Ralf11 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Blackmorec said: Quite honestly, that is the biggest load of misinformed BS I’ve ever listened to. If you think that video has any merit then its absolutely no wonder we disagree. The only conclusion I reach from this is that if you don’t want to be able to hear the difference between MP3 and uncompressed WAV files, make sure you listen to it on a mid-fi system with plenty of noise. On my system, I can play 320kbps MP3 files and they sound really good. Orchestral instruments have accurate tone, the instruments are placed correctly in space, it has pace, rhythm and timing aplenty, and the music communicates really well. I can actually listen to and enjoy 128kbps files which I do on a very regular basis. For a reason. I listen to maybe half an hour to an hour of Radio Swiss Classic.....they play absolutely wonderful music with only music and orchestra introductions. It sounds gorgeous and the performances vary between exceptional and virtuoso. Then I switch to remotely or locally streamed 16/44.1kHz wav files. Holee Molee. The experience is quite shocking. Suddenly there is a room full of 3 dimensional music with incredible power, drive and focus. Instruments sound like they are real, there’s huge amounts of information about the musicians and the instruments they are playing, the room disappears and is replaced by the recorded acoustic, which may be a large concert hall or a completely artificially created studio masterpiece. The soundstage has unbelievable depth, extending from adjacent of my listening chair to somewhere far off in the distance, depending of course on what’s on the recording. So while 320kbps MP3 sound absolutely fine, they have nowhere near the performance of the WAV files. Not even close. You know the difference between watching something on regular 32” SDTV vs a 65” 4K OLED UHDTV? Well the difference between 128kbps MP3 and 16/44.1 WAV is greater....more dramatic. With 320kbps you are listening to some music in your room. With 16/44.1 WAV you are now at the venue with the musicians and the venue acoustics as plain as day. You don’t need to concentrate....the music is mesmerising; pulling you into its completely enveloping atmosphere and not letting go for a second. Frankly, if you can’t hear a very clear difference between 320kbps MP3 and 16/44.1WAV then its absolutely no wonder you can’t detect the difference between cables and such and completely explains why I hear things you can’t. Describe your system - Sandy demands this BTW. daverich4 1 Link to comment
kumakuma Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Ralf11 said: Describe your system - Sandy demands this BTW. I thought we had post pictures of the PCBs inside our equipment to make him happy less angry. Ralf11 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted November 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Blackmorec said: Regarding hearsay. I’ve heard these changes so for me its not hearsay. You say you hear it. We hear you say it. That makes it hearsay. Teresa, marce and daverich4 3 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 readsay - you read that he typed it and he's correct that for him it's not hearsay (just confirmation bias) sandyk 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Blackmorec Posted November 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2019 57 minutes ago, mansr said: You say you hear it. We hear you say it. That makes it hearsay. Hearsay is repeating what someone else says. What I’m giving you is a first hand report, illustrating what happens when one takes as much care as possible with setting up and removing noise from a quality hi-fi system. Why you find that so threatening I’ve no idea. No strike that. I believe I do know why. sandyk and Teresa 2 Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Blackmorec said: Actually break in is a pain in the ass, because it really does generate doubt in a new purchase. But there’s a very simple way to avoid it. Simply install the new component and leave it playing music for a few days without listening. When you come back the transition is complete and you hear the new component’s final sound. So no ears adjusting, just the sound before and after. No, not ears. Your post-purchase-paranoia subsides after a few days but you keep insisting it's the new component breaking in. Admit it to yourself, you'll be a much happier person! (this one is a freebee also, I'm just too nice!) sandyk 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, Blackmorec said: Hearsay is repeating what someone else says. What I’m giving you is a first hand report, illustrating what happens when one takes as much care as possible with setting up and removing noise from a quality hi-fi system. Why you find that so threatening I’ve no idea. No strike that. I believe I do know why. Describe your system. Otherwise you are "giving us" nothing. Start with the speakers Link to comment
