Popular Post rando Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 58 minutes ago, PeterSt said: You keep thinking this is an Audiophile forum. Wait a gosh durned second. This ain't no audiophile forum you say. Well just what in Sam Hill is it then, a noisy latrine with sponsor messages surrounding every hole large enough to fall in? Seriously Peter, could you explain what you mean by this. 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: The last thing they want is people telling them they are wrong, foolish, or crazy. While this sounds logical it’s far from the truth. This is a hobby that brings them enjoyment. I'm just a paraphrasing all over the place lately. Teresa and sandyk 2 Link to comment
STC Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, mansr said: Four days and six pages later, why are you still here? Proving irrespective of the CPU load, load of BS will continue forever? Ralf11 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, sandyk said: # 320 I guess randomly dropping my name into a post on a completely unrelated subject is one way to respond... sandyk and Ralf11 1 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, STC said: Proving irrespective of the CPU load, load of BS will continue forever? As the OP , all you have to do is request that your deliberately provocative thread is closed. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
STC Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 Just now, sandyk said: As the OP , all you have to do is request that your deliberately provocative thread is closed. Why? For stating the obvious? Ralf11 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 Perhaps he is addicted to this particular thread and wants to go cold turkey STC and Teresa 2 Link to comment
sandyk Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, STC said: Why? For stating the obvious? NO, for starting a thread where you are not interested in hearing opinions/reports other than those that suit your own personal P.O.V. marce 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, sandyk said: NO, for starting a thread where you are not interested in hearing opinions/reports other than those that suit your own personal P.O.V. maybe he just doesn't want a bunch of dissonant noise in his thread Link to comment
STC Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 Just now, Ralf11 said: Perhaps he is addicted to this particular thread and wants to go cold turkey More like denial to the unpropitious results of the finding. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
STC Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, sandyk said: NO, for starting a thread where you are not interested in hearing opinions/reports other than those that suit your own personal P.O.V. And who is here interested to hear my finding. I am not expressing unfounded opinion. I am giving you evidence which your are bit interested because you got more pressing things to do beside posting your disagreement. I am not sure which would have taken more time. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, sandyk said: NO, for starting a thread where you are not interested in hearing opinions/reports other than those that suit your own personal P.O.V. Threads on this site come in all colors and styles. There are even a few here that you haven't disrupted yet with your ill-tempered posts... mansr and marce 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
mansr Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Just now, kumakuma said: Threads on this site come in all colors and varieties. There are even a few here that you haven't disrupted yet with your ill-tempered posts... There are only so many hours in a day. kumakuma 1 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Don't curse - leave that to Mr. Rage Link to comment
sandyk Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: Don't curse - leave that to Mr. Rage Or perhaps leave that to Mr. Lack of Integrity ? https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/49659-step-by-step-surgery/page/9/?tab=comments#comment-1008381 #212 #213 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 I haven't seen anyone curse here besides you. Try to control yourself. sandyk and Ralf11 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 hours ago, fas42 said: The trouble is that people who care enough to participate in an audio forum, are often those who are disturbed by others not confirming their world view on "how to go about it" ... 😉. Almost all areas of life are this way, not just audiophile forums. 5 hours ago, Ralf11 said: "how someone strives for what they believe is better sound. I don’t believe anyone else should care either. " - That is not the issue - the point is that people are making posts that mislead other consumers. For the record, I have never said that measurements were the final arbiter and it is not clear to me that there is set of measurements sufficient to show one high quality electronic item sounds better than another. For speakers, or for crummy vs. top-notch, yes. This consumer protection / saving people from themselves is very misguided. It just doesn’t work and causes more problems than it solves. It’s also presumptuous that those reading want to be saved and that the comments can save them. Live and let live. Nobody is claiming HiFi gear will cause autism. 5 hours ago, mansr said: I don't understand Alex either. Me neither. I feel like Alex is the equivalent of Hydrogen Audio, but for subjectivists. Perhaps Uranium Audio is taken :~) AudioDoctor and Teresa 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 Someone’s fucking CPU is over heating and needs to shut down for a while. 4est, Ralf11 and The Computer Audiophile 1 2 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post Richard Dale Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Ralf11 said: I haven't seen anyone curse here besides you. Try to control yourself. It is possible to be just as rude as someone who swears by using extreme language such as “sub-scientific audiophool gibberish sites” about what others might might consider to be mainstream HiFi forums or online HiFi Magazines. 4est, Blackmorec, Ralf11 and 3 others 5 1 System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs Link to comment
