewel amongst all the expensive gear I listened to decades ago; he worked as amplifier designer for the Mark Levinson company in the 80's, and gave up in disgust because they just weren't interested in advancing the true performance of their products ... sometimes, The System just too monolithic, 🙂.

 

Boutique companies who give a damn are then condemned because they price their wares at commensurate levels ... but they still only have so much control over how their product is finally used - so may still sound far less than their optimum - I have always said that the core of products is good, but the detailing is where it falls down. The very best gear, carefully assembled, shows what's possible - but the trickledown is far, far too slow.