Popular Post Blackmorec Posted November 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2019 23 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: No, not ears. Your post-purchase-paranoia subsides after a few days but you keep insisting it's the new component breaking in. Admit it to yourself, you'll be a much happier person! (this one is a freebee also, I'm just too nice!) You know what would be useful.....for an engineer to actually sit down with a few components and figure out what break-in actually is. For example why do large Mundorf capacitors take so long to reach stability? Do we actually know the answer to that? Teresa and sandyk 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post pkane2001 Posted November 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Blackmorec said: You know what would be useful.....for an engineer to actually sit down with a few components and figure out what break-in actually is. For example why do large Mundorf capacitors take so long to reach stability? Do we actually know the answer to that? Why would you think that hasn't been done? Electronic components don't take days and weeks to break in. Cables don't take days and weeks to break in. Even vacuum tubes don't. Certain circuits have to reach a stable temperature for operating in the optimal zone. This can take from microseconds to maybe an hour for a large amplifier with heavy heatsinks. Still not a break-in, just a warm-up period. If there is an audio design that really takes days to get to optimal operating conditions, you can be sure that is a broken design. John Dyson, Blackmorec, Teresa and 1 other 2 2 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Popular Post sandyk Posted November 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2019 24 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: Why would you think that hasn't been done? Electronic components don't take days and weeks to break in. Cables don't take days and weeks to break in. Even vacuum tubes don't. Certain circuits have to reach a stable temperature for operating in the optimal zone. This can take from microseconds to maybe an hour for a large amplifier with heavy heatsinks. Still not a break-in, just a warm-up period. If there is an audio design that really takes days to get to optimal operating conditions, you can be sure that is a broken design. https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/612/?tab=comments#comment-1006704 #15284 #15285 marce and mansr 2 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
STC Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 5 hours ago, marce said: So now I have to learn to listen to music.... only if you are a audiophile with expensive system. marce 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
STC Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 hour ago, pkane2001 said: Electronic components don't take days and weeks to break in. Cables don't take days and weeks to break in. Even vacuum tubes don't. Maybe they meant break down. 😂 pkane2001 1 ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
fas42 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 11 hours ago, STC said: Maybe I feel the same. I always thought I could distinguish them. Unfortunately, I don’t get a chance to prove. I have always welcomed anyone to bring their equipment and test them but after the initial euphoria no one is willing to do. Some years ago I did a serious exercise, trying to see whether MP3 encoding could fool one - using LAME, I played with the settings every which way, trying to squeeze the last ounce of accuracy out of the encoding - this was listened to on the Sharp boombox, with the speakers I currently use with the NAD electronics, and using the centre box of electronics of the purchased trio, 🙂. Couldn't get there ... there were always obvious differences, and each different set of encoding settings created a new version to the ear ... quite listenable to, no major flaws - but never subjectively the same ... Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 your perception changes over time as you listen to a system - this is well-known, and accounts for quite a bit of the so-called "burn-in" effect cables, of course, do not burn in Link to comment
John Dyson Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 13 hours ago, STC said: Maybe I feel the same. I always thought I could distinguish them. Unfortunately, I don’t get a chance to prove. I have always welcomed anyone to bring their equipment and test them but after the initial euphoria no one is willing to do. Only one brave very senior distributor ever dared to do the serious challenge. The bet was if he could distinguish his equipment, I would buy them on the spot. I asked for 20 trials. Equipment was his player, his own CD and his speakers. Against Theta Digital and Marantz SACD player . After trial number 12 he stopped because he was suffering from terrible headache. He got 3 out of 12 correct Sadly since then no one wanted to come for blind tests.😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 I can detect mp3 and opus (and tell the difference) only on very carefully selected material that needs very good time resolution to accurately reproduce. As far as I can tell the biggest mp3 & opus impact against the audio is time resolution of short events. The material that I could reliably detect the problem came from a buggy version of the DolbyA decoder. On normal material, I don't think that I can normally reliably detect 320k mp3 vs full res flac. I cannot make the claim that FOR ME there is an audible difference between properly encoded 48k 320k mp3 vs. 48k 24bit flac. John STC 1 Link to comment