Popular Post Blackmorec Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 Without escalating anything i would like to dedicate a few lines to talk about science and audiophiles. I have been directly involved with science and scientists my entire working life and studied science prior to that. I am also a dyed in the wool audiophile with a deep passion for music and over 45 years experience in chasing the dream of owning a hi-fi system that provides convincingly realistic music quality without any artefacts to contradict the illusion of listening to real musicians playing real instruments. As i have improved my systems over the years i have learned a lot about what it takes in terms of careful set-up of room, power, vibration control and more recently networks and EMI to achieve the results I’m after. I have one really simple criteria for judging sound quality.....its either more convincing and fun to listen to or less. I’m not a physicist or an electrical engineer, so I’m really not concerned with measurements as they mean very little to me. I’m interested solely in the level of enjoyment my hi-fi system delivers. As my system has gradually improved I’ve noticed that it has become increasingly sensitive to changes, some of which i find difficult to explain. Take running-in as an example. These days, whenever i place anything new in the signal path it usually goes through a period of sounding worse before it sounds better. Many audiophiles have noticed the same phenomenon. I can’t explain scientifically why it happens, and many people who claim to be scientists or engineers deny that the phenomenon exists and claim that it has to do with psychological effects. As a scientist i try to look at things logically. If indeed the phenomenon is psychological then it should happen with any change i make to the system that requires me to adapt to the system’s new sound. So is that the case? No, far from it. For anything that doesn’t involve the signal, the change is immediate and stable. For used gear that’s new to my system but not new to carrying a signal, the change is similarly immediate. Then there’s the direction of the change. Everything new that i install sounds initially worse then better. If its my hearing acclimatising, then its always acclimatising to worse sound. That means that every upgrade I’ve ever made sounds worse than the existing system! So how come my system gets consistently better over time? So logically acclimatisation actually makes no sense. Which brings me back to this thread. Having experienced run-in or burn-in to signal carrying devices many tens of times with no exception, the fact that every upgrade sounds worse before its better, and the fact that older and non-signal carrying pieces don't exhibit the same change leads me to the logical conclusion that burn-in exists as a phenomenon that science doesn’t fully understand. In addition, probably hundreds of thousands of other audiophiles have experienced the same phenomenon. So, when i report on Forums the sound I experienced with a new component i usually mention how the sound changed and how long it took to stabilize and ultimately sound good. And i can guarantee that not only will those findings be questioned, but there will be attempts to humiliate, belittle and question the integrity of the reporter. The only way to defend one’s observations involves entering an argument with these self appointed experts quickly turns acrimonious when their arguments are shown to be baseless. I have absolutely no problem with people disagreeing with my opinions, what i do object to are the scathing remarks and ridicule levelled at people with whom these experts disagree. Audio is the only area where we actually listen to electricity, and compare it to a standard of live music, so we should be prepared for anomalies in our understanding. If every time audiophiles report those anomalies they are subject to a barrage of abuse, its no wonder that the forum is reduced to childish arguing. The problem is quite clearly one of intolerance to anything that steps remotely outside of certain well established parameters that points to something we may not fully understand but quite frankly if we are so constrained in our reporting, whats the point of a Forum? esldude, mansr, sandyk and 3 others 2 1 3 Link to comment
STC Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 Quote This was handed to John Atkinson of Stereophile Magazine at a NYC AES Convention in 1995..... .....Don Keele (AES Preprint 2420 A/B) measured a 20 dB shift in differential interaural intensity at several frequencies due to a delay in one channel of only 53 usec which is equivalent to having a speaker or a listener’s head off symmetry a mere seven tenths of an inch. As we have discussed before in (this series of posts also) many technical papers, if you also consider pinna effects, movements or delays of even a few microseconds or tenths of inches are significant in sensing horizontal position. Even if one ignores comb filter effects and false pinna directional cues, the stereo loudspeaker crosstalk, as pointed out by Alan Dower Blumlein in the original binaural patent, limits the stage width and makes the center phantom image fuzzy. All these factors make high quality stereo systems exquisitely sensitive to any small tweaks that differentially or in some cases absolutely modify the spurious peaks and nulls generated by the traditional stereo triangle. Making comparisons of amplifiers, loudspeakers, cables, CD players, and phono cartridges, based on their imaging characteristics such as definition, stage width, air, depth etc., are not very productive undertakings. In the presence of stereo crosstalk and the pinna/head related response errors, the already largely imperfect stage image is very susceptible to small changes in head position, differential delay in electronic components, loudspeaker position, speaker angle, room reflections, room asymmetry.... Listeners will always find it difficult to decide whether any change in such a system is for better or worse, since, even after such a change, the image is still imperfect but in a different way. ...Again, evaluating equipment based on apparent stage width, image palpability depth, spatial realism, etc. is not technically supportable if interaural level, delay, and pinna pattern distortions are present. A reviewer may be able to achieve a reasonable sound stage image by tweaking amplifier, cable, speaker crossover setting, speaker position, room response, etc. but another listener with different shaped pinnae and different head size will have a different interaural function and pinna filter pattern, and thus will not sense the same sound image or frequency response. Finally, this same system, if set up at a different location with different speaker spacing/angle to the listener and perhaps a one inch path length difference to one ear, is likely to project an image quite different from the one generated in the original setup. Reviewing stereo equipment the usual magazine way is like measuring color film reproduction performance using only black and white images and test methods. - Ralph Glasgal ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
Popular Post marce Posted November 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: If it was really about consumer fraud, why aren’t people going after those selling the fraudulent products? This has zero to do with fraud. It’s all about saving people from themselves, being right, proving someone wrong etc... No its about truth. sandyk, STC, daverich4 and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment
fas42 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Blackmorec said: As my system has gradually improved I’ve noticed that it has become increasingly sensitive to changes, some of which i find difficult to explain. Take running-in as an example. These days, whenever i place anything new in the signal path it usually goes through a period of sounding worse before it sounds better. Many audiophiles have noticed the same phenomenon. I can’t explain scientifically why it happens, and many people who claim to be scientists or engineers deny that the phenomenon exists and claim that it has to do with psychological effects. As a scientist i try to look at things logically. If indeed the phenomenon is psychological then it should happen with any change i make to the system that requires me to adapt to the system’s new sound. So is that the case? No, far from it. For anything that doesn’t involve the signal, the change is immediate and stable. For used gear that’s new to my system but not new to carrying a signal, the change is similarly immediate. Then there’s the direction of the change. Everything new that i install sounds initially worse then better. If its my hearing acclimatising, then its always acclimatising to worse sound. That means that every upgrade I’ve ever made sounds worse than the existing system! So how come my system gets consistently better over time? So logically acclimatisation actually makes no sense. Yes to increasingly sensitive to changes ... but I don't have the running-in syndrome - my very strong suspicion is that you're dealing with static behaviours to at least some degree ... I tend to automatically take those sort of things into account, plus I rarely use something "brand new". There are a whole variety of parasitic behaviours, related to materials used, and construction, which one way or another generate electrical noise - juuuust enough to cause audible variations for those sensitive to such things. These all have to be got under control if one wants stable SQ - to me, any rig is always a work in progress, because there are so many aspects that can be impactful. Are the factors all logical? Yep ... the bastard is human hearing, which can be sensitised to some quality in what it hears, so easily - but there is a point which I call competent playback, which does enough to keep me happy - one can do better, but how much agony do you want to go through ... ? 😛 Link to comment
Blackmorec Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, marce said: No its about truth. If it was about truth, then we’d be open- minded and committed to seeking it. Instead we try to force-fit illogical theories in order to avoid admitting there are still some things we don’t completely understand. Teresa, esldude and marce 1 2 Link to comment
Popular Post STC Posted November 30, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Blackmorec said: If it was about truth, then we’d be open- minded and committed to seeking it. Instead we try to force-fit illogical theories in order to avoid admitting there are still some things we don’t completely understand. Audio production and reproduction is well understood. What clearly not understood is the process of hearing the reproduction which involves psychoacoustics and that is not understood or refuse to understand because it would make us foolish looking back years of chasing the wrong things to get perfection. It is a religion for audiophiles. esldude and marce 2 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
Blackmorec Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, fas42 said: Yes to increasingly sensitive to changes ... but I don't have the running-in syndrome - my very strong suspicion is that you're dealing with static behaviours to at least some degree ... I tend to automatically take those sort of things into account, plus I rarely use something "brand new". There are a whole variety of parasitic behaviours, related to materials used, and construction, which one way or another generate electrical noise - juuuust enough to cause audible variations for those sensitive to such things. These all have to be got under control if one wants stable SQ - to me, any rig is always a work in progress, because there are so many aspects that can be impactful. Are the factors all logical? Yep ... the bastard is human hearing, which can be sensitised to some quality in what it hears, so easily - but there is a point which I call competent playback, which does enough to keep me happy - one can do better, but how much agony do you want to go through ... ? 😛 What I hear are new signal carrying components changing over time until they reach stability. Avoiding these changes is easy 1. Play the new unit for several days without listening. They are then stable from the very first listen, so that rules out hearing adaptation as a reason for the changes. 2. Install well-used components. Their sound is also immediately stable, again indicating that hearing is not involved. If what you are saying is that some people’s hearing is sensitive to the changes that occur, then I would agree. However I don’t believe the variable is their hearing per-se, rather its their system’s ability to reveal the changes that varies between different people. When I started on this audio road, there was no such thing as specialised, just-for-audio cables or furniture. Speakers were wired up with lamp flex, the audio version being marked for phase and TTs and amps were placed on whatever convenient furniture was at hand. Sound quality was good and there was no such thing as burn-in. But as we discovered more about how to make our systems better.....new configurations, new components, new materials, improved configurations, improved digital resolution, less noise, better vibration control, better mains etc the improved sound quality brought with it a new phenomenon....burn-in. But as is obvious from the above, burn in is only an issue with sufficiently evolved systems, that have the ability to react to and reveal small changes. marce and Teresa 1 1 Link to comment
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