esldude Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 12 hours ago, Blackmorec said: I’m far too polite to say 🤐 But what I would say, is that in my case, almost every time I install a new component it usually sounds considerably worse and i spend the next 24 to 240 hours in a state of post-purchase-paranoia, hoping I haven’t screwed up. And then your mind fixes it for after an appropriate amount of satisfying concern. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
STC Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, John Dyson said: I can detect mp3 and opus (and tell the difference) only on very carefully selected material that needs very good time resolution to accurately reproduce. As far as I can tell the biggest mp3 & opus impact against the audio is time resolution of short events. The material that I could reliably detect the problem came from a buggy version of the DolbyA decoder. On normal material, I don't think that I can normally reliably detect 320k mp3 vs full res flac. I cannot make the claim that FOR ME there is an audible difference between properly encoded 48k 320k mp3 vs. 48k 24bit flac. John I have to admit that I have never given any serious DBT of different formats lately since I got better thing to do. As my children and friends often bring their own recordings to listen, my system now do have a few 128, 256 AAC and 320 version. But I think I could tell the difference when a file is not WAV. I am not sure if it’s because of its resolution of because of the tens of channels bring up samples to 24/96 for my process attribute the the difference. Next year project maybe since I have reached the end with what I am currently doing. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
STC Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 4 hours ago, fas42 said: Some years ago I did a serious exercise, trying to see whether MP3 encoding could fool one - using LAME, I played with the settings every which way, trying to squeeze the last ounce of accuracy out of the encoding - this was listened to on the Sharp boombox, with the speakers I currently use with the NAD electronics, and using the centre box of electronics of the purchased trio, 🙂. Couldn't get there ... there were always obvious differences, and each different set of encoding settings created a new version to the ear ... quite listenable to, no major flaws - but never subjectively the same ... Do you have the Sharp boom box speakers measurements? ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
fas42 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 12 hours ago, STC said: In live performance you do not hear pristine direct sound but more of the ambiance which smoothen the peaks and dips. Here's someone who obviously hasn't stood on the footpath, right next to a marching band in full cry going past ... 😜. Yep, it must have been the nearby clouds that provided the ambiance which smooths the peaks and dips, 😉. Link to comment
STC Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share Posted November 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, fas42 said: Here's someone who obviously hasn't stood on the footpath, right next to a marching band in full cry going past ... 😜. Yep, it must have been the nearby clouds that provided the ambiance which smooths the peaks and dips, 😉. and I suppose your Toshiba laptop would drown the marching band sound. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
davide256 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Ralf11 said: Describe your system. Otherwise you are "giving us" nothing. Start with the speakers ummm... you don't share yours. Seems somewhat hypocritical/one sided to make that ask unless you reciprocate. I'm always for sharing system... usually helps to understand the authors reference point. sandyk 1 Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
sandyk Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, davide256 said: ummm... you don't share yours. Seems somewhat hypocritical/one sided to make that ask unless you reciprocate. I'm always for sharing system... usually helps to understand the authors reference point. Ralf11 has admitted to owning an Oppo 205, but beyond that nothing else AFAIK How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 you don't know very far AT ALL Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted November 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, davide256 said: ummm... you don't share yours. Seems somewhat hypocritical/one sided to make that ask unless you reciprocate. I'm always for sharing system... usually helps to understand the authors reference point. are you as stoopid as that post makes you seem??? try looking in my icon \ Audio System Damn! not to mention several threads I've started with pics of speaker layouts, room plans, etc. etc. marce and askat1988 2 Link to comment
sandyk Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: are you as stoopid as that post makes you seem??? Are you as as stoopid as your reply makes you appear ? You demanded those details from me in this thread , even though I have detailed my DIY gear on many occasions , including numerous internal photos , AND the details of MY system have always been available by looking in MY PROFILE. Duh ! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
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